Book 2: Massacre - any more info?

[Emperor's Furor]

Well he's a good all rounder, good melee, good ranged, good "morale" abilities, but for the most part they are useless if you're facing fearless units, which apparently the entirety of the Salamanders are, buffs his Night Lords a bit, a lot of 6s in his stat line.

[One-eye]

I saw the Primarch rules posted, but since there'd been such a wealth of very specific rules posted here in a short amount of time, I thought it'd be hypocrite to post them here so close to that.

Not calling you a hypocrite, One-eye, please don't take it that way. It was all about timing.

No problem, Greyall, a small artwork of the Phoenix Knights in 4' x 3' and everything will be forgotten

The fact is that people having only a few time to look for infos (like I am) always appreciate places where it is gathered. But you're right on the timing.

edit : spelling

[Balthamal]

I like how they've gone with Curze. Packs plenty of punch, adds some buffing to his Legion along with debuffs to the opposition. Above all though I'd say he's true to how he's portrayed in the books so that gets an almighty thumbs up from me

[Russ Brother 92]

I'm now imagining running Curze and Terror squads against an IG infantry army haha "flee my pretties, flee"

[Sevatar]

Given that Vulkan is much better than Ferrus, I am correct in thinking he is substantially cheaper? Also, was that 4 Attacks on their profiles?

Thanks.

 

I'm really interested to see how the Iron Hands change, if they did at all.

[Emperor's Furor]

Vulkan is cheaper than Ferrus, he's cheaper than Curze to but Lorgar is substantially cheaper than them all.

[Ordo Machinum]

I'm now imagining running Curze and Terror squads against an IG infantry army haha "flee my pretties, flee"

Like this...

...without the dinosaur and halfling...

[Russ Brother 92]

Nah WITH the dinosaur and halfling :p Curze was in fact primogenitor of they who shall not be named :p

 

Why is Vulkan better than AND cheaper than Ferrus or Curze?!?

[Sevatar]

Vulkan is cheaper than Ferrus, he's cheaper than Curze to but Lorgar is substantially cheaper than them all.

Seriously? I am an Iron Hands fan so I'm supposed I'm biased...but, really?

 

Vulkan is more resilient, has an awesome weapon and a disgusting hammer. Ferrus seems to (imo) provide a weaker overall benefit unless you take a mechanised heavy armour list. Also, his hammer is worse by a long shot, his armour is worse and finally, Ferrus may not even use his hammer in the campaign for a bit. And he's more expensive, apparently.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

?

[Greyall]

You're missing the fact that life likes to rain all over the Iron Hands' gears. And rust them.

 

=)

[Emperor's Furor]

I dunno why, the difference is that minor though, compared to Lorgar where there's like a 100 point difference.

[Russ Brother 92]

I can understand Lorgar or Alpharius/Omegon being the cheap end for a primarch, but really? Having what they've evidently made as the hardest primarch (short of Horus post-daemon and the Big E) cheaper than Curze or Ferrus yet far harder to kill AND better in combat (never mind the special rules he brings to the table or his S10 AP2 Hammer-of-Doom)... Doesn't make sense to me, even worse that it's from FW who HAD been doing superbly :/

 

I've no doubt it's been asked already but how does Ferrus stack up in game-terms against Fulgrim?

[Telhdrat]

To be honest I feel Ferrus Manus gives slightly better army wide benefits than Vulkan, especially so if you take medium or heavy armour in your army. His backpack also gives him a nice variety of weapons to shoot with, nuncio vox, and also an extra Servo Arm attack.

 

Not saying the points don't feel a bit odd, but I think the two are quite equal in all other aspects except durability. Though FW seem to generally put quite a high price on being able to repair vehicles.

[Emperor's Furor]

I agree with Telhdrat, overall Ferrus provides a lot better army wide buffs and a number of options in regards to shooting.

[TheForgottenAngel]

Well an Iron Hands any should have a combined and feel. With the nuncio vox and the vast array of weapons he can shoot with I see him as a very strong support primarch. Having artillery back him up with make him much deadly than he looks (thanks to the nuncio vox). Sure Vulcan is a CC beast but he is very short ranged. Primarchs are just one facet of the battlefield. Ferrus is a combat multiplier. Once you see him as such you'll fall in love with what he does.

[Emperor's Furor]

Btw Firedrakes with their special stormshields - 2 wounds each, 2+ save, 3+ invulnerable, stick them with the special HQ dreadnought and they have a 6+ feel no pain to!

[Kol Saresk]

I think the Night lords' biggest strength against the Salamanders will be that they can outmaneuver and outnumber them. Stay far enough away, shoot them diwn, and then close in with as many AP3/AP2 weapons as you can get and make sure you can grab that +1Wound on your way in.

 

And when you're attacking Vulkan, don't.

[Emperor's Furor]

Yeah currently my 1k point army that I'm going to start a escalation campaign is going to have the salamander hq dreadnought, two units of ten marines, and a storm shielded up firedrake squad.

[Telhdrat]

Yeah that would probably be the way to go for Night Lords. Of course, there's no reason a Salamander player couldn't also field a mobile army, even if they are a bit slower than everyone else.

 

As for Fulgrim vs Ferrus Manus, my math says it's very close, with a slight advantage to Ferrus because of the Servo Arm. And that is further boosted by the concussive rule of his hammer, yet still very close. If the weapons were swapped around like during their duel (ok, it's the Laer Blade instead of Fireblade, but still) Fulgrim should win.

 

But damn it takes ages for the duel to be finished. I rolled the dice once and it took twelve rounds before Ferrus killed Fulgrim.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah that would probably be the way to go for Night Lords. Of course, there's no reason a Salamander player couldn't also field a mobile army, even if they are a bit slower than everyone else.

Although with an army like the Night Lords and possibly some of the more mobile-naturally-inclined Legions, this might work out better for them as they can isolate specific units, tear them apart, turn around and catch the reinforcements.

[Russ Brother 92]

I must admit the durability side of Ferrus does stand out, he's no Vulkan but he's also no Lorgar haha :) you guys have convinced me that FW haven't screwed up - although I WILL be getting 10 Firedrakes plus Vulkan as a set piece :)

 

I thought the Nostraman Chainglaves are AP3? Stock up on those, outflank, outmanouver and pick off the weaker parts - by the time Vulkan and his buddies reach you you'll outnumber them so badly it won't matter :)

[Kol Saresk]

They are. But I imagine Firedrakes will be a common theme in Salamander armies. AP3 is useless, although the +1S will come in handy from my knowledge of the rules. But in the case of Vulkan, you just want to keep maneuvering so there is a Sallie between you and him at distance and the only way you want to close is if you know you can kill him fast or hope and pray that when your opponent puts the minis together, he can't get a clear shot off with that 3" S8 AP3 Strikedown tablet. Although Curze has Murderous Strike doesn't he?

[Emperor's Furor]

I get the feeling most Salamander armies will be stuck close together and move across the field like a turtle, plus firedrakes can score to, if you don't deal with them they would be immovable on a capture point unless they roll poorly.

[Russ Brother 92]

so we roll a Typhon or a few Lascannon/Plasma Cannon heavy weapons squads - or back your regular troops up with two 10 man Melta or Plasma support squads, sure they have invul saves - but a 3+ is easier to fail than a 2+ and if you've got 10 or more, someone will die :)

[Emperor's Furor]

Salamanders are resistant to plasma, volkite, melta and flamer weapons. In some shape or form, book is downstairs so can't check atm, they also got two wounds. Also my firedrakes will be accompanied by the unstoppable dreadnought which gives them a feel no pain save to.