Grey Knights in 6th Edition

[spartan249]

Welcome to my personal overview and pseudo-guide to the Grey Knights in 6th Edition! I am writing this partly because I want to enrich the community as a whole and partly because I'm tired of typing/lecturing on the same topics over and over again, and just want to write it down once in reference format to save myself some work. This is a living document as the game will no doubt change as time goes on, so I'll be sure to hang around and make adjustments/corrections as they become necessary.

I'm always open to suggestions and requests to cover certain topics as long as they are consistent with the purpose of this article. Please do not hesitate to ask.

 

Overview

- Individual Unit Analysis
- Strategic approaches to achieving objectives
- Synergistic Tactics/Strategies
- Maneuver Tactics as applied to GKs
- GKs and Allies
- Strategic considerations for each match-up

If you do not know what the term OPFOR means, it basically stands for Opposing Force and refers to your opponent's army and opponent as a collective entity. With that out of the way, let's get started.

 

Individual Unit Analysis

HQs

Kaldor Draigo. Need I say more? ... Ok, fine. Draigo is here for one reason: Making Paladins work. His improved statline, Eternal Warrior, and Storm Shield make sure that the Paladins are mostly shielded from harm for at least a turn or two of dedicated firepower, which is hopefully all you need. Combine this with good old Grand Strategy for some more force multiplication, and you're looking at a surprisingly useful HQ for the hefty price tag. While I wouldn't recommend using Draigo without Paladins, the stuff he gets over a generic Grand Master can sometimes warrant his use for either his directional shield tactics or as a distraction via deepstriking with an accompanying squad into the backfield and causing trouble, depending on the overall style of your chosen methods.

Mordrak is a distraction through and through. His abilities and retinue are tailored for this use, and given the right conditions, he can cause a bit of damage before he is destroyed. The biggest detractor from him and his retinue is that he has basically no ranged firepower to apply on the drop. Just as good, as he probably has the most reliable deep strike I've ever seen. However, you can attach a single Independent Character to get some more hitting power. Most popular one I've seen is the Librarian with Warp Rift. I don't approve of this plan though because this means that your warlord has basically been given up as forfeit for the distraction, automatically putting you behind on VPs. Overall, I'd say Mordrak should only show up for fluff lists.

Stern... I have a very hard time seeing how he could be a good idea in any list. He's not a Grand Master, he has a double edged offensive power, and he's super expensive for not that much hitting power. Unless you really want to use him because you like his model, I'd avoid Stern like the plague.

Crowe is one of those HQs that I really want to like, but just can't. On the one hand, he makes one of the best generalist units in the codex your troops choice, has a cleansing flame that makes terminators cringe, and has Heroic Sacrifice for use as deterrence. On the other hand... he's always alone. Not having the ability to join squads pretty much sucks all the useful tactical applications out of Crowe, making it basically a miracle if he makes it into combat. About the best you can ask out of Crowe is that he hide close to your home objective and dare your opponent to try to take it from him.

Grey Knight Grand Masters are the go-to option for those who want to stay pure Grey Knight and want to avoid Special Characters. While he's essentially a generalist HQ that pays quite a bit for it, his force multiplier ability in Grand Strategy makes this flaw forgivable. Equip him according to what role he is going to play and watch him go.

Grey Knight Brother Captains are absolutely worthless. The existence of the Grand Master makes Brother Captains obsolete, as they are both exactly the same statwise and equipment wise. Don't bother.

Brotherhood Champions are the bargain pure GK HQ for use in smaller games or with certain strategies. While his ranged output is outright pathetic, his close combat game is where it's at. On defense, Brotherhood Champions basically deny the enemy the use of their heavy hitter HQs, sometimes even neutralizing them with Heroic Sacrifice. On offense, he can use the challenge system to make sure that your squad does not eat sergeant power fists or serious single model melee threats like the Swarmlord. Incidentally, they can also ensure that you "save" an enemy model from death while your killer squad eliminates the opposition. Of course, this is bound to work only once, as the opponent will most likely wise up and not accept the challenge (unless you're chaos... sucka~), but there it is. While the Brotherhood Champion is a limited force multiplier, the advent of challenges put Brotherhood Champions back on the roster of useful HQs, ironically as one of the best close combat choices in the codex.

Librarians are the classic Force Multiplier HQ. Librarians are most effective in armies that consist of many different units working close together, as his Area of Effect powers get exponentially more effective. As long as anti-psyker rules are not in play, the Librarian can cover the lack of the more exotic Nemesis Force Weapons as well as providing defensive boosts. If your chosen powers aren't effective in your match-up, the option to take Divination instead is a welcome addition to the Librarian's options, as this table abounds with force multipliers. It's not all good though: Inquisitors have much cheaper access to the Divination powers. If you have no plans on using the Grey Knights specific powers, pass on the Librarian, as your points are spent better elsewhere.

Coteaz is hands down the most efficient named HQ in this codex. He unlocks the most deadly specialist units in the codex as troops, adds some reliability against seize the initiative, is Mastery Level 2 (?!), and has a hard counter for danger close deep striking units. Throw him in with a warband designed for shooting, roll up some divination powers, and force multiply away. Henchmen are already ridiculously deadly for their point cost. Prescience, Perfect Timing, and Misfortune increase their hitting power to epic proportions. While the Librarian technically has the same access to these force multipliers, you're paying 1.5 times more and losing all the special benefits Coteaz offers.

Karazamov offers a little bit of a wild card to Grey Knight players. He's expensive, but he's pretty tough and has quite a bit of wargear (as well as the rare Multi-Melta, not bad). The biggest standout feature of Karazamov is no doubt his Orbital Strike Relay in conjunction with By Any Means Necessary. By using specific units, you can ply the OSR to great effect, effectively neutralizing light/medium infantry and getting enemy troops terrified of engaging your flanking forces. IMO, this OSR is the only one worth taking.

Valeria is a bit of an oddball in the roster. She can be decently deadly in close combat and very short range, but she contributes basically nothing else to the army. Valeria is never seen for a good reason.

The Generic Inquisitors offer a lot for the ridiculously low price tag they boast. Inquisitors have all the tools they need to perform the role you want them to perform. Ordo Malleus does decently well at mid-range, Ordo Xenos can perform both at long range and as the ultimate close combat force multiplier, and Ordo Hereticus can provide some laughs. Equip to your heart's content and be content in the knowledge that you spent a heck of a lot less on your HQ then most players spend on single model elite choices.
 

Elites

Techmarines are good for two uses: close combat force multiplier via grenades and Hammerhand and Beamer guy. Bolster Defenses is an added bonus, but relying on this facet of the Techmarine became much less fruitful thanks to the FAQ reverting valid targets to only ruins. Consider the point expenditure very seriously before including the Techmarine.

Purifiers are extremely good for the points you pay. Veteran statline, Cleansing Flame, unprecedented access to cheap heavy weapon options, cheap force weapon upgrade options... It's rather hard to find reasons why Purifiers are bad. The only real drawback that Purifiers have is their lack of the ability to Deep Strike, forcing you to get a Rhino or Stormraven to transport them. Otherwise, there is basically nothing Purifiers can not do. Plant them in Midfield and watch the carnage ensue.

Venerable Dreadnoughts... don't even bother. Worthless.

Paladins get lambasted as expensive all the time, but they are surprisingly cheap given what they gain over regular Terminators. Paladins make the ideal Shock unit due to their durability and increased psycannon firepower. Due to their nature, Paladins are extremely vulnerable to Instant Death weapons, especially those of the Large Blast variety. Exercise sensible positioning, and your Paladins should serve you well enough.

The Temple Assassins are, for the most part, extremely niche in application and generally not recommended. The Vindicare Assassin is probably the most useful due to his ability to nearly automatically inflict penetrating hits on vehicles. What kills Vindicare Assassins as an option is their inability to deal with cover IMO, as each successful cover save accentuates how many points you spent on a model that does so little every turn. Thanks to the buff to Deadeye for the Vindicare, he may very well be worth it enough to take if you also have a bolstered ruin or other natural 3+ cover to stick him in. I suggest trying the assassins out via proxy first, and I'd especially recommend the Vindicare if you're having trouble dealing with armor via other sources like Stormravens or Mortis Dreads.

Henchmen Warbands are the hidden gold in this codex. They are simultaneously the most powerful close combat unit and the most powerful ranged unit in the army. For the most part, this unit is a glass cannon and is highly reliant on cover/positioning to survive battles, so careless use of them will see them leave the board in a hurry. They are best used as either a firebase to support a main GK offensive with overwhelming firepower or as a flanking close combat monster that devours whatever it charges. They make very little impact on your point total for the amount of offensive capability they afford you. I highly suggest you consider at least one (maybe two) of these to fill a void in your list.
 

