The Thetus Crusade (Indomitus - a Space Hulk Expansion)

[Firepower]

Yay.

I still don't understand all this one bit though.

[Cypher-xv]

Yay. :tu:

I still don't understand all this one bit though. :mellow:

Now we get to be used as a propaganda tool to illuminate the ignorant masses on the glory that is space hulk.

[teblin]

Painfully huge bright red text is grounds for a paddlin'

 

Vote cast, even though I don't understand what any of this is about.

 

Man, I sound even older and grumpier than usual....

 

Them negative waves, Mor-ee-are-ity!

[Brother Hadafix]

Um ... no ... a codex captain is most definitely equal to a marshal.

It goes High Marshal, Marshal, Castellan. A Marshal is almost a Chapter Master in his own right, a Castellan would be more akin to a Captain. A Marshal will lead a Crusade with Chapter Master levels of responsibility, while a Castellan leads a Fighting Company which sound much more like a Captain to me. P15 of the C:BT in case you want to dust off your old copy.

Repent brother, for heretics must burn.

On the plus side, I guess this means we get bragging rights...

[Kristoff]

Um ... no ... a codex captain is most definitely equal to a marshal.

It goes High Marshal, Marshal, Castellan. A Marshal is almost a Chapter Master in his own right, a Castellan would be more akin to a Captain. A Marshal will lead a Crusade with Chapter Master levels of responsibility, while a Castellan leads a Fighting Company which sound much more like a Captain to me. P15 of the C:BT in case you want to dust off your old copy.

Repent brother, for heretics must burn.

On the plus side, I guess this means we get bragging rights...

Actually, it could go either way. A Marshall isn't in command of an entire chapter, but some Crusades are larger than a small chapter, while other Crusades number smaller than a Company.

Stat-wise, though, a Castellan is equal to a Captain, and a Marshall to a Codex Chapter Master.

[Brother Tyler]

Oh, I see what the problem is. You're getting confused between the size of the units that are led and the relative places in Chapter hierarchy, and there is probably some element of bias towards the Black Templars also affecting your interpretation. My old copy of the Black Templars codex isn't dusty at all, and neither are my White Dwarf articles or Codex: Armageddon. Let me clear it up for you.

 

In a Codex Chapter the Chapter Master leads the Chapter. This is equivalent to the High Marshal of the Black Templars.

 

The Captain leads a Company, which is comparable (not equivalent) to a Crusade. A Company in a Codex Chapter has a fixed size, whereas a Crusade can vary in size from as few as 50 men to several hundred. Regardless, the Captain of a Codex Chapter is equivalent to a Marshal of the Black Templars.

 

There is no longer a subordinate officer for a Codex Chapter, though the example back in the old days was a Lieutenant. However, the Space Wolves have an equivalent in the Wolf Guard Battle Leader.

 

Going back to companies and crusades, there are two very important things to remember.

 

First, the Codex Company isn't the standard operating unit of a Space Marine Chapter. Space Marine forces task organize elements from multiple companies and the armoury into detachments. These detachments might be smaller than a normal company or might be equivalent to several companies in size. Sound familiar? The detachment will be led by one of the Captains, and there might be other Captains serving within the detachment (especially when the detachment is very large). The Forge World Badab War books do a very good job of illustrating this principle. The Salamanders sent a force larger than a company in size, the force led by a Captain (Mir'san) and with senior officers drawn from veteran training instructors. The Caracharadons Astra force was roughly equivalent to six companies and led by the First Captain. The Exorcists force was equivalent to 5 and a half companies, led by the captain of the 3rd company. Et cetera. So the crusades of the Black Templars have some strong similarities to the detachments that other Chapters might send (and there are definitely some differences, too, but those have more to do with the nature of the Black Templars).

 

Yes, players most often associate Crusades with being much larger than a standard Company, but that doesn't mean that a Marshal is "better" or "senior" to a Codex Captain. He merely has a larger span of control if you look at a Codex Captain only in the context of the company he leads (instead of considering an operational detachment that he might also lead). Hence the Castellans who oversee the subordinate elements in much the same manner a Wolf Guard Battle Leader leads elements of a Space Wolf Great Company on behalf of the Wolf Lord to which he owes fealty. Back in 3rd edition the Codex Chapters had a "Leader" who was basically a very senior Veteran Sergeant, and this leader would lead a small detachment from the larger unit commanded by the Captain. That is probably the only analogy we have for the Castellan in the context of Codex Chapters.

 

More importantly, I'm drawing upon stat lines and roles. The stat line of a Marshal is equivalent to a Captain. Actually, I suppose it's only fair to point out the fact that Codex Captains are better in assault than Black Templars Marshals (though it's probably a safe bet that any update of the Black Templars codex will fix that little disparity, putting the Marshals on an equal footing with their Codex counterparts). In fact, the Wolf Guard Battle Leader has the same stat line as the Castellan, further demonstrating the relative roles.

