Emperor's Furor Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Dorn offered the Phalanx to the Emperor as a gift, but the Emperor declined and told Dorn to keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 fulgrim is not a psyker until proven all u guy point out on him all occur after he got the sword ;) He's a psyker. He got a high level of biomancy. He can cause mutations in other people and recover himself faster than other Primarchs. He may have learned the lore from the daemon but that doesn't mean he's not a psyker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Not all warp users are psykers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Alright, to stop this going into a circular argument, how about some source citing, guys? Deathwatch, single statement posts are all well and good but please try to write more than that. Seeing consecutive posts where a single, small sentence is posted is getting a little tiring. With the (lack of) information provided, it comes across as uninformed opinion or speculation, rather than reasoned guesswork or a well founded stance. Here's a thought: Prove Fulgrim isn't a psyker. I'm not asserting he is, I just want to hear where you got your information from and why you've come to the conclusion that Fulgrim is not one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I got mine from Reflection Crack'd. He pulls off his feats without any preparations, sacrifices or incantations or whatnot, making his sorcerer status highly unlikely IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 well first of all there has been no proof he was one before the sword thats my point like i said before not all warp users are psykers but all psykers are warp users until someone has said that fulgrim is psyker before the sword ill literally write you are right and im wrong it wouldve been said the first few chapters in fulgrim by other marines wouldnt it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 At the risk of sounding like a broken record: Prove it. Cite sources and cite logical reasoning using examples. "I'm right, you're wrong." doesn't count. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 that statement goes both ways. I'd suggest we keep it at: "we don't know." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 It does indeed go both ways, that I cannot deny, but I'm trying to shake our brother here into providing reasonable posts rather than one-statement-chaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 im sorry that i dont have a good point or and i have no source im just saying thats my point of of view but i think we should agree with blacksad and agree we dont know or i can just agree to disargree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Here was what we know about Fulgrim. Nothing says he was a psyker before he got the sword. Nothing says he wasn't either. He found a possessed sword. That possessed sword planted itself somewhere within his subconscience. Eventually, Fulgrim killed Ferrus Manus. Now, I am going to point out here that there is no description of the daemon sword behaving like a normal daemon weapon. At no point did Fulgrim's abilities ever go beyond the norm. After Fulgrim killed Manus, the sword asked him if he desired oblivion. He said yes and the daemon in the sword took over his body while Fulgrim was put into a painting. Sometime between the events of Istvaan III and A Reflection Crack'd, Fulgrim was able to oust the daemon out and into the painting it loved so much. He was able to sit there, point his hand at a Warhound and make flesh pour out from its insides. Now, I said this was reminiscent of the old Gift of Chaos power and that was why it was likely to be sorcery. That is not a definite fact and is by no means set in stone. Now, there is definitely the possibility that it was an external form of Biomancy and not sorcery. But we won't know a specific one way or the other until one author says so. Moving on. After this, Fulgrim recieved quite a serious amount of torture and was healing some very fast wounds at a very fast pace. Now, it is possible that he just used normal Primarch physiology or it could have been Biomancy. It's unprecedented so it can go one way or the other. Now, I noticed that my comment, "Not all warp users are psykers, but all psykers are warp users" comment was butchered an used as reasoning. I would like to say that this is an observation, not evidence set in stone. This statement is not intended to be used as evidence and if anyone would like to quote, please quote the entirety of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarkassBC Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'm sorry if I can't give words coming from a book or only stories read on Wiki or other forum. 1 - Every primarch was made by the Emperor with warp matter as well as biological. 2 - Except Alpharius, every other Primarch was found by the Emperor following a trace of psychic power (I'm curious about the psychic beacon at the end of Fear to Tread)... I doubt the Emperor was simply lucky to be in the right Expeditionary Fleet every time... 3 - Most of the Primarchs dreamed about the arrival of a shining-gold man. 4 - Emperor and Primarchs are always descripted with an aura of awe around them... they are not seen simply as giants but extremely different from the other... I think it would be a permanent passive power, even unconscious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 sorry i havent worked out all the buttons on this website but it was a good line i had to use it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'm sorry if I can't give words coming from a book or only stories read on Wiki or other forum. 1 - Every primarch was made by the Emperor with warp matter as well as biological. 