Troops

Terminator Squads pale in comparison to Paladins both in point efficiency, real firepower potential, and staying power. They do not, however, require an extremely expensive Draigo to perform their role, so they are sufficient in a pinch. While I don't suggest these as your mainstay troops, you can most certainly make them work, as they are reasonably effective in any mode of combat.

Grey Knight Strike Squads are the all round solid choice for non henchmen armies. Reasonably durable, good point to firepower ratio, and options at the strategic level of planning. Warp Quake provides a great defense against deep strikers, which coincidentally stops some diversions from working as intended. Outside of Henchmen, Strike Squads provide the most Storm Bolters for your points, and I say you can never have too many of those. While not as flashy as Purifiers, Paladins, or Henchmen, they can certainly work just well enough.
 

Fast Attack

Stormravens are a must have in your army if you are not taking allies to handle anti-air. We may have been able to get by barely by ignoring fliers so far, but now that the Heldrake is flying around with a torrenting Flamestorm Cannon, that's not much of an option anymore. These may not be as generally potent as their C:BA counterparts, but they are flexible enough to serve as both an Interdictor and as an Assault Transport. Mindstrike Missiles also provide a good way to take offending psykers off the table merely by hitting them, making some match-ups more tolerable for you.

Interceptor Squads make ideal flanking forces due to their self-sufficient mobility. Other then their teleporters, they are rather unremarkable in close combat. Use with care, as each death will be very poignant with the amount of points you spend.
 

Heavy Support

Purgation Squads are only marginally useful in 6th edition given the exorbitant price on Psycannons and barely useful Astral Aim ability. However, Purgation Squads are unique in that they have access to Incinerators for free. A small unit of 5 with 4 Incinerators can make an interestingly cheap and devastating harassment unit to mount up in a Stormraven or Rhino/Razorback. A librarian casting the Summoning in conjunction with a mystic can get some pinpoint fire on whatever you need softened up. Overall, it's a bit of a redundant unit, so I'd think twice before taking any Purgation squads.

Dreadnoughts still have a tiny bit of merit left in 6th edition simply because of Reinforced Aegis and the Psybolt upgrade. While they're not exactly durable anymore thanks to Hull Points, they are cheap enough to not really care as much. Visually isolate, and you should be fine using them.

Dreadknights have gained quite a second wind with 6th edition, as we now have challenges to single out deadly weapons in combat and higher durability vs power weapons. Depending on how you equip them, they'll serve well as either a cheap diversion/objective cleanser or as a hunter/bully, picking off isolated units on the flanks. Achieve local superiority and Dreadknights should serve you well enough.

Land Raiders occupy a curious position in 6th edition. While they have gotten much more vulnerable to anti-armor weapons, the overall shift of the meta has seen the emergence of full squads and high body count armies, thus many have started taking medium strength high ROF weaponry instead of single shot high strength weaponry. Thus, taking LRs can catch some unprepared, giving you the advantage in a situation where the opponent has no ability to tailor. Of course, the possibility of this actually happening is slim, so I wouldn't bank on it. Not everything is bad though. The LR has gotten slightly faster thanks to Flat Out moves, so it should reduce the time it takes to reach a viable target. However, Stormravens provide similar transport capacity and vastly faster speeds at the expense of high risk. Not generally recommended, but it can work if you play your cards right.
 

Strategies for achieving objectives

Before I go into detail, I should cover some basic concepts that occur very frequently in tactics for elite armies.

Local Superiority is what I call a situation where your forces are overwhelmingly better then your opponent's immediately available assets. This can be brought about either by using terrain to visually isolate a part of the OPFOR or by simply positioning yourself so that the OPFOR is effectively blocked off by it's own bulk.

Overwhelming Strike is what I call the act of focusing your offense on a single unit/part of the OPFOR. Part of enacting this is understanding your effective range (This is a function of your equipment's basic range and your ability to maneuver) and setting up different range bands so that your army is able to focus their fire without getting in each other's way.

With these in mind, let's go into Grey Knight specific strategies.

As I see it, Grey Knights have plenty of ways of achieving Victory. First, there's the pure counter type army (Henceforth known as the Water type army). Second, there's the total victory type army (Fire type). Third, there's the rolling thunder type army (Earth/Fire hybrid type). Fourth, there's the surgical strike type army (Air type). What I will do is outline the Modus Operandi of each archetype and general guidelines on what to focus on during list creation. What I will not do is give specific directions on how to achieve said guidelines, as that is up to the player to perform.

Water type armies focus on supreme tactical versatility for the end goal of engaging in the type of combat where the OPFOR is weakest in the position that is most compromising to the OPFOR. Troops in this type of army will usually aim to be self-sufficient and able in all phases of the turn. Players using this type of army must be on top of pertinent knowledge about all other codices in the game so that they are able to successfully identify the nature and probable strategy/tactics employed by the OPFOR and bring units that are able to take advantage of openings and weaknesses shown. While it's not a requirement for all the units in the army to be extremely mobile, it's usually a good idea, as mobility is required to get into position efficiently and quickly. Typically, Power Armored Grey Knights and Grey Knight Terminators make up the bulk of the forces, as they embody true tactical flexibility with mobile firepower, decent close combat potential, and the ability to deep strike for the most part. Support forces will also want to be somewhat mobile in order to maneuver to positions where they are needed (Note that mobility is an amalgamation of Range + Speed).

Fire type armies want one thing: Total annihilation of the OPFOR. Troops in this type of army focus on bringing as much destructive capability as possible at the cost of all else. This type of army is probably the easiest type of army to play, as you simply advance and shoot/charge whatever is foolish enough to cross your path. Typically, Henchmen feature prominently in army lists like this, as their offensive capabilities are unparalleled in this codex. Support forces will consist of a combination of two types: Units that contribute even more firepower to the army, and units that help preserve the combat effectiveness of the main army.

Earth/fire type armies aim to engage and outlast the OPFOR in a straight up fight. Troops in this type of army want enough durability to require more then a light breeze to destroy, but want to put enough firepower out that entire enemy units have the potential of being annihilated quickly. Purifiers embody this type quite iconically, though GKT/PAGKs can also serve the same purpose. Support forces should catch flanking forces and neutralize them, allowing the Troops to engage and push through the OPFOR's mainstay force without having to worry about flanking attacks. Additionally, since the Troops in this type of list will not normally have the ability to deep strike, support forces should either provide the means for those troops to reach the backfield quickly or be able to engage backfield elements that are out of reach of the Troops.

Air type armies utilize the extreme speed that C:GK offers in order to outmaneuver the OPFOR and hit the flanks/isolated units using the concepts of Local Superiority and Overwhelming Strike to divide and conquer. This type of army is highly reliant on the opponent's mistakes and the terrain situation, as either condition not being in your favor will quickly result in you losing the momentum and very quickly losing your victory conditions as a result. Armies of this type consist almost entirely of units that are capable of moving more then 12" a turn and of destroying almost any typical equivalent unit outright using whatever means necessary. I don't personally think this archetype is a good idea at all, as this type of list is highly susceptible to being blindsided by a list well suited to consolidating in a single position and negating local superiority, but far be it from me to dissuade people from running lists how they want.

No matter what type of list you are running, you want to consider ways of achieving the secondary objectives reliably. While Slay the Warlord is more or less up to the Wheel of Fate to decide, you should aim to 1: make your warlord as hard to reach as possible, and 2: make sure that you maximize your chances of claiming first blood. While these should not be paramount in your considerations, you should not completely forget them, as Secondary Objectives turn out to be the final straw so often it's not even funny.
 

Synergetic Tactics/Strategies

No army is a simple list of units doing their own thing (unless it's incompetently created...), and there are many combinations of different units in C:GK that combine with each other to affect successful projection of force. In this section, I'll detail all the different tricks I use and know of.

Karazamov + Dreadknight
This is a simple combination that counters screening and fixing tactics used against the Dreadknight and gives you the ability to lay down the hurt on an enemy unit that you need damaged/removed ASAP in a given turn. If you're using Dreadknights, I'd highly suggest you try to find some room for Karazamov, as he greatly increases your tactical options and provides operational security.

Paladins & Coteaz + Strike Squads
Paladins have a bit of a weakness to getting flanked and hit from the rear, as us paladin players might have noticed. If you know you're going to get hit by deep strikers, try doing this.

Paladins advance up to midfield and do their thing. Make sure Coteaz is positioned as far back as you are comfortable with. Then, have your strike squads positioned so that their warp quake bubble covers everything but a 12" zone behind the Paladins.

This creates a situation that is enticing for deep strikers. There is a relatively safe zone behind the paladins to deep strike and hit, but they have to not mishap and survive the IBEY shooting attack to pull it off. Usually, this is sufficient to dissuade the more cautious players, but some of the braver players will take that chance. There is very little chance of most deep strikers surviving a Prescienced shooting phase from a full paladin squad, so you'll most likely dispatch them with no trouble, or weaken them enough that their attack is pitiful.

