Best Marine from a Legion

[Oiad]

Eh, I'd say it'd be closer but would still give it to Abaddon. Give Loken a first-class pick from the armoury too and then we'd have a fight! ;)

[Necris]

Wasn't Lucius "Enhanced" in his second bout with Loken aka super fast speed freak enhanced hence him beating Loken is seconds?

[MagicMan]

I think Loken would win because he could piss wine and had Vulcan Mega-Bolters for eyes.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

He was insinuating Loken was awesome because he was a precog. He wasn't a precog.

 

I can say Sigismund was the best because he was trained by the Emperor. Doesn't make it true.

Ah, my bad, that's what happens when you fail to read a post :( In that case, yeah, Loken was most definitely not a psyker.

[Kizzdougs]

Eh, I'd say it'd be closer but would still give it to Abaddon. Give Loken a first-class pick from the armoury too and then we'd have a fight! :)

 

I think Lucius was 'enhanced' after Istvaan which was well after his second bout with Loken. The reason he trashed Loken in the second fight was because Lucius was more focussed the second time. He was caught off guard in the first bout because of Loken's quick improvisation. Loken could never beat Lucius in a straight fight.

[Zynk Kaladin]

I think Loken would win because he could piss wine and had Vulcan Mega-Bolters for eyes.

 

^this

[Eetion]

There will only be one winner. The Captain of Effrit stealth squad...

 

Omegon... after all... he is just a normal marine... isnt he.... you know... Alpharius's 2nd. :)

[HamHamLunchbox]

Omegon... after all... he is just a normal marine... isnt he.... you know... Alpharius's 2nd. :)

 

not sure if serious,but alpharius and omegon are equal(one soul in two bodies) and none of them are normal space marines.

 

and the overall winner will be bjorn the fell-handed. hes still alive.more or less :)

[Lord Ragnarok]

Not only are you alone your straight wrong. Or does Alan Merrett need to ask you to stop with the crazy theories until it's all finally revealed.

 

Let's watch the venom in our discourse please.

[Eetion]

Omegon... after all... he is just a normal marine... isnt he.... you know... Alpharius's 2nd. :)

 

not sure if serious,but alpharius and omegon are equal(one soul in two bodies) and none of them are normal space marines.

 

and the overall winner will be bjorn the fell-handed. hes still alive.more or less :)

 

True.... but nobody else knows that do they :D As far as other Marines would be concerned, hes just ruthless, vicious and a skilled combatant. Hes just a Captain of the Stealth Squad.

[Oiad]

Eh, I'd say it'd be closer but would still give it to Abaddon. Give Loken a first-class pick from the armoury too and then we'd have a fight! ;)

 

I think Lucius was 'enhanced' after Istvaan which was well after his second bout with Loken. The reason he trashed Loken in the second fight was because Lucius was more focussed the second time. He was caught off guard in the first bout because of Loken's quick improvisation. Loken could never beat Lucius in a straight fight.

I think in a moment of zeal you quoted the wrong person there bud. Try again.

[Kizzdougs]

Eh, I'd say it'd be closer but would still give it to Abaddon. Give Loken a first-class pick from the armoury too and then we'd have a fight! :D

 

I think Lucius was 'enhanced' after Istvaan which was well after his second bout with Loken. The reason he trashed Loken in the second fight was because Lucius was more focussed the second time. He was caught off guard in the first bout because of Loken's quick improvisation. Loken could never beat Lucius in a straight fight.

I think in a moment of zeal you quoted the wrong person there bud. Try again.

 

Haha. True ;)

Thought for the day: Zeal is its own excuse (and i should pay a little more attention to what i'm doing).

[Clewz]

I'm going to chuck Ahriman into the mix on the basis he could predict each blow

[Greyall]

Clewz has a big point there, psykers have a good advantage, and even Khârn wasn't protected against them at this point. Ahriman can't use the "Go to Warp -> Rip soul" combo he employed against Wyrdmake in a straight fight, but his precognition would give him an edge against pretty much everyone. Plus, pure fighters tend to view psykers and such as more fragile and just run at them.

