hushrong Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Nice to see you back at it! Going to check out that GoFundMe page on my next payday! Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5176121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 I've shared your GoFundMe on FB, and will whack some cash in myself once I work out what my budgets looking like. Dragonlover Nice to see you back at it! Going to check out that GoFundMe page on my next payday! Thanks for the shout out. I'm not on FB or other platforms yet and don't really need more on my plate right now, so the added publicity is appreciated. The GoFundMe is a slow burn kind of thing that I don't expect to grow too quickly at first, so take your time and please only invest what's within your budget. The hours I'm getting at the college are helping the bottom line so I'm just letting it build in the background while I get to work on some stuff that I can update the campaign with while I try to draw more attention to it and the studio in general. *Snip* I like the couplings -- look great. I did something similar but with less finess on mine. *makes note to get some plastruct tubes with inner diameters that match magnet sizes* Yes! The plastic tubes have completely spoiled me when it comes to mounting magnets. They make it so easy to create a perfect seat for any size magnet at any depth and since they're styrene they fuse with the model really well. Well worth the investment for the saved time alone, but the precision is a great perk too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5176464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 I also kicked a little bit towards your GoFundMe. I'm looking forward to seeing what's coming next! Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5176590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarabando Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 any update on the kastalax bits? Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5177190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 The Kastelan components will arrive in the near future, but they needed to be put on hold for a bit. I did do a first print, but I made a rookie mistake and didn’t mix the resin properly and they didn’t turn out. They printed, but the geometry is all wrong the surfaces are sticky and refuse to cure properly. I also made a mistake in the length of the ammo feeds and made them too short. Since it’s still a personal project I just need to put it aside while I work on current studio projects. Expect to see them and the Dragoons around the same time. The larger components are really cutting it close, but they fit! The first test prints are done for these Tracks and Siege Ram and there are a few issues that I need to deal with. Adding the supports used during printing really is a bit of an art and I’m still perfecting the process; there are a few spots where the parts didn’t form quite right and naturally that’s no good. I’m also getting used to fit tolerances and just how small gaps can be in parts that are meant to fit together. The Siege Ram goes together nicely, but the Tracks are far too tight so they needed a bit of tweaking. Beyond the minor issues, everything is looking great. As kits get larger I’ll need to get more creative with how I’ll split things up to fit the limits of Solus, but for now, that’s not going to be an issue. Once these kits are perfected, the first Armour kits are up next. I’ll get Servitor Solus back to work and then I’ll do another quick update with some images of the actual prints on the Rhino. TheOneTrueZon, DuskRaider and Dantay VI 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5177637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus b'Raass Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Looks good. Query: why does one of the parts on the ram and one of the track parts appear as blue, while the rest of the parts are in grey? Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5177980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maarten Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Looks good. Query: why does one of the parts on the ram and one of the track parts appear as blue, while the rest of the parts are in grey? Going to take a quick guess at this since I was wondering the same thing: Can't/forgot to de-select. For the tracks are you using the same piece for the top and bottom or are there more parts you can't fit on there? Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5178052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffTibbetts Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Grrr! Ok life, enough distractions! *sigh* With a plumbing problem mostly sorted out, for now, it’s time to get back on track; ah, the joys of home mortgage-ship – you don’t own it yet, but you gotta’ keep it all working. Fun fun! *mutters* With home maintenance, B&C down, a holiday weekend out of the city, work at the college, and other random distractions or delays, I’ve lost my focus a bit. However, I do have my GoFundMe campaign finally set up for those who might be in a position to make an investment in the future of the studio, and I’ve also started posting images over on Pinterest for anyone who is more interested in the visuals of Legion Rising and The Dark Works without all the rambling. Both will be