Assault unit from Hell
If you're tired of being pushed around in close combat by the foul heretic scum, then try using this unit as your ace in the hole.

OX Inquisitor: Rad, Psycho, ML 1
Henchmen: 8 DCA, 4 Crusaders (DCA armed with Axe & Sword)
Librarian: Shrouding, Might of Titan, Quicksilver
LRC: Psybolts, Mmelta

If you're packing a techmarine, throw him in the unit as well.

If you can find yourself a ruin big enough to hide the LR in/behind, bolster that, then keep shrouding up for a 2+ cover save on your LR (This is great fun, I loved the look people had when I was rolling 2 ups for my LR). Anything comes near, you barrel out and charge with this monster unit. Anything short of 20 TH/SS terminators don't stand a chance of weathering that storm. It's especially fun springing this on a Paladin or Nob Biker player who thinks their big death stars are invincible to anything.

Shooty Henchmen + Deep Striking/Shunting GKs

Bring 1 or 2 squads of Henchmen wielding plasma cannons (Inquisitors with Prescience necessary) and whatever else you want. If you also augment their saves well enough, you'll create a situation where the plasma cannons can not be dealt with in a single turn (unless some specialized firepower is used). This will force the OPFOR to either space out or be very hurt. Even if the Plasma Cannons do not deal much damage, it's perfectly fine, as the grossly enlarged footprint of each unit creates a formation that can be taken advantage of to create local superiority with relative ease.

GK firing line + flanking CC threat

Place the ADL right at the center of mid-field, then move your mass of guys up to it with a Librarian at the middle providing Shrouding for 3+ cover saves at the center. This basically locks the battle at the center. If the situation places you at the advantage in a CQB fight, then do the following. Wait for the Stormraven to come in, then fly/flat out into position to assault a target next turn.

This same turn, move your entire army up and shoot/run. This poses a serious problem for the opponent, as the OPFOR wants to deal with the stormraven and assault unit, but also wants to take advantage of the percieved opening of leaving cover. No matter what kind of firepower the opponent is toting, it is most likely not enough to destroy the stormraven + contents AND suitably weaken the advancing line of GKs. It will be a decision between a rock and a hard place, and no matter what happens, something of the OPFOR will be dying a horrific death.
 

Maneuver Tactics

Flank/Rear Assault
While this is a fundamental concept for Fantasy players, 40k players in general seem to not understand directional attacks at all. Every time I see complaints about the HarlieStar or Draigowing or other such shock units using directional shield tactics, I can't help but shake my head and say "hit the flanks".

When you are faced with a unit using an IC as a shield for the unit, you have two options you can employ to work around this. First option is to use units with high mobility to work around and hit that shock unit from the side, thus bypassing the IC altogether. Second option is to use weaponry with the Barrage type to change the direction from which the attack is coming from, thus bypassing the IC.

Denied Flank
When you are faced with a numerically superior OPFOR, it is very often a bad idea to try to engage the entirety of the OPFOR with your whole army. In such cases, aim to deploy second so you can force your opponents hand. If this does not come to pass, use reserves/deep strike to achieve the same effect. This will naturally lead to a situation where you can establish local superiority, which will in turn stack the odds in your favor as you engage a minority of the OPFOR with a majority of your own forces.

When enacting this tactic, a diversion is very often necessary to preserve local superiority long enough for you to successfully neutralize the section you engage and redeploy into favorable positions to assault the remainder. The cheaper the diversion, the better, as the diversionary force will almost invariably be destroyed in the pursuit of this goal.

Baiting
If your opponent is a more reactive player that likes to set up killzones and traps for you, do the following. Deploy a small part of your force in such a manner that ranged attacks will affect that force very little. This will encourage the OPFOR to close the distance in order to see better results. Use this opportunity to either shunt or deep strike the rest of your forces on to the weakest flank (the rear flank is usually ideal). This will create an optimal position for you to establish local superiority. This tactic is most effective when the "bait" is very effective at shooting, as this will pressure your opponent into showing his hand and advancing to engage. Be careful not to overextend your forces, as the tables can be turned on you very quickly if your opponent becomes savvy to the trick.

Cross-up
With the dawn of 6th comes the advent of positioning tactics. Many players now place their special/heavy weapons and upgrade units in the back of the unit in order to put as much of a buffer between them and their investments. This is a tendency that can be exploited with some implied threats and clever positioning.

First part of this tactic is to set the opponent up. Hit the target unit with an attack on any flank. Typically, this will have the opponent orient the target unit in relation to the threat presented. If the opponent does what you're looking for (all special models positioned at the back), the stage has been set. Second part of this tactic is to enact the cross-up. Use a highly mobile unit to maneuver to the rear flank of the target unit, at which point you are directly removing his valuable models.

On Grey Knights and Allies

Whether we like it or not, the Allies system is here, and the question stands on just how we Grey Knight players are affected by this paradigm shift. I am most certainly not the authority on this subject, as I still do not run allies of any kind, but I will definitely delve into how I think we should approach the induction of allies. Now, the first thing I think we should cover when talking about allies is what the system means at it's core. Barring certain dumb combinations with certain codices, I think the biggest benefit of having allies available is the ability to patch the weaknesses of one's army with the strengths of another army. However, where Space Marines have relatively constant and glaring weaknesses, Grey Knights have weaknesses based on which kind of strategy they implement to achieve victory. This is due in no small part to the diverse nature of the units available to us as our Troops and the versatility of the rest of the units available in the codex. Thus, I don't think there's a simple answer of who is the best pairing for GKs as a whole. Thankfully, I have already laid out the ground work for successful strategies to take, and we can take those concepts and examine them closer to see where they lack.

First up is the Water style army type. Generally, Water style armies have no shock units and no overwhelmingly powerful units. Versatility is the army's greatest strength, but it can also turn out to be a crippling weaknesses in a time of desperation. An incorrect analysis of the OPFOR, tactical mistakes, the auspices of the Wheel of Fate, or even simply forgetting about a unit tucked away in the corner of a ruin could quickly turn the tables on these armies, and thus the army stops proactively countering the OPFOR to reactively countering threats presented by the OPFOR. Allies can step in and help stabilize the flow of the battle by introducing a constant in your strategy. This constant could be a powerful shock unit that introduces a diversion for the GK force to take advantage of, or it could be overwhelming fire support that warps the OPFOR's strategic focus on neutralizing said fire support. Choice of allies is up to you, of course, as many can provide this kind of support.

Second up is the Fire style army. In my opinion, this style benefits the least out of the bunch from allies as we have quite efficient offensive options at our core. If anything, an allied contingent designed to hold the rear while the offensive GK force advances and does their thing would be most effective. Our lack of heavy artillery is quite a big concern for camping forces, so I'd suggest IG as the ally of choice here due to their overwhelming access to heavy firepower and the best flier in the game.

Next is the Earth/Fire army. In this codex, our very versatile troops trade strategic versatility for tactical supremacy, which is good if we can force the OPFOR to fall into our trap and fight us on our terms. Sometimes, this does not occur, and the army is quickly outmaneuvered and parceled into defeat due to the lesser mobility options available. This problem is compounded by our expensive flank support options, and I think this is where allies can step in and fill in the void very well. Because of the nature of the operating armies, I think Dark Eldar are the best option. Yes, I know they are Desperate Allies, but think about it. The Grey Knight force is focused on obtaining and maintaining a dominating presence in the middle of the board from which to brawl with and annihilate the OPFOR. What this contingent requires from supporting forces is the ability to Fix incoming flanking threats and neutralize elements in the OPFOR that the main force can not reach. By the very nature of the roles these supporting forces take, they are operating far away from the main force. The drawback of Desperate Allies is thus effectively negated, as they will never concentrate forces unless the situation is exceptionally desperate. And who better fills these roles then the Dark Eldar, who have cheap tarpits and very efficient firepower?

Last is the Air army. In my opinion (Yeah, I'm saying this a lot, but I feel some will forget unless I beat this horse to death), this army is the weakest strategy of the lot, and thus benefit from allies the most. Due to the premium paid for the extreme mobility acquired, the army has very little staying power and little of substance once the gambit has been enacted. Allies providing great board presence are the pick of choice for me, as this also forces the OPFOR to orient to the allied element (in other words, exactly the situation that creates the openings this army needs). Alternately, the allied force could augment the offensive output of the army by adding in even more mobile elements (I wouldn't suggest this, as this is a situation where you are jumping through hoops to add more of basically the same thing).