2 - Except Alpharius, every other Primarch was found by the Emperor following a trace of psychic power (I'm curious about the psychic beacon at the end of Fear to Tread)... I doubt the Emperor was simply lucky to be in the right Expeditionary Fleet every time... 3 - Most of the Primarchs dreamed about the arrival of a shining-gold man. 4 - Emperor and Primarchs are always descripted with an aura of awe around them... they are not seen simply as giants but extremely different from the other... I think it would be a permanent passive power, even unconscious. I forgot Horus was the one who found Alpharius. I wonder. Both the older and newer fluff points to Alpharius being a secretive individual. What if, unlike the other Primarchs, he discovered the psychic beacon and removed it? Or at least masked it? I mean, if two Primarchs can pull off the Shadow(very obvious reference so a very easy cookie to get) for their physical bodies, then why can't they do it for their psyche? I mean, we still don't know too much about Alpharius' homeworld still right? Come to think of it, we still don't know too much about Alpharius either. Just speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleshoes Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 In The First Heretic, during the descriptions of the Primarch Pod crashes, some people have made the case that Alpharius Omegon didn't even land on a planet, but crashed inside of a vessel or station in space. Obviously all speculation. I think the safest assumption again, is that all Primarchs, in one way or another, passive or active, have psychic gifts. Angel Exterminatus forwards this notion with Peturabo's sight and his unbreakable control over his body and essence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 HAfter this, Fulgrim recieved quite a serious amount of torture and was healing some very fast wounds at a very fast pace. Now, it is possible that he just used normal Primarch physiology or it could have been Biomancy. It's unprecedented so it can go one way or the other. Perturabo notices that Fulgrim heals faster than a Primarch should. Moving on from Fulgrim, even Guilliman showcased a psyker ability albeit much more subtle. He picked up the daemon virus like librarians in his legion but couldn't name it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Ah, I haven't Angel Exterminatus yet so I was unaware of that. Definitely adds to the Biomancy theory. Out of curiosity, where was Gulliman's power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Out of curiosity, where was Gulliman's power? Accounting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Out of curiosity, where was Gulliman's power? Accounting. C'mon, we all know the proper answer is LOGISTICS! WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Out of curiosity, where was Gulliman's power? Accounting. C'mon, we all know the proper answer is LOGISTICS! WLK Nah, that's what UPS is for. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Out of curiosity, where was Gulliman's power? Accounting. C'mon, we all know the proper answer is LOGISTICS! WLK Nah, that's what UPS is for. :D I think UPS wasnt available in 30k...I havent found them referenced in a book yet! :D WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Definitely Logistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Out of curiosity, where was Gulliman's power? Accounting. C'mon, we all know the proper answer is LOGISTICS! WLK Nah, that's what UPS is for. :P I think UPS wasnt available in 30k...I havent found them referenced in a book yet! ;) WLK Sure you did, they were called "Ultramarine Poo-poo Scouts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Fulgrim is not psychic, one doesn't have to be psychic to expel a daemon from one's body, the Exorcists chapter all do it as an initiation ritual and they aren't all psykers like the Grey Knights. Mortarion is definitely not psychic, he hates "witches" and has never shown any psychic ability as far as I know. Just like Horus, or Dorn, or Perturabo, or Ferrus, or well, most everyone other than Magnus, Sanguinius, and Curze, and of those the only one that actually knows how to use his gifts in Magnus, the rest are kind of victims of their latent ability more than anything. Oh and I suppose Lorgar might count as well, I don't really remember exactly but I think ADB might have made him a psyker at some point. Oh and Angron. He's definitely a psyker, I mean a mountain falls on him and he survives, and since we have established in this thread that any kind of talent or special ability can only come from psychic powers, he is obviously a psyker, just don't tell him that if you like your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 You mean the Exorcists have their minds locked away into a painting and they expel the daemons from their bodies while they are still trapped in the painting? Oh I don't know how I missed that when I read that they share their bodies with a daemon and simply push it out. I totally did not realize that they fully gave over their bodies, left the bodies and then came back. You're so totally right Rain! I will never doubt you again. And Perturabo's warp sight is not a psychic power at all because the only people who can see into the warp are psykers and Navigators. I totally forgot that everyone can do it.[/sarcasm] Don't worry, I'll be serious about Angron. First, let's start with Dorn. Curze beat him to a bloody pulp. So, Primarchs can be beaten up. Curze took a sword through the back and had his throat slashed and was put into a coma. So there are extents to what damage Primarchs can physically take. So, since I'm pretty sure a mountain falling on someone's head surpasses the other two in terms of kinetic force(I need a qualified physicist to confirm that theory for me) so unless Angron is Superman in disguise, it should have at the very least, put him into some sort of life threatening condition. But what did he do? He literally shook it off and then went into a rigorous exercise of killing people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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