 

In short, when comparing the officers of Codex Chapters and the Black Templars, don't be confused by the names and sizes of the units they lead. You really have to look at their capabilities, ranks, and relative seniority. The Marshals of the Black Templars are equivalent to the Captains of Codex Chapters.

[Brother Tyler]

Okay, now it's time to get to work on the campaign. I'm trying to find something lore-based to build upon. Neither the Black Templars codex nor the rulebook give any occasions on which the Black Templars have faced Tyranids (limiting my searches to the history part of the codex and the timeline in the rulebook, so there might be some other nuggets scattered throughout either/both of those publications that I haven't found yet). The rulebook does give us a Tyranid event without naming the Imperium's forces, and this might be a decent opening. It's on page 175 and took place in 138997.M41. The event is called the return of the Great Devourer and describes twin tendrils of Hive Fleet Leviathan striking at the underbelly of the Imperium through Segmentums Tempestus, Ultima, and Solar. This event is also referred to as the Third Tyrannic War. Looking at the inside back cover of the Black Templars codex, the Garon Crusade (132 members) and the Athalor Crusade (334 members) might work.

 

The Tyranids codex describes the Crusade of Wrath, with Marshal Helbrecht of the Black Templars leading a force composed of elements of 15 Chapters. That might provide good fodder, and much like the Space Hulk missions, features a hero who later goes on to bigger and better things (the Librarian, Calistarius, later becoming Mephiston and Helbrecht later becoming High Marshal). That crusade took place in 997.M41 against Hive Fleet Leviathan (though the Black Templars codex tells us that Helbrecht was elected High Marshal in 989.M41, so either we have a disparity or Helbrecht was High Marshal when he led the Crusade of Wrath). Interestingly enough, the rulebook lists another Crusade of Wrath in 888.M41, pitting the Black Templars against the Word Bearers. With that, I'm not really inclined to use the event in the Tyranids codex. We can always make an event up.

Note that the Black Templars Space Marines used will be limited to Sword Brothers equipped as the models in Space Hulk, replacing the filthy witch Librarian with a Marshal (Captain). We're also working on rules for Apothecaries and Chaplains, but those are optional. With the Black Templars chosen as the poster Chapter for the project, we'll probably work in a mission that includes a Chaplain.

 

Note that our goal is to write a campaign whose missions provide Space Hulk players with more replayability. While the storyline is going to revolve around the Black Templars, things will be kept to a point where any other Chapter could be used in their place. The official mission/campaign development will be conducted in the Indomitus forum (follow the link in my signature).

[tvih]

Well, the Crusade of Wrath audio drama will be released in September by the looks of it, and it ought to bring some clarity to the issue (or maybe not). But being six months off, I reckon it's too late to be of use for this particular project's background info.

[Zeruvar]

Im curious, Is this a fanmade project or official work?

 

I'll check the link further later when i get off work, but a quick answer here would be appreciated

[Brother Tyler]

Im curious, Is this a fanmade project or official work?

 

I'll check the link further later when i get off work, but a quick answer here would be appreciated

The Crusade(s) of Wrath is (are) official works.

 

The Indomitus Project is a fan-made work that is intended to expand upon the official 3rd edition Space Hulk rules, missions, and campaign. While I'd originally intended to simply provide the old 1st & 2nd edition missions/campaigns as part of the Indomitus Project, I subsequently changed my mind because of some niggling doubts about how Games Workshop would react (and I secretly hope that GW does something with those old missions). You can see the work on the Indomitus Project by following the link in my signature.

 

+EDIT+

 

And while I was tempted to close this discussion in order to focus all work into the Indomitus Project sub-forum discussions, I'm going to leave it open in order to maintain visibility to Black Templars fans that might not otherwise find their way into that project. If anyone replies here with content relevant to that project, I'll simply quote them in the appropriate discussion (or point them to an extant discussion/reply if they are asking a question that has already been answered).

[Riffer77]

Hive Thetus Crusade. They fought Tyranids in cramped corridors

Here is a link to the lexicanum: 

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hive_Thetus_Crusade#.UTSQRTA2Y-d

 

I could look into my old rulebooks(3:rd-especially) to see if I can locate anything, but I suspect you have already done that?

[Brother Tyler]

No, I hadn't seen the Thetus stuff. I'll have to mosey around the GW site to see where the source article has moved (since the link at Lexicanum 40K no longer works).

[Marshal Wilhelm]

 

The Tyranids codex describes the Crusade of Wrath, with Marshal Helbrecht of the Black Templars leading a force composed of elements of 15 Chapters. That might provide good fodder, and much like the Space Hulk missions, features a hero who later goes on to bigger and better things (the Librarian, Calistarius, later becoming Mephiston and Helbrecht later becoming High Marshal). 