Overall, I think Grey Knights don't really need allies per say, as the options available can cover most of our tactical and strategic needs. For those few things we don't have (artillery, cheap diversionary units, more direct psychic protection), the option is always there.
 

Match-up specific strategies and tactics

Obviously, different opponents will require different tactics (sometimes strategies) to overcome, and I will go over all my thoughts and experience on the most common match-ups.

Codex: Space Marines
Space Marines are a grab bag of possibilities. One match, you may be facing a shooting line from hell. Next match, you'll be eating a ton of close quarters battle goodness. Best you can do is either have an army and strategy that is flexible enough in application to either take the fight to them or be able to stave off incoming forces long enough to divide and conquer, or have an army that is so offensively oriented that your opponent can do nothing to stop you (... not that hard where C:SM is concerned). Overall, a match-up to be wary of, but hardly your toughest fight.

Codex: Dark Angels
Dark Angels are now basically tantamount to C:SM in terms of basic units. Tactical Squads can be quite cheap, and Devastators are dirt cheap, making this army quite good at bringing the boots and guns. Watch out, the tables have turned, and Dark Angels are quite capable of giving most GK players a run for their money. 

Deathwing are probably one of the most elite armies in the game (second only to Draigowing). Their small model count is offset by their wargear options and fearless, which can lead to an army that is annoyingly durable to high quality firepower. Thankfully, GKs aren't known that well for their lascannon/plasma cannon count. Psybolt Stormbolters and Psycannons are more then adequate to force enough wounds to take down these squads in a timely fashion, and our anti-deep strike rules only add insult to injury. Two shooting phases should be more then enough to reduce the threat sufficiently to be in a winning situation later on. Keep an eye out for the Knights with their maces, as that S10 at Initiative can hurt quite a bit if left alone.

Ravenwing are overshadowed a bit by C:SM Biker armies due to their inability to include attack bikes in bike squads. In general, you either want to consolidate and advance to objectives, then wait for the OPFOR to close in (most of the time, they won't, as they will get murdered in CQB), or you use mobility options to get the drop on them and inflict heavy casualties that they won't be able to recover from. Use maneuver tactics to try to claim the Attack Bike/Special Weapon Bikes first, and their damage output will be greatly reduced. 

Doublewing are a little better off as they have the durability and CC capability of the Deathwing to act as a foundation from which the Ravenwing can maneuver to enact local superiority. As a rule of thumb, the Ravenwing are priority number 1, as they possess the most ability to affect the mission due to their mobility. Once the mobile elements are neutralized, the more ponderous Deathwing can be safely engaged next, as their ranged output is negligible and their speed is average at best.

Codex: Blood Angels
Blood Angels will typically come in three varieties. First type is the mechanized speed demon force, Second is the Assault Squads from hell, and Third is the gunline.

Mech Blood Angels used to be the force to be reckoned with in 5th, but now, it's almost too easy to neutralize. Predators and Rhinos fall easy prey to S5 storm bolters and psycannons, and the token troops occupying the razorbacks pose almost no threat to anything. Use flanking/rear attacks to destroy the high priority threats first, then mop up the rest.

Assault Squad Spam Blood Angels seems to be more popular then the gunline, at least around my neck of the woods. This kind of list will consist of either regular Assault Squads or Sanguinary Guard and will be supported by either Devastators, Predators, Baal Predators, or Stormravens. Depending on how assault capable your forces are, Assault Squads vary between Medium to Low on the target priority list, as our standard equipment sees them off with only Feel No Pain to keep them company. Sanguinary Guard go High now as we require Daemonhammers or Doomfists to ignore their armor save. Depending on your army's configuration, you will have to choose between prioritizing their firebase or their incoming assault forces. A diversion like a Strike Squad or a Dreadknight romping about in their backfield can suffice for keeping their fire support occupied while the rest of your force focuses on engaging the assault squads.

Gunline Blood Angels are a rare breed for some odd reason. If the OPFOR is composed entirely of shooting elements, get in close and engage in CQB where we have the great advantage. If the OPFOR has a Shock Unit supported by a list full of shooting units, this is where it gets tough. Thanks to Corbulo, Blood Angel Shock Units are all but immune to small arms fire from the front, and their flanks are well covered by the firebase. Combat Squad what you can and get in danger close to engage the gunline elements. You will most likely win those individual skirmishes, as those gunline elements typically have little to no close combat capability. The results of this are two-fold: You force many little situations of local superiority and you force the Shock Unit to decide where to go. As with basically all Shock Units, it can only be in once place at a time, and when you have the entire board covered, there aren't exactly many winning situations to be had. If you feel confident enough to engage the shock unit and win in a straight-up fight, then you should be fine for the most part.

Codex: Space Wolves
This is no doubt a tough fight no matter which kind of Space Wolves you run into, as our psychic powers won't be as reliable as they normally are. The Space Pups come in three main varieties: Mechanized wolves, Drop Pod wolves, and Hybrid wolves.

Regardless of the army build, Wolf Scouts and Lone Wolves will be a pain in the rear to deal with. Thankfully, the Scouts can no longer assault when they come in, so shooting them once should deal with them sufficiently. Lone Wolves are probably the second best distraction in the game. If you can, ignore the Lone Wolf. If you must kill the lone wolf, use the unit with the least amount of shooting options first so that you can try to preserve your offensive options as much as possible.

Mech wolves are very similar to Mech blood angels, and you can deal with them in much the same way. In a way, mech wolves are less able then blood angels because they move much slower, giving them less ability to reposition after you initiate a flank attack. However, this puts you in range of their Rune Priests, which can carry all sorts of risks itself based on what powers they generated. If at all possible, try to hit the Rune Priests first, preferrably with Mindstrike weaponry.

Drop Pod wolves give you two methods of dealing with them: keep them at arms length and get into a gun battle, or let them come close, weather the storm, then shoot/charge them, aiming for the wipe.

Hybrid wolves provide a couple of ways of answering them. First, you can ignore the mech/shooting part of the list and prioritize the podding squads first. Second, you can deep strike yourself so you can engage the backfield elements and force the OPFOR to drop their squads into friendly territory to support. Either way, keep target prority in mind and don't be afraid to move on to other targets after you sufficiently weaken one squad (<25%).

Codex: Grey Knights
This mirror match is an absolutely lethal match-up, as we are our own worst enemy. Close Combats will be on the whole lethal and extremely quick, and all our anti-psyker related weapons will work wonders on our own kind.

This fight will basically boil down to who is able to shoot first and inflict casualties faster then the other, then who is able to get the charge off.

Henchmen can change the equation a bit, especially those of the close combat variety. Henchmen outfight most of the Grey Knight units point for point, so pure grey knight opponents will be very threatened by henchmen and the accelerated rate of attrition they inflict.

Codex: Imperial Guard
This is one of the toughest match-ups we have, bar none. On the whole, Guard units evaporate before Grey Knights, but there are simply so many that we get overwhelmed more often then not. Their shooting also has much better stand-off capability, which puts the onus on us to close the distance.

We may not exactly be great at stand-off shooting, but we must not neglect it. Henchmen can serve great purpose here, as they can fire on high priority targets with heavy weapons right from the start. Anything that can start opening up chimeras and shaking/destroying manticores/medusas/leman russ tanks in the opening phases of the game helps tremendously.

Line infantry are probably best off deep striking into terrain, hopefully establishing local superiority so they can fire at least once at full strength. Shoot as often as possible and charge if you can, you have to be active in as many phases as possible to have a chance of neutralizing enough of the army to be relatively safe in the later phases of the game.

The more bodies you bring to this fight, the better off you usually are, as model quality means very little here.

Codex: Dark Eldar
Dark Eldar are the iconic fire type army, as their offensive power is unparalleled even by the Imperial Guard. Thankfully, their defense is very lacking, and that is our only saving grace. Avoid spending too much on upgrades to bring more bodies, as you will probably be facing down a lot of firepower.

Achieving Local Superiority against Dark Eldar is like trying to catch fish with your bare hands. It's possible, but very unlikely, so you're better off just focusing fire and cutting off their mobility. Since they outrange most Grey Knights for the most part, Deep Strike will be the key tool to use here. As long as you can hamstring the Dark Eldar by neutralizing the Raiders/Venoms ASAP, you should stand a good chance of keeping the OPFOR in mid-range so that the fight is even.

Shooty Henchmen are worth their weight in gold in this match-up, as they take advantage of the Dark Eldar's poison weaponry to be more durable then Grey Knights given some good cover to hug. Combine this with their shooting ability, and most Dark Eldar players will learn to fear your Henchmen something fierce.

Codex: Necrons
Necrons are probably the most annoying match-up to face. Vehicle support is basically null and void thanks to Gauss, so it's up to the boots on the ground to win the day. Grey Knights will outshoot Necrons at mid-range, but assault can pose a problem if you rely on low model count units to do the killing thanks to Mindshackle Scarabs.