 

With all my dislike for Word Bearers (it's innate, I do get the deeper aspects of their rebellion), Argel Tal packs a mean punch, what with the all-cutting claws and regeneration.

 

I'd give my vote to Khârn, though. It's part fanboyism and part the fact that acting on pure impulse means a great improvement in reaction time, both offensive and evasive/defensive. Argel Tal would have a hard time against it - I'd say his dual personality is a disadvantage.

 

On Abaddon - I'm not disregarding his skills - he sounds like a walking tank. Big, strong, in terminator armour and basically the best wargear the legion can provide. I'm not sure how he'd fare against faster (Lucius) or frothing (Khârn, Argel Tal) adversaries.

[A D-B]

With all my dislike for Word Bearers (it's innate, I do get the deeper aspects of their rebellion), Argel Tal packs a mean punch, what with the all-cutting claws and regeneration.

 

He has wings now.

[Greyall]

He has wings now.

 

Oh, come on...

 

That's news, right? Don't recall that from First Heretic, though it's been a while since I read it.

 

It should make for some good skewering dives.

[Brannick]

Argel Tal - now with wings!

 

Ok, so don't go there........

[Perrin]

Back to Loken being a psyker... There are marines that only develop psyker powers much later in their lives (See Nick Kymes Salamander series) ... no reason that Loken couldn't be a psyker after Istvaan :rolleyes:

 

Branne of the Raven Guard, just because he is the only Heresy-era RG i know lol. Still thinking Lucius, Abbadon or Sevatar though. Maybe Ahriman as well jst because he's a psyker.

[Marshal Rohr]

Do you guys keep skipping the BLACK LIBRARY'S AUTHOR'S posts?

 

He is in on the meetings. Loken isnt a psyker.

[Perrin]

But Loken is Dan Abnetts character, so its up to him what happens to Loken. Plus ADB only said "Oh my, no" to the statement "he was also a powerful psyker". He doesnt come out and say No Loken is 100% not a psyker in any way, shape or form.

And another thing, he's a black library author means that he cant tell us the plotlines or twists of future books. He very kindly throws some hints around here and there sometimes but they are almost always about his own stories, not the works of other authors.

 

If ADB or any other BL author that is part of the HH team says that Loken is 100% not a psyker, that the idea was addressed and it was decided that he would never have any pysker powers then I'll be fine with that, but until then its still a matter up for debate and if people want to believe it or talk about it then noone has the right to completely shoot them down.

 

 

After all that, I don't actually think Loken is a psyker. But it is a fun idea. :lol:

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

After all that, I don't actually think Loken is a psyker. But it is a fun idea. :P

 

Finally someone throws me a bone.....

 

Well let me nudge your somewhat open mind my way.

 

I have been in the minority when it comes to ideas about Loken since he became a topic of discusion. Back when the thought that Loken might live past Isstvan III was thought to be crazy, i attempted to find evidence that proved he would live. It was HARD because his name was new and it was WELL known that there were no survivors of the ground war loyal to the Emperor. Undaunted, i felt if he did live, there would likely be some hints in other sources as to his fate. So i searched and searched for theses bread crumbs that might lead me through the forest. In the HH Collected Visions, a part that most here should now know about, there is a chapter ware Malcador brings in 12 hooded attendants.

'Sire, when last we met you commanded me to gather together a group of people whose loyalty to you and the Imperium was unquestioning. This I have done. I have worked long and hard to find those I thought would suit. I have personally overseen every aspect of the exhaustive test to which they have been subjected and can vouch for their character, loyalty and strength of their mind. They have many skills and will serve you well.'

 

Malcador gestured to the hooded figures behind him, as he did so four of them stepped forward and knelt before the Emperor. The Emperor nodded and acknowledgment of the their show of fealty to him.

