Pre-Heresy Raptors ideas

[Caran Lyg]

Hey all

 

Relating to my earlier post about a more heroic vision of Night Lords, I'm trying to solidify an idea for my own army, specifically a Raptor squad. I don't yet know exactly how I'm going to utilize them rule-wise and that's really a secondary part to the look (rule of cool>rule of game). 

 

I'll start with the inspiration:

In addition to all the great Night Lords books, I've been looking at some engravings by Gustav Dore of Paradise Lost that really capture how I feel about the Night Lords. Noble, tragic, with the classical aesthetic the Heresy-era has a flair for. Here's a link: http://www.danshort.com/pl/

 

Here's my thoughts on the Raptors:

I'm thinking fallen angels. Basically Sanguinary Guard legs, bodies, jump packs, and Dark Eldar Scourge wings. Kit them up with some CC goodies and we're good to go. I'd really just like some other peoples' opinions on how they think it'll look. Also, would using the new Raptor bits be better? I kind of like the legs, with the lightning and talons and all, but I don't know if it'll fit with the look so well. Some of the Raptor weapons look neat as well. I'm also wondering how their heads should be. 

 

I'd really appreciate some thoughts on the matter and any suggestions, especially on bits choice. I'm ok using non-GW (especially if it means it's easier on my wallet) but I'd really prefer using plastic or resin. Looking forward to hearing back!

[Captain Semper]

Here're my thoughts:

 

- The Fallen Angel theme entails the notion that at some past point there was a semblance of nobility or higher moral status from which one would/could fall.

- The NLs do not (in my opinion) have such a background. Even during the Heresy there were hard-core amoral killers - not to mention sadists and torturers. Therefore, as a whole, the NLs are not good candidates for the Fallen theme.

- Yes exceptions can always be found and even behaviours that could on some level be recognised as noble can be attributed to certain NLs. In this context you may want to make a Talos-like unit, i.e. the unit leader that follows a higher ideal - instead of the base behaviour of maiming and killing because that's what we do... But remember, in Talos' First Claw he was arguably the only one to share such a "higher" cause.

- In any case, the NL aesthetics do not adhere to the elegant or arty elelments that the BA or DE models seem to adopt. Straight forward brutality and practicality is the order of the day - even for those who may follow "higher" ideals. So if you go down the "elegant" road you are (again in my opinion) going against the established imagery for NLs.

- The new raptor bits seem ideal in my view.

 

Having said that, your idea is your idea - if that's the way you want to do it go right ahead. It'll be a fairly unique and interesting take on the NLs and the final result could be very rewarding!

 

So what do others think?

[Caran Lyg]

Thanks for the thoughts, Cap'n. I didn't mean to impugn the Dark Angels' "fallen theme and I hope it doesn't upset any of the First Legion That being said, i think it's a neat comparison as they have been drawn side by side in the recent HH stories involving the Thramas Crusade.

In any case, I don't believe that the initial Night Lords, the Terrans and perhaps the first Nostromans, were the murderers, rapists, and thugs they would later induct after Kurze left. I'm looking to depict a true "pre-heresy" feel to the legion, meaning before a lot of the excesses of the Eighth take place and certainly before the influx of criminals into the legion. I'm not looking to have a "warband" as much as a force from an Expeditionary Fleet (they may be similar in effect, but I feel it's an important distinction). I feel like it's improbable in the earlier part of the Great Crusade, especially when Kurze is only just found, that the Night Lords are already so blackened. I feel like they had the same spirit that other legions may have had and there is no reason that some couldn't have been just as lofty as the Emperor's Children or Blood Angels, but just like those legions had a dark side that was a source both of secret pride and secret shame. I'd like to think of these guys as having known the high ideals of the early Crusade and then seeing, perhaps, what the future will hold and having a grim attitude toward it, so maybe more Blood than Dark Angels.

I do appreciate your notes though. Perhaps I will use the Raptor legs (claws or no claws?) and some of the "Chaos-y" shoulder pads with the more ornate trim and without actual Chaos markings to show both ornamentation without being too "elegant". Does that seem like a fair compromise?

Also, on a larger note for the whole force, I'm thinking it would help their more positive image if I had them fighting xenos more than other humans. It's less monstrous to use terror tactics on non-humans than your fellows, right? Especially if they're one of the more sinister or decadent races. I'd love thoughts on that as well.

[Captain Semper]

Let me explain my position a bit further. The "Fallen" theme is a recurring theme in 40k not only among space marines but even in other races (Eldar and even Tau come to mind). The Imperium is a story of "Fall" in itself and a number of its components are smaller Falls within Falls. All Chaos Marines can be considered a "Fall" story and it is certainly not a Dark Angels exclusivity... In fact the best example of a Fall would by the Emperors Children in my view! And, come to think of it, they fit the "elegance" theme more than any other faction I would think...

As regards the NLs, their main theme is that their Fall was probably the least spectacular, if it actually happened at all. What I mean is, they were not very high up to begin with. Even when most legions were virtuous and loyal, with codes of honour and full of higher ideals, the stock the NLs were recruiting from was contaminated with the dregs of human society... And not for a year but for as long as Kurze was in charge (or shortly after anyway)... So the noble elements were not really a defining characteristic of the Legion (quite the opposite) and, in my opinion, we only accept their existence under the general edict that in 40k everything's possible.

And it is... The example you mention above could provide a plausible (if uncharacteristic) instance of a NL force with more noble traits. That's why my advise is to go with it, you'll be covering a rare niche and produce a unique result!

Got to go now but will add to it later on! Keep the colours flying!

EDIT: If you're going for a pre-Heresy force, you could say they are indeed an expeditionary force locked in a protracted campaign agains Xenos thus being unaffected by the gradual (or was it rapid?) corruption of the NLs. I think that the (expensive) FW minis would be ideal to define the pre-Heresy feel - especially the jepacks. Chaos was not in the cards as yet... Just stay away from MkVII

If you want to have this force brought fwd to 40k then it's a bit more complicated. They'd be more like renegades than outright Chaos Marines, but still considered Traitors by the Imperium. Here you need to decide how do they view themselves and more importantly where do they stand on Kurze... do they hate the Imperium right back? or do they hate their former brothers and Kurze's legacy? Be that as it may they would unavoidably have a pirate profile and probably pirate look as well. Here you might want to mix more "modern" armour scavanged from the battelfield - or even a Chaosy look as they clash with Chaos warbands...

Look forward to see which way you'll go!

[Peredyne]

My take on the whole thing is that "pre-heresy" assault units were just that. Assault Units. Not Raptors. The Raptors would have come along much later. As such, I would go with pre-heresy styling for the raptors (MkII, IV and V armor variants).