On the ground, Terminators will be vital in providing counter-assault support against Wraiths/Lychguard and Characters, as they will be a bit much for the Power Armored Grey Knights to handle. As always, HQs that provide force multipliers to the unit will be the best choice for shooting/assault support, as beatsticks will become counter-productive to you.

In the air, Necrons bring an insane amount of fliers, and there's honestly not much we can do about that outside of allies, Stormravens, and fortifications. About the best we can do in the air is to hit the Doom Scythes first, hopefully take those down, and ignore the Night Scythes, hoping those don't do much damage.

Target priority will be a bit simpler then normal against Necrons. First target priority will be the close combat capable necrons, as those are willing to close in and engage in CQB. Second target priority will be Doom Scythes, as those can do quite a bit of damage left unattended. The other vehicles are third on the list. Warriors/Immortals can be saved for last, as they are relatively easily dispatched in CQB. In any case, focus fire as much as possible, as Reanimation Protocols can render your efforts moot if you spread out your damage too much.

Codex: Orks
This match-up is pretty simple for Grey Knights. We come with Storm Bolters standard (S5 is almost a given), have super assault cannons in every slot, and rock force weapons standard. This means that their troops are dropping like flies as they advance, all of their armor is extremely vulnerable to every single unit we bring (Hit the Flanks of those battlewagons, same deal), and Nobs are facing serious damage in assault against even our basic strike squads.

Dreadknights serve a great purpose here, as their heavy incinerators can make extremely short work of any orks you want to hit. Combine this with Karazamov, and there is basically no ork unit that will ever want to assault the Dreadknight, EVER (excluding Ghazghkull, but whatever).

Since Orks want to drown you in dice (either via shooting or close combat) and require a lot of space to do so, don't let them get that space. Use the terrain to your advantage. Set yourself up so that there are only a few ways to get in at you cleanly without having to deal with terrain, and take care of the problem one target at a time.

Nob Bikers may be terrifying to other Marine armies, but they shouldn't phase us at all. Toughness 5 is a little bit of a concern, but that's what Librarians are for IMO. Soften them up with your shooting phase (hopefully, you should have at least 3 full squads of guys for their one Nob Squad points-wise), let one unit get charged (I'd suggest combat squading one of those squads and putting them out front to soak the charges), then surround the nobs, shoot, then charge. Librarians help tremendously here, as they can cast Hammerhand and Might of Titan, letting the squads save their warp charge for force weapon activation. This has taken care of Nob Bikers every time I fought them, and I rarely see them now because of that (This is just against me though... seems they show up a bit more often against other non-GK people).

Ork Fighta-Bombas can be rather destructive given the right unit combinations. As always, Stormravens can help keep the skies clear for you so you can concentrate on the fight on the ground. Stormravens also bring the additional benefit of being able to reach the backfield, taking care of ork fire support and hopefully diverting some of the orks back towards their own board edge.

Codex: Chaos Space Marines
This is quite the classic match-up for us Grey Knights. The current codex is too new for me to throw out any specific tactics that are proven to work against them, but I will still record my thoughts at the moment about what I think will be a good way to play against them. As I get more experience beating some Chaotic bum, I'll post more and more tactics that I find effective against them.

My general impression of the new codex and the few times I've crossed blades with them is that, for the most part, the basic units for chaos are about the same as before. Not much has changed with their weapon options and specific usage tactics, and the cult troops are pretty much where they were before with the Gavdex (Berzerkers got a big middle finger though... sucks to be them, I suppose). Just get to mid-range and flood them with saves, and they'll go down just as easily as they did before.

Daemon Princes cost a ton more overall, but are much more capable. Biggest detractor from Daemon Princes is that they are now not immune to instant death! Combine this with the fact that we get Preferred Enemy rerolls against them, and they're looking at bullying shooty henchmen and strike squads only (even then, he still might get taken out by that one lucky force weapon hit). This combines into there being more Lords and Sorcerers coming to play, which will either be better or worse for us (Better if it's a Lord, as they are pretty much forced into the Melee beatstick role, worse if it's a sorcerer, as they have access to Telepathy and have ML 3 for half what we pay...).

Their fast attack selections gained quite a bit of viability, as bikers are dirt cheap now, as are Raptors. Warp Talons are a mixed bag, as they come with double lightning claws for cheap, but are daemons and have no grenades. Basically, not much has changed, but there will generally be more of them.

Biggest things that I'm wary of are those Sorcerers, Heldrakes, Maulerfiends, and Noise Marines. Sorcerers have a decent chance of getting Invisibility, which will complicate issues a bit for us. You remember those Harlequins with their 2+ cover saves and all that? Let's now make them Terminators or Bikers. Heldrakes are going to be extremely deadly to Power Armor players, as they will tear right through entire squads in a heartbeat. Maulerfiends are quite the distraction to deal with, as they're fast, cheap, and deadly. Noise Marines compete quite well with Grey Knights at Mid-range, and they're able to pack AP3 flamers as well (I'm noticing a trend here...) so CQB can be quite a risky proposition.

Basically, Chaos Space Marines can do anything they want to do, so it's best to be prepared to either keep your distance or get in to CQB ASAP. Anti-air abilities are pretty much required in this match-up, as going without it can spell disaster pretty quickly for you. Pack at least one dedicated assault unit (Terminators/Paladins or assault Henchmen) so you can deal with flying DPs and close combat threats should they appear.

Give me some time with this, I'll be back with more detailed analysis on common threats, combos, and counters.

Codex: Eldar
This match-up has the potential to be the most annoying fight to go through. Our psychic powers are basically null and void thanks to Runes of Warding, and Eldar have access to some of the best force multipliers in the game. Their units are super specialized, fragile, and expensive. Their units are individually lackluster for the most part, but those psychic powers more then make up for those individual flaws in creating a coherent fighting force.

What's most important to remember in this fight is that Eldar consist of many completely specialized units working together to achieve the end goal of victory. Your first step in this fight is to identify which element of his force is most deadly/disruptive to you and neutralize it first. If Mr. Eldar doesn't tailor his lists for you, there will be certain parts of the army that will be useless for the most part against you (If he does... target priority is basically whatever you can hurt at the time).

Eldar have two ways of operating that I've seen: Earth type and Air/Fire type. While Air/Fire is typical of Eldar, Earth seems like an anomaly that certain players like to use to shake up the metagame from time to time.

Air/Fire Eldar consist of mobile units designed to achieve local superiority and wipe out entire elements of the OPFOR at a time (sound familiar?). There are two ways to combat this: Consolidate on a position that offers little visual cover to the OPFOR and destroy whatever comes close, or use a small firebase to engage high priority targets while the rest of your forces deep strike to turn the tables and surgically remove key parts of the eldar offensive. You have to judge the situation and choose the option that exposes you to the least return fire. If you're facing War Walkers, Vypers, Night Spinners, Falcons, and other long range type Eldar, then the "castling" tactic is probably not the way to go, as that will maximize damage to you while ensuring that most of your army can not reach the OPFOR.

Earth Eldar can be VERY annoying based on what's doing the surviving. These armies use the defensive force multipliers combined with certain units to create situations where shooting at them with basic weapons basically amounts to nothing happening. This is a situation where Incinerators/Heavy Incinerators become necessary, as psychic powers like Perfect Timing are not accessible to help circumvent this. Assaulting can be a risky proposition, as there is usually a squad of Harlequins/Striking Scorpions/Banshees waiting to counter-charge. You'll have two realistic options for dealing with this based on what you brought. If you have incinerators, use those to obliterate the units using the cover save tricks; this forces the Eldar player's hand, which you can subsequently take advantage of by shooting/charging the assault element and breaking that part of the army. If you don't have incinerators, you have to close the distance ASAP and get into assault. That counter-charge unit will do some serious damage, so you have to try to get multiple units into combat with that unit simultaneously to try to overwhelm it and break it's back.

Codex: Tyranids
This is one of those match-ups where you basically have an answer to just about everything they're bringing. Storm Bolters on every guy helps a lot, as does the versatility of the Psycannon and availability of great close combat ability. Karazamov combined with Dreadknights can cut down swaths of their army with barely a sweat. If there's an easier match-up then Tyranids... I can't think of one.

For the most part, Tyranids have a single agenda: Get into CQB and attempt to overwhelm you with dice. Problem with this agenda is that this is where Grey Knights shine, as that's where we can backpedal while applying full firepower, then fire to full effect while charging for the mop-up. Low AP firepower is a rarity for Tyranids, so their only real way of dealing with an army of power armor is to try to fling as many dice at you as possible at range or ignore your armor in close combat.

