Quotes that Struck you from the Heresy Series

[Schnabel]

When the Emperor dies under his axes, when his final thought is of how the Great Crusade was all in pathetic futility, and when his last sight is Angron's iron smile... then the Master of Mankind will learn what Angron has known since he picked up his first blade.

Freedom is the only thing worth fighting for.

That is why tyrants always fall.

 

Lord of the Red Sands

 

Edit-typo

[OrionNexus]

You’re still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper.’

[striker8]

"I was there the day Horus slew the Emperor". Such an iconic line in the series, and instantly the one that springs to mind.

 

 

 

That is probably the most iconic quote that sets the stage for everything to come.

 

I firmly believe that when the time comes for the final showdown on the Vengeful Spirit that same line should be uttered by Lokken as the last sentence on the last page but with the names reversed. Thus bringing the epic full circle.

[Kol Saresk]

I don't know. It's kind of like when the "Second star on the right and straight on till morning" line got used in Undiscovered Country. The context and everything really makes it hard to be used again. If done right, it'll truly be epic. But let someone like William Shatner write the script and it'll blow up in your face.

[Veteran Sergeant]

"I was there the day Horus slew the Emperor". Such an iconic line in the series, and instantly the one that springs to mind.

 

Perhaps my favourite comes from Angron, in Betrayer. A fantastic book that changes our perceptions of the lord of the Red Sands. In particular, when we find out more about Angron on Nunceria and the subsequent attack by the Ultramarines. After Lorgar breaks off from fighting Guilliman, and Roboute diverts his attention to Angron and calls him childish, Angron (understandably) goes nuts.

 

"Childish? The people of your world named you Great One. The people of mine called me Slave. Which one of us landed on a paradise of civilisation to be raised by a foster father, Roboute? Which one was given armies to lead after training in the halls of the Macraggian high-riders? Which one of us inherited a strong cultured kingdom?

 

And which one of us had to rise up against a kingdom with nothing but a horde of starving slaves? Which one of us was a child enslaved on a world of monsters, with his brain cut up by carving knives?

 

Listen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom that enslaves you, no matter that their armies overshadow yours by ten thousand to one. You know nothing of courage. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy of others. You know nothing of honour"

 

It's a long quote, granted! But it speaks volumes and adds a lot of depth to the image of Angron we were used to of KILLMAIMBURN

And the irony of it being that Guilliman lost everything in a revolt and had to win back his planet. And he freed all of the slaves on his planet too. Angron can complain about how bad his childhood was all he wants, but his bites back at Guilliman are empty. Angron wallowed in his pain and regret, defining himself by it. Guilliman overcame his.

 

Maybe that's the root of Angron's envy. That Guilliman was able to finish his war before the Emperor arrived, and Angron was not.

[Greyall]

Guilliman did NOT lose everything. He arrived at the head of an army and found the Senate besieged and soldiers pledged to a minority roaming the streets and pillaging. He faced insufficient opposition and wasn't beamed up to see his soldiers (again, an entire army and not a small group) die butchered.

 

I'm with you on Angron having some whiny moments, but it might be us who are wrong. Angron has irremovable hate-cables pumping bloody thought into his brain at all time. Still he manages to deliver some actually pretty well-thought speeches to both Russ and Guilliman, but asking a born fighter trained and tampered to kill to put too much thought and care into administration, politics and, well, mercy...that might be too much.

 

Like him or not, but Angron's not a sane individual. And the only thing that could've helped him - his Legionnaire sons - actually came too late because his father delivered the final nail to his mind-coffin. 

[Sevatar]

I think this sums up one of the best lines in the HH in my opinion. All from TV tropes.

 

"You’re still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper."

 

 

Actually, I believe this is the Crowning Moment of Awesome to ADB. This only shows the depth of Angron, he was not the "Kill!Maim!Burn" character that many expected. He was strong, one of the mightiest, but he was also weak. Greatest warrior of the primarchs. However, he kept blaming others for the unfairness and the wrongs that affected his life. The Butcher's Nails that was installed in his brainn for instance. He also implanted these on his sons, in a complete act of hypocrisy. Not only that, but he seems to ignore how much the other primarchs struggled. Look at Sanguinius, born on a radioactive world with mutant cannibals. Mortarion, Kurze, Corax. Hell, even Guilliman who was born "lucky", Angron simply do not seem to acknowledge how much work was put into the Ultramar empire. Like there was nothing of importance or hardship in building and mantaining such achievement. The only thing the Red Angel did through his life? He blamed others.