getting regular updates as I get settled back into a proper routine again. It’s time to get out of this funk I’m finding myself in and start pushing outside of my comfort zones again, both creatively and with regards to exposure. I’ve got to get 3D modelling again and get on with marketing the studio more seriously. The next batch of kits is 90% 3D modelled but they’re going to be larger and consume more materials to produce so I’ve been a bit hesitant; 3D modelling can also be a bit of a trap for me, since I enjoy it so much it’s easy to get enthralled by it and spend too much time on projects that are before their time. Expect to see several new kits sooner rather than later and hopefully, the pace will continue to maintain and increase. On the flip side, I’m getting ready to start contacting some hubs of the hobby in an effort to introduce myself and The Dark Works to a larger audience, with the plan being to tie it in with my next round of kits and models. Any help to spread the word, offer suggestions, input, or feedback would be most welcome. It’s one thing to post W.I.P. articles in smaller corners of the internet but now I’ve got to kick myself in the pants to get out and take this to the next level. I’m eagerly dreading this on some level, but I’ll get over it… I think. Not much choice, really. Being an oh so tempting distraction that I’m better off without, for now, I’m going to put my personal projects on the back burner for the next while. Coming into the final stretch with building, the glimmer of a distant light at the end of the tunnel is starting to become visible. I’ll get back to rationing more time to my personal projects in a while, but for now here’s a little more progress on the Onager Spearhead Detachment for the list. Holy tons of fiddly bits Batman! Cables, and ladders, and guardrails, oh my! Looks like we’ll need to build our way out! Finally getting close to completing them, and yep, the Onager is a great model, but there’s a reason why the Mechanicus line looks so great, and it’s all the flippin’ bits-and-pieces that need to be dealt with! The bulk of the build is done, but there are still so many damn bits to actually get it properly finished I’m kinda’ glad I’m giving it a break for a bit. One small tweak to the build so far that I’m particularly pleased with is adding the additional Heavy Stubber under the hull in the provided groove. It’ll need a bit of scratch building to connect it in a more complete way, but it’s all mostly hidden from sight so it’ll be a simple enough job. I’m also going to replace the reactor on the back, the convex detail on the weapons, and the armour plates on the legs with custom 3D printed bits similar to the Dragoons, but that’s another article for another day. With the Kastelan ‘Bots cleaned up and ready for assembly these are the last of the models required for the first 1,850 center to the collection. Once these are done the final stretch really is to get paint on the second half(ish) of the army. I’ve got some close combat units waiting their turn and already have an urge to get back to the Knight/s to add some additional flexibility to the list, but I’m really looking forward to getting this main block done. I managed to damage the rear hull plate on one of the Onagers and figured I’d roll with it and add some more superficial damage to the model. I have a rule that when I drop something, I don’t roll my chair as I try to find the bit I just dropped. Odds are slim, but soon-or-later you will roll over the component you just dropped as it lands in a blind spot behind the wheel of the chair. Sure enough, I was lax and managed to do just that, flattening half of the rivets and imprinting the cement floor texture into the part. The rivets I can replace, but it looks like this one is going to be an experiment; I had planned on adding some dings, dents, and scratches to the feet of all of the Onagers but since this happened I figured I’d rough this one up some more to see how it turns out. I’m of two minds about it at this point. I’m worried that I’ve overdone it and I’m not going to like it once it’s painted. Or, that I’m going to like it too much when it’s finished and want to do more with the same treatment. In an attempt to get somewhat authentic looking minor dents and scratches I was very careful how I applied the damage. It’s a bit of a time-consuming process so I want to see if I can make it work before I subject other models to the process. I knew I wanted custom decals for this project, but I wasn’t looking forward to doing all the layout, thanks to my hobby-OCD. I can’t really completely finish the models until this step is done, so I had to get it over with soon-or-later. The small is 4x4mm for infantry, the medium is 6x6mm for light vehicles/’bots, and the large is 8x8mm for larger vehicles/’bots. I’m also working on a second sheet with the complete Atrum Laboris icon including the cog and text in various sizes and iterations for general use, but I’ve only just started work on that sheet. A somewhat tedious but necessary final step that will soon be done. More updates coming from the studio soon, as I administer the rights of activation to Servitor Solus and get back to making the next round of new kits. Time to get over the anxiety and get things really going. I’ve got the skills, tools, and ideas, what the heck am I waiting for? Stay tuned… Where are you getting these printed? I need some bone-colored decals for my Angels Eradicant some day. I got some white decals for the Eagle Eyes, of course. I'm pretty happy with them but I don't want to work with that company anymore... Looking for an alternative. Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5178150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 Looks good. Query: why does one of the parts on the ram and one of the track parts appear as blue, while the rest of the parts are in grey? Looks good. Query: why does one of the parts on the ram and one of the track parts appear as blue, while the rest of the parts are in grey? Going to take a quick guess at this since I was wondering the same thing: Can't/forgot to de-select. For the tracks are you using the same piece for the top and bottom or are there more parts you can't fit on there? Yeah, Maarten has it, the software always has one part selected and there’s no way to completely unselect all parts. So it’s merely cosmetic, but it annoys me when I’m taking a screenshot. The parts you see are a complete set of tracks for one side of the Rhino chassis. There are unique parts for the front and the back, but the three links that rise up from the long base length are pretty much interchangeable, and the parts that curve around only fit the tracks in one direction, if that makes sense. There 2 parts for the front, 1 long length for the base/bottom, and 2 parts for the back; the complete kit will have 10 parts. *Snip* Where are you getting these printed? I need some bone-colored decals for my Angels Eradicant some day. I got some white decals for the Eagle Eyes, of course. I'm pretty happy with them but I don't want to work with that company anymore... Looking for an alternative. I was thinking I'd contact Fallout Hobbies for the decal printing. I'm doing all the layout so it seems to be a simple matter of laying it out and handing it off. I haven't contacted them yet since I'm still getting the second sheet complete and still contemplating just what I want to be printed. While there was a bit of deformation in a few spots on the Siege Ram it didn’t affect any of the final fit, which turned out perfectly. Forever difficult to photograph, I think I’m starting to get it with this bright red resin. The more light you hit it with the better, giving the details a bit more contract. It’s still a rather washed out, but it helps some. In the near future, I’ll be switching using a lower cost grey resin for test prints and that should help considerably when it comes to photographing experiments and test prints. I just need to change up how I do the supports on the Siege Ram but otherwise its good-to-go. Basically, some of the corners and a few edges were deformed because I didn’t make the supports dense enough. I’ve got the hang of it for the most part, but there’s obviously still a bit of trial-and-error for some things. The Tracks had some issues with the fit of the links where the parts connect but they fit the model nicely and the Siege Ram cooperates too. The links in the Tracks were way too tight (even managed to break one) and required lots of filing to get them to fit nicely. Since I modelled these before I had a chance to get any of my designs 3D printed, let along before I got Servitor Solus, it’s to be expected really. I’m mostly pleased with how well all of the parts fit on the Rhino chassis since that tells me that the 3D model that I used to build kits is accurate enough for the task. The upcoming Armour kits will be the next test for how accurate the base model is. Since the Siege Ram doesn’t need to actually conform to the model like the tracks it’s much more straightforward to get the fit right and provide proper clearance. In this case, I’m glad to see how well Solus handled the thick slab that makes up the front ram. That bodes well for future slabs of armour and the like. They’ll gobble up a lot of resin to be printed but shouldn’t have any problems with accuracy. The next test print of the tracks was able to catch up with this update so here’s a look at the final fit and finish of the two kits. With a few tweaks to the design, the second run of the tracks was much better. Just look at that fit! Thank you, Solus! Now I just need to get the masters printed with the gates and sprue attached, ready for casting. Same goes for the Siege Ram which will be the first up to get sent off to Servitor Solus. As mentioned, once I get these masters printed properly expect to see some test prints for the first larger Armour kit for the Rhino/Predator, and perhaps a few weapon systems as a brief diversion after that, before turning my gaze towards the venerable Land Raider chassis. I’m going to try to push my modelling skills with the some of the Armour concepts, so stay tuned as I start to experiment with some warp-touched inspiration, once I’m sure of the fit with the starting concepts. hushrong, Eldrick Shadowblade, TheOneTrueZon and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5178167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maarten Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Yeah, Maarten has it, the software always has one part selected and there’s no way to completely unselect all parts. So it’s merely cosmetic, but it annoys me when I’m taking a screenshot. The parts you see are a complete set of tracks for one side of the Rhino chassis. There are unique parts for the front and the back, but the three links that rise up from the long base length are pretty much interchangeable, and the parts that curve around only fit the tracks in one direction, if that makes sense. There 2 parts for the front, 1 long length for the base/bottom, and 2 parts for the back; the complete kit will have 10 parts. I'm glad you haven't reached the point of "taking 2 screenshots with different parts selected so you can photoshop them together"-route yet.