That being said, it's not all completely bad for Tyranids. They have the most widespread access to the rulebook psychic powers, which can get a bit annoying given the right powers on the right units. Dreadnoughts are worth a look here, as the Reinforced Aegis can help neutralize those powers for the most part.

The dreaded Doom of Malan'tai is, for the most part, overrated, as cover saves are available against it's AoE attack and our army is full of torrent of fire and force weapons. When it lands, take the hit (shouldn't do much since you have warp quake up... right?), get a unit right out of 6" of the Doom, shoot it, and charge. You will most likely force enough wounds through to kill him (hasn't failed me so far). He's a prime target for Mortis Dreads (forcing saves with S8 weaponry is not a fun thing for it to deal with), so fire any of those first before you try to torrent him off.

The only thing you really need to watch out for is the Ymgarl Genestealers. If you know you're facing these, you have two options to employ: Stay in Rhinos and away from area terrain pieces, or completely cover all the area terrain with your infantry on foot. The former option will make sure that all the stealers can reach is the rhino (or have to roll difficult/dangerous to get to you), and the latter option will shut down their ability to burst out of that terrain. Any dedicated assault unit from C:GKs can obliterate stealers, so it shouldn't be an issue most of the time.

In general, consolidate your forces, use the bulk of the tyranid army against them to create local superiority as they try to get in close, and start the fireworks.

Codex: Sisters of Battle
This match-up is interesting. Sisters operate at the same range band as Grey Knights for the most part, so it's usually a slugfest. While the line troopers aren't very effective at close combat at all, their support forces can be very deadly, as they have access to henchmen, just as we do.

Keeping Sisters at mid-range sees them at a disadvantage, as their meltas/flamers are out of range and their bolters are less effective then storm bolters. Maintain this range band to the best of your ability, prioritizing the quick moving units first. Once the majority of the OPFOR has been neutralized, feel free to close in to initiate the mop-up operations. Just be weary of the henchmen assault squads, as they will mess up most PAGKs in a hurry.

The most annoying part of this fight is Saint Celestine. While she won't die, she's not super effective in close combat against terminators, so it's usually a good idea to use Terminators as the home base objective holders.

Codex: Tau
Tau are a deceivingly powerful army, and underestimating them can lead to a quick defeat. Their stand-off potential is overwhelming, as is their ability to engage at mid-range with overwhelming firepower. Local Superiority can be tough to achieve vs Tau, as their standard armaments have extremely long range.

The best thing about Tau is that, other then the Battle Suits, a majority of their units are T3 and 4+ save. This means that Incinerators of the mobile kind (think Dreadknights or Interceptors) can be worth their weight in gold both in achieving first blood and in wiping out flanks in a heartbeat. You're going to need some of this capability too, as Pathfinders will make your life a living hell if you do not deal with them.

On the whole, Tau are torn about you getting close in. On the one hand, their full firepower is realized when you're in close, as they can rapid-fire pulse rifles to do some serious damage. On the other hand, other then overwatch, Tau have basically no defense against any of our units that reach the inside. When closing the distance (either via Deep Strike or transports), make absolutely sure that you move as fast as possible and stick to cover, as your shooting out of midfield will do basically nothing to the Tau.

Beware when using units that rely on cover saves against Tau. Markerlights are one of the better force multipliers in the game in that they improve tau accuracy and reduce your survivability by reducing cover saves. If you're using shooty henchmen, prioritize Pathfinders, as once they're gone, threats to you are reduced to danger close battlesuits with flamers (I never see these, but you never know).

In general, It'll pay off to play as aggressively as possible using Deep Strike and Henchmen to put the pressure on. Either use deep strike and Stormravens to deliver care packages of henchmen/whatever to targets of opportunity (those isolated pathfinder squads, a line formation with weak flanks, etc), or drive forward and flat out to reach forward positions in the midfield. Whatever your methods, prioritize Markerlight equipped units first, as the Tau army loses effectiveness very quickly as markerlight count goes down.

Codex: Daemons
New codex, new analysis needed. Wait a bit, still pending investigation.

[staxer]

Great article, looking forward too more

[Gentlemanloser]

Nice read!

 

Some comment;

 

Mordrak is a distraction through and through. His abilities and retinue are tailored for this use, and given the right conditions, he can cause a bit of damage before he bites the dust. The biggest detractor from him and his retinue is that he has basically no ranged firepower to apply on the drop. Just as good, as he probably has the most reliable deep strike I've ever seen. However, you can attach a single IC to get some more hitting power. Most popular one I've seen is the Librarian with Warp Rift. I don't approve of this plan though because this means that your warlord has basically been given up as forfeit for the distraction, automatically putting you behind on VPs. Overall, I'd say Mordrak should only show up for fluff lists.

 

Mordrak is now quite the liabilty. Without even the IC's Lo,S! 2+ to protect him, he's quite vulnerable to be IDed by sniping. Not only does this cause you to lose an expensive IC, but also an entire 5-8 man GKT squad as well!

 

Given that he can't assault on the turn he Deep Strikes, This is 400+ points of eggs in a basket easier to kill then a Land Raider.

 

It's not a gamble I'm *ever* going to take.

[number6]

I am still surprised at how Troop -- you did notice that, yes? TROOP -- GKTs get no love while Paladins continue to get all of it. ;)

 

I am less surprised -- though still disappointed -- that the Brother-Captain continues to be outright dismissed. Believe it or not, but 25 pts can be a big deal, and so far, as often as I have played with the Grand Master, I really don't believe Grand Strategy to be a requirement by any stretch. Useful, and worth 25 pts, but only just worth it. In all honesty, if GS had been priced at 35 pts I would actually almost never use him. It's merely a decent ability that makes the GM worth considering over the BC ... not the other way around. ;) The BC remains cheaper and just as useful in shooting and combat as any GM. Build a decent list, and trust me, the GM won't be so "obviously required".

 

Every unit -- EVERY unit -- in this codex can be used to good effect ... in an army list build to suit the unit's strengths.

 

Some are definitely more generally useful than others, and thus will tend to get used more often, but absolutely every unit has been put to use by me at least a few times (other than the non-Coteaz named Inquisitors), and there are merits to all of them.

 

I find vacuum unit analysis like this to be barely useful. Only in the context of an entire army list do a unit's strengths/weaknesses really come to mean anything useful.

[thade]

Every unit -- EVERY unit -- in this codex can be used to good effect ... in an army list build to suit the unit's strengths.

 

Some are definitely more generally useful than others, and thus will tend to get used more often, but absolutely every unit has been put to use by me at least a few times (other than the non-Coteaz named Inquisitors), and there are merits to all of them.

 

I find vacuum unit analysis like this to be barely useful. Only in the context of an entire army list do a unit's strengths/weaknesses really come to mean anything useful.

I've said this so many times, and it's virtually always responded to with a vacuum unit analysis and arbitrarily assigned values-for-points. That said, number6 here speaks the truth. Heed his words. <3

[Vash]

Well, its nice to see some analyze of units. But when doing at a large scale like this, each unit doesnt get the full breakdown they need. And if they did, the text would become a whole book in the end :)

 

A+ for doing this, but I generally dont like when personal thoughts are put in to convince others that its a fact

Coteaz is hands down the best named HQ in this codex.

This is dont agree with. It really comes down again to how you play and the synergy of the rest of the army.

 

 

Anyhow, for newcomers this is a nice read through. Getting some basic knowledge of units in the dex.

[spartan249]

Alright number6, the floor is yours. Make the case for the brother captain vs the Grand Master. What does the brother captain do that the grand master can not? When is it a good idea to take him over a brotherhood champion or a grand master?

 

And disclaimer: these are all my opinions based on all my games thus far in addition to my reasoning. Sorry if you don't like opinions, but the world is full of them.

[Creamywynch]

I have to say i completely agree with Spartan in regards to the usefulness of the brotherhood captain compared to the grand master. 25 points for the ability to make up to 3 units scoring, re-rolling 1's, outflank ect ect is excellent. it gives your force that much more flexibility when fighting opponents/missions you have not planned for (such as in tournaments). 25 points for a significant army wide booster is pretty damn good.

 

In regards to the point about generic reviews of units ect I think it is perfectly valid for someone to write down their opinions on how units perform in 6th. I think we all need to realise that every one of us is an individual, with different play styles and opponents and that our opinions are formed through the prism of this experience. What works for one does not always work for another.

 

In regards to Pallies over Terminators i would like to hear some more thoughts on this. I am continually torn about which to take (especially when draigo makes pallies troops) as the points difference between two ten man units is not massive (unless pallies are tooled up with apoth ect)

[Gentlemanloser]

Alright number6, the floor is yours. Make the case for the brother captain vs the Grand Master.

 

Or Venerable Dreads. ;)

 

Or Stern, Banishers and even Purgators.