[Kol Saresk]

Where was the hypocrisy exactly? IIRC After Desh'ea showed that it wa the War Hounds' idea to take in the Nails, not Angron's. he didn't hammer the Nails into their skull, they asked for it.

[Spinsanity]

Where was the hypocrisy exactly? IIRC After Desh'ea showed that it wa the War Hounds' idea to take in the Nails, not Angron's. he didn't hammer the Nails into their skull, they asked for it.

I don't remember reading about their intent to get the nails in After De'Shea; the first time I remember earing about it was in Betrayer, when Khârn explains to Argel Tal that they asked for the nails in the hope it would finally let them understand their primarch and finally bridge the gap of understanding separating the Legion and their Primarch.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Where was the hypocrisy exactly? IIRC After Desh'ea showed that it wa the War Hounds' idea to take in the Nails, not Angron's. he didn't hammer the Nails into their skull, they asked for it.

I don't remember reading about their intent to get the nails in After De'Shea; the first time I remember earing about it was in Betrayer, when Khârn explains to Argel Tal that they asked for the nails in the hope it would finally let them understand their primarch and finally bridge the gap of understanding separating the Legion and their Primarch.

 

 

Just looked through it, you are absolutely right. Still, the World Eaters literally asked for it.

[Veteran Sergeant]

. Angron has irremovable hate-cables pumping bloody thought into his brain at all time.

Did the fluff change on this? Because I thought the Emprah wanted to pull the Nails out, and he refused. And then he went and implanted the same torture devices into his Legion despite being told not to. They were only irremovable to the lesser forms of the Space Marines, not to him as a primarch. His were left in by choice.

Angron was an unstable lunatic who should have been put down like a rabid dog. Not some kind of warrior poet, lol. But hey, what would a late 80s/early 90s cartoon universe be without a few cartoon characters to populate it? Honestly, the biggest problem with the World Eaters has been this slow escalation of poorly thought out fluff that inflated their cartooniness even more. I've always said the World Eaters are the coolest to model and paint and the worst when it comes to fluff and character. But I think that's exactly because they are awful cartoon character Space Marines.

[Kol Saresk]

It was a bit of both. Angron refused to have the Nails removed. The Emperor conducted research into finding out how to remove them.

 

One of the Mechanicus priests who conducted the research into the Nails "said"(more like he was asked questions and he answered what he was able to while leaving some very obvious inferences) that the research had been cancelled and that what they did know is that even if Angron wanted to have the Nails removed, they couldn't be done so without killing him. His standard physiology was already too different from the average human and the Nails made it even worse.

 

Interpret the "change" as you will.

[Saa]

I've scoured my HH collection but I'm certain the following line is attributed to Horus (paraphrased).

 

'There is no such thing as evil, only perspectives'.

 

Always struck me as an immensely powerful line.

 

Saa

 

....or something like that

[Wade Garrett]

All Angron did was blame others? I wonder.

 

I wonder how the mighty Battle King of Maccrage would have reacted, if immediately in the wake of Konor's murder he had been dragged away from his armies, leaving his troops to die without him and his world under the boot of tyrants.

 

How the noble Lion would bear it if just before his knights stormed the fortress of the Order, he was snatched off to fight more important battles with Luther and his sword brothers discarded like mere chaff.

 

If somebody breaks your legs with a baseball bat, it's not a character flaw to be a bit hacked off at them.

[Gree]

I think this sums up one of the best lines in the HH in my opinion. All from TV tropes.

 

"You’re still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper."

 

 

Actually, I believe this is the Crowning Moment of Awesome to ADB. This only shows the depth of Angron, he was not the "Kill!Maim!Burn" character that many expected. He was strong, one of the mightiest, but he was also weak. Greatest warrior of the primarchs. However, he kept blaming others for the unfairness and the wrongs that affected his life. The Butcher's Nails that was installed in his brainn for instance. He also implanted these on his sons, in a complete act of hypocrisy. Not only that, but he seems to ignore how much the other primarchs struggled. Look at Sanguinius, born on a radioactive world with mutant cannibals. Mortarion, Kurze, Corax. Hell, even Guilliman who was born "lucky", Angron simply do not seem to acknowledge how much work was put into the Ultramar empire. Like there was nothing of importance or hardship in building and mantaining such achievement. The only thing the Red Angel did through his life? He blamed others.