(I'm also sorry for implanting that idea in your mind.) My stupid head is still so stuck in my own land raider track design that I forgot standard GW SM tanks have half covered tracks..... That rhino ram looks AMAZING btw. Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5178189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus b'Raass Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) Holy SMaking Siege Ram, Batman, that ram is looking mighty schmexy. It's a bit of a shame I already have three FW siege rams lined up for my three Death Guard rhinos - otherwise I would have definitely gone for these to go with the chaos Land Raider siege ram I bought off you years ago. Anyway - I have some ore ideas for Servitor Solus, having to do with Armigers. 1. How's about a pair of shin plates (like KrautScientist made from the bloodthirster vambraces) in place of the weird ankle protecting thingies. 2. A new top armour plate? 3. Crow's feet. The triple toed feet of the Armigers right now look stupid, and it'd be a relatively easy manner to make something similar to what some guy on Shapeways has done - he calls it wolf's feet, but I mean something with proper claws. Hidden Content Edited October 23, 2018 by Augustus b'Raass Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5178732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Internal dialogue between me and myself: Johnny, you have quite a few rhino STC tanks already, right? Yep. All built but none of them are even painted, right? Yep. And I am guessing you want more now just so you can use those sweet bits Subtle just showed, right? YARP! Subtle Discord, Augustus b'Raass and RolandTHTG 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5179571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted October 27, 2018 Author Share Posted October 27, 2018 [Angel has knocked out Michael] Simon Skinner: [on walkie-talkie] Michael, are you there? Nicholas Angel: [pretending to be Michael] Yarp... Simon Skinner: Sergeant Angel's been taken care of? Nicholas Angel: Yarp... Simon Skinner: He's not going to get back up again? [Angel thinks for a while] Nicholas Angel: [hesitantly] Narp? Simon Skinner: Good. Proceed to the castle. Dosjetka, hushrong and robofish7591 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5179875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 hushrong, Biohazard, Subtle Discord and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5179879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 Hello, boys and girls This is your old pal Stinky Wizzleteats This is a song about a whale No! This is a song about being happy! That's right! It's the Happy Happy Joy Joy song! Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy! I don't think you're happy enough That's right! I'll teach you to be happy! I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs! Now, boys and girls, let's try it again Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy! If'n you ain't the granddaddy of all liars! Think of the little critters of nature... They don't know that they're ugly! That's very funny! A fly marrying a bumblebee! I told you I'd shoot! But you didn't believe me! Why didn't you believe me? Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy! I think I’ll just leave this right here. The first attempts at some larger components are finally finished, and they’re looking goooood! Top: The first print attempt met with some… difficulties. Bottom: With improved fortune, the second try was much more successful and looks great on the Rhino. While a gift from the Omnissiah, Servitor Solus still comes with some quirks and eccentricities in its machine spirit. Rush the process and the odds increase that problems will arise, but even if everything is prepared properly sometimes something unexpected will still happen. In this case, Solus just… stopped… mid-print for no reason that I could figure out, but a reset and restart got to the desired results. It seems I’ll need to be more diligent in my rights of preparation, operation, and maintenance with Solus in order to keep its spirit cooperative. While it looks very good in this photo, this was a test print and it really illustrated some changes to the design that are required. I’ll post another update with more images and a longer ramble once I get more adjustments done and iterate a little more. The fit and finish are gorgeous, now it just needs a little more refinement. robofish7591, Khornestar, Brother-Chaplain Kage and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5180861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDuderino Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Man that looks great! I happen to have a rhino and a land raider lying around semi-built, will therebe a kit for a land raider as well? If so, sign me up for one of each:) Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5180877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarabando Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 *sits quietly waiting for bits to make a grav rhino for his sisters* Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5180912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus b'Raass Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Holy crap that looks schmexy!Keep this up and you'll have a returning customer from the Hive Slums of Amsterdam. Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5180926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 What a time to be alive. Augustus b'Raass and Subtle Discord 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5180994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) Wow, dude. I don’t know how you can top yourself with the chaos vehicle kits but you’ve done it. If you make a commercial kit for that one, I’m super down. And any land raider equivalent. Edited October 29, 2018 by Juggernut Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5181040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 Man that looks great! I happen to have a rhino and a land raider lying around semi-built, will therebe a kit for a land raider as well? If so, sign me up for one of each:) Yes! Once I get a starting series of Rhino kits done I'll be moving on to the Land Raider chassis and giving it the same treatment. I'm so pleased with how the lighter spaced armour concept is turning out I'll be starting with similar kits for the 'Raider. In the future, I'll revisit models to expand the selection available to do different version/themes/styles and to create completely new designs. So, with the Rhino/Predator and the Land Raider, right now I want to do Light 'Spaced' Armour and Heavy Armour kits for both, along with different themes/styles in each to suit the builder's need. *sits quietly waiting for bits to make a grav rhino for his sisters* A Grav' Rhino concept is on the digital drawing board... or, it will be very soon. Given that Atrum Laboris is not adverse to considering unsanctioned paths to innovation and improvement, I think I've got an interesting idea for my take on the concept. Stay tuned, this will likely turn up along with the current batch of Rhino/Predator kits in development. Holy crap that looks schmexy! Keep this up and you'll have a returning customer from the Hive Slums of Amsterdam. I have absolutely no intention to stop, so yeah... I still have no idea how quickly things will arrive at first, but I have a list of ideas as long as my arm right now, so this really is just the beginning. What a time to be alive. I know, right? I can take an idea in my head, realize it digitally, create it physically, replicate it, and disseminate it around the globe. The technology, materials, and infrastructure of today are simply amazing. I still can't help but look at some of the bits I make and mutter "Damn! I can't believe I made that and I'm holding it right now! " Wow, dude. I don’t know how you can top yourself with the chaos vehicle kits but you’ve done it. If you make a commercial kit for that one, I’m super down. And any land raider equivalent. Oh, this will be produced for The Dark Works, that's for sure. These are just the test prints to work out any kinks and tolerances before I create the casting masters with gates and sprues attached. Even the bits I've been doing for my Mechanicus builds are likely going to become production kits, but there are more popular models to design for first. My earlier work was good, but scratch building comes with limitations that are completely removed with digital creation so I'm free to do more curves, angles, and details that were simply too labour intensive to create from scratch. If you like what you see so far, just wait, since this is a large 'canvas' I'm going to try my hand at a version with some light warp-touched mutation. I'm going to start reasonably simple/traditional and see if I can create some spines and ridges stabbing and tearing through the surface. I need to start to figure out how to do such things, so this seems like a good kit to start on and make a nice showcase for the kinds of directions I hope future kits can go in. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5181165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDuderino Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Warp touched tank armor you say? Color me intrigued! I don't think we've seen that sort of details from you earlier, it'll be very interesting to see where you go with it anyways! Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5181355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! It’s so beautiful!! Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5181407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Eldrick Shadowblade, Khornestar, Dragonlover and 9 others 12 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5185410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Wow... now that's a change from your usual design. Awesome! Subtle Discord 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page/66/#findComment-5185420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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