 

Sure, you can include a Banisher if you think you're going to face Daemons. You could even make a case for a Burninator Purgation Squad.

 

But then you could field an army of 144 Servitors with Power Fists. But is that 'Good Effect'? Probably not.

 

I think the problem is that 'Good' is rather subjective.

 

Do you need to tailor your *entire* army list just to make a single unit work? Becuase you can do this, does it then make that unit 'Good'? Or is the distinction that when there are units that are 'Good' enough in themselves you don't have to build specifically to cater for them, that means that units where you do, are 'Bad'.

 

Where do we draw the line?

 

Old Chaos Dex with two troops, no Icons and all points into Summoned Daemons, the only defiintion of 'Bad', or 'Poor Effect'? Are Inquisitorial Servitors 'Good' becuase they have to have an Inquisitor in thier unit to actually work? Or does this make them 'Bad'?

 

I have to say i completely agree with Spartan in regards to the usefulness of the brotherhood captain compared to the grand master.

 

I tihnk the real problem with the BC to GM issue is being over looked.

 

Why take the BC?

 

If you want to use TGS (to maybe make an allied unit scoring), then you take the GM.

 

If you don't want TGS, then *why take the BC*? Take another HQ instead. Like an Inquisitor in TDA with a Psycannon.

 

In regards to Pallies over Terminators i would like to hear some more thoughts on this.

 

Caveats. :D

 

If you're;

 

Not running a Themed List

Have the FoC slots available

Are going to use GKT in multiples of 10

 

You can get more 'oomph' from using those points to purchase half the amount of Paladin and another Unit.

 

For example only;

 

10 x GKT, 2 x Psycannon = 450 Points

 

5 x Paladin, 2 x Psycannon, 5 x Strike, 1 x Psycannon, 1 x NFH = 430

 

More wounds, More Psycannons for cheaper.

[Aethernitas]

I for one hate the fluff our Spiritual Liege Matt Ward wrote for Draigo (and the GKs in general) and therefor never playing Palas as troops. Thats already a big plus für the standard Terminators cuz they are troops and can take objectives. Besides that I'd also point out the higher point efficiency against strength 8+ weapons as well as the cheaper attacks and shots per point. Force multipliers like Grand Strategy, a Scriptor or an Inquisitor with Prescience also work better for Terminators cuz u generally have more of those than paladins.

 

edit:

@gentlemanloser - In that context u could also take 3 Purifier squads à 5 with 2 psycannons each... also 15 wounds but hey - even more psycannons and they only cost 420 points. It's just not the same. Not at all. Problem is the internets tends to compare everything in a vacuum :\

[number6]

Alright number6, the floor is yours. Make the case for the brother captain vs the Grand Master. What does the brother captain do that the grand master can not? When is it a good idea to take him over a brotherhood champion or a grand master?

I already laid out the brief case in my initial post. Sometimes, points are just too tight to afford anybody but the BC. As I keep repeating, it is list dependent. For example, if you're taking two full units of Strikers and a unit of Interceptors, and you have 175 pts left over for your HQ. Do you take the GM or the BC and spend those 25 pts elsewhere? Most of you would probably say, "GM!"

 

I am not so certain. Sure, Grand Strategy can make your Interceptors scoring, (and possibly also your dreads or whatever else you might have), but you already have 4 scoring units with your strikers, and anything else I am wanting to make scoring (e.g., the interceptors) I am intending to use as pressure units as it is. I am definitely going to be throwing them in harm's way. They're not likely to survive, so scoring isn't getting me much there. Probably don't need it.

 

Scout? Again, who would really benefit from it? The strikers don't really need to scout, and definitely not the interceptors. (Nor, likely, would my dreads or whatever.)

 

Rerolls on 1s? Sure, useful, but ... meh.

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't take the GM in this case. But I am saying that I am likely to prefer the BC here. Why? Because I don't really need Grand Strategy for anything. On the other hand, I see obvious utility in increasing the threat factor of my interceptors by giving them psybolts. I'm already intending with this list to use them as a pressure/bait unit. I built the list expecting them to die before the game's end. So giving them psybolts makes them more useful for the role I have in mind, simultaneously giving them a slightly bigger target, which makes the rest of my list slightly more survivable, as well as making them better at the task I have in mind for them.

 

And with another 5 pts to spare, why not master-craft a Justicar's weapon, or possibly better: the BC's weapon? Seeing as I am taking a beatstick HQ, giving him master-crafting seems like a good idea. BC with master-crafting is definitely more reliable than a GM without master-crafting.

 

This is just one example of the kind of thinking that occurs to me when I consider whether I take the GM or the BC.

 

Beyond that, it really isn't all that uncommon for me to not have more than 150 pts for my HQ. In which case, I am rarely willing to expunge something just to make room for the GM over the BC. The BC is, in all aspects other than Grand Strategy, the same guy. So he's definitely good enough for the job of being my list's HQ.

 

In regards to Pallies over Terminators i would like to hear some more thoughts on this. I am continually torn about which to take (especially when draigo makes pallies troops) as the points difference between two ten man units is not massive (unless pallies are tooled up with apoth ect)

The biggest difference is that pallies aren't scoring unless you build a list specifically around them, taking Draigo as well. People have talked about the "Crowe tax" when buiding purifier lists. The same could be said of Draigo. He's a monster, no doubt about it, but he's also 275 pts!! Combined with the added expense of pallies over GKTs, and your list just got a lot smaller and more vulnerable to specific types of enemy lists. People will still be spamming meltas and lascannons. And spammed missiles are continuing to be all the rage. One failed invul or armour save elminates an entire paladin model. It does a GKT as well, obviously, but then again, they only had one wound to begin with. You're not paying the paladin price expecting them to survive that much longer.

 

I prefer using pallies in non-Draigo lists, actually. Or, when I do use Draigo, I still only take a single 5-man unit of paladins. I feel like paladins actually need a lot of support to fully live up to their fearsome reputation. But opponents LOVE focus firing their heavy weapons on my pallies -- they're so clearly "immune" from basic anti-infantry firepower -- that I feel like it's incumbent to give them as many heavy-weapons-fire-appropriate targets as I can. To my mind, that doesn't equate to taking 10 or 15 more paladins and 1 or 2 (or 3 if the list is big enough) dreadknights. I want a bigger, more robust list that isn't so dependent upon 24" threat range, and the ability to only engage a very small number of units during my turn.

 

That's really one of the biggest drawbacks to taking a true Draigo/paladin list. You'll only be able to threaten like 2 or 3 (maybe 4, if you're playing a big game) enemy units per turn. In an age where the IG is capable of dropping more than a dozen vehicles on the table -- not to mention the infantry -- Draigowing is just completely inadequate to the task of defeating such an army. Maybe if the game didn't end in 7 or less turns, but games do have a hard endpoint. Draigowing doesn't have enough turns ins the tank to actually defeat such a list using any tactics other than "point denial". Whee, fun. Not the way I like to play.

 

I could go on forever, but this is more than long enough already. And besides, the points here have been raised before and all over both the B&C and the net in general. Just the highlights that come to mind right now....

[spartan249]

Ok, so the basis of your argument is that points are thin sometimes, unless I'm mistaken. In that case, why bother even getting a brother captain when you have librarians/inquisitors and brotherhood champions at your disposal? Those guys contribute a hell of a lot more to any army then a single semi tough guy. As I said, force multipliers are key to a good HQ, and brother captains barely cast a shadow compared to other HQs available.

 

If saving points was your real goal, inquisitors would be at the top of the list of replacements available, followed by librarians and brotherhood champions.

[number6]

Ok, so the basis of your argument is that points are thin sometimes, unless I'm mistaken. In that case, why bother even getting a brother captain when you have librarians/inquisitors and brotherhood champions at your disposal? Those guys contribute a hell of a lot more to any army then a single semi tough guy. As I said, force multipliers are key to a good HQ, and brother captains barely cast a shadow compared to other HQs available.

 

If saving points was your real goal, inquisitors would be at the top of the list of replacements available, followed by librarians and brotherhood champions.

Think about what you're saying here. You're NOT saying that Grand Strategy is worth 25 pts. You ARE saying that Grand Strategy is worth 175 pts. That's a big difference.

 

If the only reason you will take a GM is for Grand Strategy, I would argue you're wasting points. 175 pts for GS is wasteful. I would agree with you, therefore: take a cheaper HQ like an Inquisitor instead. Even if we discount a generous 100 pts -- thinking that any HQ you take will cost at least that much, that still means GS is costing you at least 75 pts. Which is totally unjustified, IMHO.

 

However, if you disagree with me here, then you must also agree that a big part of the GM's appeal to you is his relatively beefy statline, and the potential uses for it in your army list. Which is exactly that of the BC's, too.