 

I'm not saying the other Primarchs had it easy, but none of that had it as bad as Angron did. None of them had anything like the Butcher's Nails implanted into their skull, driving them insane with rage and pain. None of them was snatched away from their fellow warriors on the eve of battle against their will.

 

Guilliman putting in alot of work is a good testament to effort, but he never had his mind pumped constantly full of rage. He was raised as a prince in a prosperous empire of worlds. (''Paradise'' is the word often used to describe Ultramar) He underwent harsh military training and lost his father, but he still had far more than an insane, mentally broken slave did.

 

Even Corax, who was similar to Angron in many ways, was allowed to return his sanity and friends when he assumed command of a Legion.

[Tyrannicide]

. Angron has irremovable hate-cables pumping bloody thought into his brain at all time.

Did the fluff change on this? Because I thought the Emprah wanted to pull the Nails out, and he refused. And then he went and implanted the same torture devices into his Legion despite being told not to. They were only irremovable to the lesser forms of the Space Marines, not to him as a primarch. His were left in by choice.

Angron was an unstable lunatic who should have been put down like a rabid dog. Not some kind of warrior poet, lol. But hey, what would a late 80s/early 90s cartoon universe be without a few cartoon characters to populate it? Honestly, the biggest problem with the World Eaters has been this slow escalation of poorly thought out fluff that inflated their cartooniness even more. I've always said the World Eaters are the coolest to model and paint and the worst when it comes to fluff and character. But I think that's exactly because they are awful cartoon character Space Marines.

You, my friend, have obviously not read Betrayer.

Just a guess. But it's awesome. Guaranteed to change your perspective on the XII.

[Veteran Sergeant]

. Angron has irremovable hate-cables pumping bloody thought into his brain at all time.

Did the fluff change on this? Because I thought the Emprah wanted to pull the Nails out, and he refused. And then he went and implanted the same torture devices into his Legion despite being told not to. They were only irremovable to the lesser forms of the Space Marines, not to him as a primarch. His were left in by choice.

Angron was an unstable lunatic who should have been put down like a rabid dog. Not some kind of warrior poet, lol. But hey, what would a late 80s/early 90s cartoon universe be without a few cartoon characters to populate it? Honestly, the biggest problem with the World Eaters has been this slow escalation of poorly thought out fluff that inflated their cartooniness even more. I've always said the World Eaters are the coolest to model and paint and the worst when it comes to fluff and character. But I think that's exactly because they are awful cartoon character Space Marines.

You, my friend, have obviously not read Betrayer.

Just a guess. But it's awesome. Guaranteed to change your perspective on the XII.

No, I did. And I applaud ADB's valiant effort to try to make three dimensional characters out of the World Eaters... but that novel did little more than highlight exactly how silly and cartoony the entire GW concept of the World Eaters is. The characters were often incredibly contradictory in their behaviors, especially any time an attempt was to humanize them, and their mindsets and tactics in the book were so incredibly wasteful, you wondered just exactly how the World Eaters had managed to remain a viable fighting force and had not just simply ground itself into dust.

I honestly believe, and I always have, that the World Eaters are just impossible to make into believable characters. A lesser author would have failed spectacularly, so it says something that ADB's novel only came across as inauthentic to the source material, and not just ridiculously silly. But that's about the best I can say for Betrayer. The battle scenes were just long B-Movies, full of protagonists that win only because the story needs them to, not because any of their actions suggest it is possible. The interactions between the characters in non-battle scenes felt fake, because the characters do one thing one moment, and another thing another moment. The Nails become a gimmick. Affecting them at some points, and being conspicuously absent for any needed moments of clarity. These are Chaos Marines from a bygone era where it was okay to be Angryon the Primarch of the Chaos God of Being Angry. Trying to make them fit rationally into the story and universe... is a wasted effort. They are much better off just being the background, faceless supporting cast. Who are angry and evil because they are angry and evil. It's like a zombie movie. The less time you take explaining the zombies and how they came to be zombies, the better the movie is.