 

 

You didn't just compare our High Marshal's progression from Marshal with a Witch who becomes a Daemon Prince, did you?! o_O

[Brother Tyler]

Well, when you put it that way...

[Riffer77]

No, I hadn't seen the Thetus stuff. I'll have to mosey around the GW site to see where the source article has moved (since the link at Lexicanum 40K no longer works).

 

But the link that I posted workes. Here is the text on Hive Thetus Crusade from 40K lexicanum:[/size]

 

 

On the planet Neveria II a small-but-dangerous cult of heretics had to be removed. An investigation by an agent of the Ordo Hereticus and a covert strike by theDeathwatch discovered the influence behind the cult: a broodlord had managed to infiltrate and infect the minds of a large group of inhabitants of Hive Thetus. This combined with years of crossbreeding had produced physical and psychic abominations to Mankind.

It became obvious that Hive Thetus was becoming a staging ground for a dreaded Tyranid vanguard force. The Xenos influence had to be removed and the Hive had to be cleansed. The Black Templars called to the challenge of returning the Emperor's Light to Hive Thetus with righteous zeal.

The Broodlord and its followers hid themselves deep within the Hive's blackened depths. It would take some considerable time and effort to removed them. The labyrinth of tunnels, accessways, ducts, and forgotten cities proved to be a deadly and unique battlefield. It was here that the Black Templars fought terrifying battles in cramped corridors against the Tyranid menace. Slowly and at great cost, each sector was cleared from the bottom up. Hive Thetus, and the entire world of Nevaria II with it, was made relatively safe thanks to the efforts of the Black Templars.

Sources

• Black Templars Crusades, Games Workshop 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/0/07/Black_Templars_-_Thetus_banner.jpg/180px-Black_Templars_-_Thetus_banner.jpg

[Cypher-xv]

Interesting I've never seen it or just don't remember. Brother Tyler has there been any progression on this exciting project?

[Brother Tyler]

I received the Forge World bits. I'm just waiting for the mission development. Things are a bit hectic for me right now, so things might be off to a slow start. I anticipate a bit more free time in May, though.

[Brother Tyler]

Okay, we're moving forward with the campaign/mission development. You can see the initial guidance here.

 

I haven't begun working on the models yet since I'm focused on getting a kill-team finished, but they are on the short list of things to be done soon. In the meantime, I'd love to see if anyone else has pictures of suitable models (based largely on this topic - expanded characters - and this topic - Chaos Space Marines, but this lists the generic set of models and their loadouts).

[Honda]

I would offer up Master of Sanctity Hesse for service

[Brother Tyler]

Honda (and anyone else that has suitable Black Templars terminators painted up) - I'd love to see your minis posted to the Indomitus Hobbyist Showcase.

As far as the minis that will be used for the pictures in our actual product, my current plan is to assemble and paint my own. If someone else has appropriate minis and the 3rd edition Space Hulk game and is willing to take pictures of sufficient quality to include in the book, I'm not at all opposed. My only problem with that is that my incentive to get a decent Black Templars army painted is removed (since I'll also be painting some power armoured models for the Thetus Crusade missions in the larger Thetus Crusade campaign project (will expand upon our Indomitus missions with some Zone Mortalis missions. I'm sure I'll get over it, though.

And to get over all of the doom and gloom that the Black Templars faithful are feeling with the impending roll-up into Codex: Space Marines (I'm not a fan of the move, either, but I can see possibilities for GW to do it right without costing the Black Templars any of their distinctive character - fingers crossed), I'm giving this project a kick in the pants. I'm focused on getting some missions developed. Discussion for that can be found here, and I hope it doesn't end up being a soliloquy.

Note that I've changed the topic title since the issue has been decided.

[Firepower]

What qualifies as an "appropriate" mini, exactly? I've still got my little cadre of assault terminators. I haven't got Space Hulk, though.

[Honda]

Will do...

[Brother Tyler]

What qualifies as an "appropriate" mini, exactly? I've still got my little cadre of assault terminators. I haven't got Space Hulk, though.

First, the weapons. You can see a breakdown of the minis in the 3rd edition game (and their Chaos Space Marine counterparts - ignore them) here.

 

Second is the painting. Black Templars miniatures for the Thetus Crusade will need to have the campaign badge shown above. Actually, I'd like a slightly sexier version since the one shown above is obviously hand-painted. Perhaps someone can whip up some decals that can be downloaded and printed...?

 

That's only for the minis to be used in the Indomitus rulebook and mission book, though. Any Black Templars Terminator minis are welcome in the Hobbyist Showcase linked above.

[Das Bee]

Put mine up from the ETL :)

[Brother Tyler]

Put mine up from the ETL

Thanks! They look great. I'm looking forward to seeing more Terminators added to the showcase.