 

Ergo, my argument vis-a-vis the BC and GM stands.

[spartan249]

I never said I personally take Grand Masters. I'm saying that those people who like the expensive TDA heros and are prepared to spend a lot of points to get one have grand masters to sate their thirst. If you're taking such an HQ, you're already prepared to spend an extravagent amount of points on a pseudo beatstick. I say that you get yourself a force multiplier while doing so to further augment your army.

[Gentlemanloser]

@gentlemanloser - In that context u could also take 3 Purifier squads à 5 with 2 psycannons each... also 15 wounds but hey - even more psycannons and they only cost 420 points. It's just not the same. Not at all.

 

The Purifiers don't give you any 2+/5++ Save wounds. The Paladin give you the same (baring ID of course) amount of 2+/5++ wounds that the GKT give.

 

That's why. :)

 

The biggest difference is that pallies aren't scoring unless you build a list specifically around them, taking Draigo as well.

 

Or you're already taking the GKGM, and you use TGS to make your Pallies Scoring. ;)

 

If the only reason you will take a GM is for Grand Strategy, I would argue you're wasting points.

 

If you're running two HQs, this would be a solid arguement.

 

But as you have to take a manditory HQ anyway, you would have to weigh the cost increase to a GKGM as above what you would otherwise pay.

 

Are you going to take a 110 point Inquisitor? If so choosing the GKGM for TGS has now cost 65 points, and not 175.

 

Were you going to take Karamazov, but opted for a GKGM instead? TGS just cost you minus 25 points.

 

It's not really a meaningful arguement unless you're looking at a single HQ choice in a vaccum. And then the question must be, why are you considering the BC anyway? If the BC is a meanful choice (for whatever reason) then we're back to "is TGS (and the slight stat increase) worth 25 points?".

 

And in 6th, with it's reliance on scoring, spending 25 points to potentially make 3 whole units score, who would otherwise be unable to do so, well, can't really be beat. Can it? Psybolts and a MC NFH just doesn't make the same imact that three whole scoring units does.

[spartan249]

Second topic of interest up in original post.

[number6]

If you're taking such an HQ, you're already prepared to spend an extravagent amount of points on a pseudo beatstick. I say that you get yourself a force multiplier while doing so to further augment your army.

 

But, as I pointed out earlier, what if nothing GS can do really multiplies your force in any meaningful/useful way?

 

And in 6th, with it's reliance on scoring, spending 25 points to potentially make 3 whole units score, who would otherwise be unable to do so, well, can't really be beat. Can it? Psybolts and a MC NFH just doesn't make the same imact that three whole scoring units does.

 

I disagree entirely. It is entirely possible that psybolts + master-crafting will be more useful. It is entirely possible that psychotroke grenades + master-crafting + some other 5 pt expenditure would be more useful. It is entirely possible that 30 pts on both kinds of grenades is more useful than 25 pts spent on GS.

 

Depends. On. The. List.

 

There is no absolute here.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I would add I'm more likely to take an Inquisitor, 2 Inquisitors (neither being Coteaz), a Librarian or a Brotherhood Champion than I am a Brother Captain or Grand Master. They are good choices, it's true, but it's not the only choice, nor is it an auto-given ;)

[spartan249]

... Rerolling 1s to wound is not a force multiplier? Being able to outflank in a fight where deep striking is basically an impossible proposition is not a force multiplier? Counter-attack in the face of an assault heavy army is not beneficial how? I think you have simply not seen enough table time to truly appreciate how some of these options can radically change the options an army has tactically, or just how efficient it can make certain units on the offense.

 

Perhaps you find no worth in Grand Strategy. That's fine, as that's your opinion. Many others make good use of those abilities, and anything that adds tactical options to an army list is a fine addition to an army's capabilities in my book.

[Inquisitor Fox]

If you check exactly what Number6 wrote, is it not that he finds no worth to it. It is that it's worth is 30 points, which can also be spent on things of like worth. In economic terms, you have to compare it's overall Utility gain to your army versus the overall Utility gain of the other options. Perhaps I would rather have a Brother Captain and an Inquisitor, and use those 30 points to make my Inquisitor a psyker for a second dose of psychic communion because I run a reserves/deep strike list. Perhaps I need another psycannon more than I need grand strategy. Perhaps I have enough scoring units that making a seventh or eighth unit scoring is unimportant.

 

The reason we have multiple choices is because there is not one unit that is always the correct answer to a problem. There is not one unit that is universally preferred by every player in existence. Each has good points and bad, and it is not always worth the upgrade from Brother Captain to Grand Master. Sometimes those 30 points are better spent elsewhere for that particular player with that particular list. If there was no worth to a Brother Captain, it would not have been included as an option in the book ;)

[spartan249]

The trouble with this reasoning is that Brother Captains/Grand Masters are otherwise kind of useless. They don't bring too much for their high price tag beyond the grenades and Grand Strategy. Taking the Brother Captain for their somewhat decent melee capability and grenades seems like an unwise choice when faced with HQs that, in the end, generate much more in terms of army capabilites for much less in terms of points. Unlike chaos marines and many xenos HQs, our combat centric characters aren't really good enough to compete, and trying to get into an arms race with vastly superior opponents seems like folly to me.

 

I say that Brother Captains are worthless when compared to Grand Masters because, while I think both are unwise propositions, I know people are going to take them anyway because they're into that sort of thing. At this point, it's damage control, and while we're making unwise decisions, I advocate that you take along a force multiplier that can make the choice somewhat worth it.

[Gentlemanloser]

Depends. On. The. List.

 

And we're back to my point about good/bad lists above. :)

 

I say that Brother Captains are worthless when compared to Grand Masters because, while I think both are unwise propositions, I know people are going to take them anyway because they're into that sort of thing. At this point, it's damage control, and while we're making unwise decisions, I advocate that you take along a force multiplier that can make the choice somewhat worth it.

 

This is the point that still being missed/not addressed.

 

The reason the BC is deemed worthless or useless is that unless for the single reason you do not have the 25 points spare to upgrade to the GKGM, then why not *always* upgrade to the GKGM?

 

If you're making the case that the BC is going to be used, then you've already set aside the HQ Slot and Points for him. In that case it is only a 25 point Jump for the better GM.

 

If the only answer is that you can't spare the 25 points, and that there's no way to free up these points elsewhere, then the discussion has to be, why? Why are you looking to take the BC over the other options available to you?

 

What does the BC offer, that you can't get, and can't get more efficently, from another HQ?

[number6]

What does the BC offer, that you can't get, and can't get more efficently, from another HQ?

Isn't that obvious? There are at least two things unique to the BC/GM.

 

You can't get a combat-worthy HQ otherwise. Draigo is the only other option, and he's nearly twice as expensive and also bends the list around him. Neither the BC nor GM are as demanding or restrictive.

 

It's also the only place where you can get goofy grenades on an actual combat-worthy model ... that also happens to fulfill your minimal Force Org composition restriction. Otherwise you have to pay for both a techmarine (probably upgraded beyond just grenades to make him more survivable in assault) and some other HQ, running you even more points than the BC/GM proposition (even without any other upgrades beyond grenades on the techmarine).

 

Next I suppose you're going to tell me that having combat characters and/or using those grenades are a priori worthless as well. B)

[Gentlemanloser]

I'd say that an OM Inq in TDA with a NDH is combat worthy. Especially with Hammerhand to make them S8.

 

And also cheaper at a steal of 65 points.

 

Inquisitors can also carry grenades, you could have a 2+ AA wearing OX Inquisitor with both Rad and Psycho with a Power Maul for 80 points.

 

If they're not good enough CC units for you, there's also the Brotherhood Champion! ;)

 

But you know all this Number6. So I'm not sure why we're having this discussion.

[number6]

I'd say that an OM Inq in TDA with a NDH is combat worthy. Especially with Hammerhand to make them S8.

 

And also cheaper at a steal of 65 points.

 

Inquisitors can also carry grenades, you could have a 2+ AA wearing OX Inquisitor with both Rad and Psycho with a Power Maul for 80 points.

 

If they're not good enough CC units for you, there's also the Brotherhood Champion!

 

But you know all this Number6. So I'm not sure why we're having this discussion.

Because even though I often use an OM inquisitor in TDA with a hammer, I most definitely do NOT consider him a "combat character". 5++ invul isn't good enough. And only T3 isn't good enough, either. Very easy to suffer instant death.

 

He's a very nice addition to a GKT unit, and is definitely one of my favorite HQ choices. But he's not someone I ever let accept or offer a challenge, save against basic unit "sergeant" models. (And even then, not if they're toting AP2 weapons.) Would you?

 

And you've been following the BrC topic, so we both know that BrC isn't a combat character either.

 

We're having this discussion because you're being stubbornly tunnel-visioned.