With a clean slate, I'm sure the World Eaters could be wrestled into some kind of believable role in the universe. But GW's writers spent 20 years developing them into cartoon villains. Battle for the Abyss had fairly authentic World Eaters. And, well, I probably don't have to point out just how awful that book was, lol.

Basically, Angron and Khârn could easily have been sympathetic tragic characters. But that's just not the way GW wrote them. They're cartoon characters. So attempts to un-write the World Eaters mythology leaves them feeling rather inauthentic.

[GhostMalone]

See that to me personally is very close minded, you need to have depth to characters and see them in a realistic setting. Angron was a pshyco that hasn't changed, but to see the pain he's put through day by day and second by second is what makes them come to life.

 

The valiant struggle to emulate your father, earn his love and respect even at the cost of everything you've worked for and then see that those actions of honour pride and love caused your fall from grace

[Spinsanity]

Did the fluff change on this? Because I thought the Emprah wanted to pull the Nails out, and he refused. And then he went and implanted the same torture devices into his Legion despite being told not to. They were only irremovable to the lesser forms of the Space Marines, not to him as a primarch. His were left in by choice.

So one post you say you don't recall the fluff changing and the next you say you pretended not knowing just because you didn't like it?

 

So, you read Betrayer, and then because you never liked the World Eaters you dismissed the whole book and now act as though it was never written and act all surprised when we mention it? I'm sorry but that's pretty childish (and yes, I understand this sounds condescending, I just can't find a more appropriate word).

[Kol Saresk]

Guys, let's not turn this into a witch hunt.

[GhostMalone]

I know I know... Personally I hated the WE pre betrayer and the short story with Khârn on the ruins of prospero, but with the heresy you need to adapt your opinions as it progresses.

 

I'm starting to love the white scars and am coming around to the sallies, as the heresy continues we may at the end be at a stand still where we can't fault the traitors or loyalists and we all go from black and white to grey.

[Veteran Sergeant]

It's not closed minded. The World Eaters don't fit in a realistic setting because they aren't realistic characters. Nothing about the characters makes any sense in a larger context, so it's impossible to give them any realistic depth. What it ends up feeling is forced and fake. 

 

I mean, I don't don't judge anyone poorly for liking the book because I know it's license fiction of a cartoon universe, not sophisticated literature, but it definitely didn't feel "realistic" at all to me. It felt like a bunch of actors giving a mediocre performance impersonating World Eaters. I have a fairly refined and trained literary eye though, so my judgments are always going to be a bit more critical and harsh and than others. /shrug

 

If I forgot details of the novel changing the fluff about the Nails being irremovable, well, then I apologize. Honestly, it wasn't like I revisited it ever. But calling me childish for not liking a book is, well, childish and should be beneath the level of discourse on this forum. Take that crap to Dakka where it belongs. 

[GhostMalone]

I'm sorry for saying close minded. I understand your stance yet I feel that as you said with them being cartoonish isn't it good to see how they got to that place in the 40k universe.

 

To see what the nails in a wider context do and the ascension of a primarch

[Tyrannicide]

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and perspectives. 

 

I enjoyed Betrayer a lot. Khârn is probably my favorite character out of the Heresy to date. 

[Veteran Sergeant]

I'm sorry for saying close minded. I understand your stance yet I feel that as you said with them being cartoonish isn't it good to see how they got to that place in the 40k universe.

 

To see what the nails in a wider context do and the ascension of a primarch

Nah. I was much happier with them being minions. Everything that ever gets put into print in this silly license becomes canon. Writing in more stuff that doesn't make any sense isn't helping, lol. I like the World Eaters. Before I decided buying a pile of Forgeworld models was a huge waste of money, I wanted to make World Eaters just because it would be a riot to model them up. But I'd never try to write a story about them. Seems like a project that is destined to fail. 

 

A bunch of characters hardwired with brain altering mechanics that make them insane and irrational pretty much all the time? That's not exactly character building material. Nobody tries to write a book from the perspective of an Ork. Well, at least a serious book. The World Eaters are the Orks of Space Marines. Better off if they just sit in the background and do what it is they do without the reader having to think too much about it.