 

'Sire, these others are known to you. Each of them is a Space Marine . They have cast aside their allegiance to Primarch and Legion who have sided with Horus and pledged themselves anew to you, their Emperor and father. I have chosen these eight since allied to their unflinching loyalty they each are blessed with paranormal skills, kept dormant in respect of your previous command. However these skills are most apt in combating the horrors that have recently emerged from the warp and I know they will be needed in the coming years'

 

'Malcador you have judged well, these eight Space Marines do indeed have a vital role to play in the future of the Imperium, though veiled in secrecy will they be.'

 

After reading this and putting it together with the other sources i had found, it seemed if Loken lived past Isstvaan III, he would likely be among these 8. Now, i think there are few would argue with me about this, even those who KNOW Loken is not a payker. Furthermore i felt that these 8 went on to found the Grey Knights, this was confirmed with the release of the new Grey Knight Codex. When i first started to propose this people said that Loken could not be one of the founders because he is not a psyker. And when it became more clear that he would indeed be 1 of the 8 they said well maybe the founders of the GK's were all not psykers, just the teachers of war and other non psyker stuff. The problem with this idea is that it completely ignores critical parts of the above quote.

 

1) I have personally overseen every aspect of the exhaustive test to which they have been subjected and can vouch for their character, loyalty and strength of their mind.

 

2) I have chosen these eight since allied to their unflinching loyalty they each are blessed with paranormal skills, kept dormant in respect of your previous command. However these skills are most apt in combating the horrors that have recently emerged from the warp and I know they will be needed in the coming years'

 

I feel if you agree that Loken IS 1 of the 8, then he to has strength of mind and is blessed with paranormal skills, kept dormant in respect of the Emps previous command. This command i think is the Edict of Nikaea. I searched for any information on what happend to the Librarians of the Luna Wolves, and found nothing. There is ZERO information on any psykers in the XVI legion. The only thing close i found was Mournival. The Mournival serves the purpose a Librarium in terms of giving council to their primarch. But that was it. No information on if there were psykers or what Horus did to them after Nikaea. That was odd to me. This alone though was not enough for me so i decided i would search the 1st 3 books again for any hints that would appear when looked at in the light that Loken was a psyker. I found a couple.

 

Loken vs Lucius #1

 

Loken joining the Mournival

 

Loken in the Whisperhead.

 

I know that most when they read these parts will not see what i do. Most will say all these things can be explained with non psyker abilities or the writer choosing words that i read to much into. I freely admit i am searching for information to prove my theory and may be bias overly. The same thing was said to me when i said Loken would live. There is NO WAY he could have lived though the Bombs, ect.

 

Now as for Mr A D-B, I will admit that his comments hear give me SERIOUS pause. It was his comments on his BLog that was the tipping point in the "is Loken alive" debate. Although he did not agree with how it happened, he made it CLEAR for any who would listen that Loken would be back. Though some would STILL not give in and go with me, most at least kept their thoughts to them selves. I have no doubt that IF Loken is indeed a psyker, that A D-B would have access to that info. I only can hope that i misinterpreted his comments and he was not blowing big holes in my idea.

[Marshal Rohr]

Those 8 may have been psykers but we don't know what purpose Loken serves in relation to those 8. Garro isn't psychic either. They may have been the ones tasked with collection the first grand masters. Loken could be made into a super assassin to hunt Horus. We dont know man. You keep hounding on it like it's fact but right now it's just theory. Talk about it like it's theory and people will be more open to it.

 

I have crazy theories too, but I don't hound on them as if they are canon.

[Billuriye]

Garro isn't psychic either.

 

This isn't so clear.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Garro isn't psychic either.

 

This isn't so clear.

 

Yeh.... I could point to a couple parts of FotI that hint Garro has some potential. When Garro reached Luna and had the stand off with the Sisters of Silence over Euphrati Keeler, i sensed some psyker type tension.

[Lord_Caerolion]

That's the thing though, a psyker being around a pariah isn't just some mild tension, the psyker will feel outright disgust, if not actual pain in their presence. They aren't nice to be around at the best of times, let alone when you're a psyker. So yeah, Garro isn't psychic, or if he is, he's very very minorly psychic, like "deja vu" levels of psychic.