[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[helterskelter]

Sergeant can take chainglaive, the rest have the axes.

To justify my position: first the melta, less risk, gets results. Sure it can be mathhammered out, however with very few lists and from other games I've observed ceramite is barely a thing due to everyone thinking no one is taking melta because they think everyone is taking ceramite. Even then, strength 8 and ap1, better chance to pen, best chance to generate an explodes result, if you ended up somehow using it for overwatch can save your butt from rampaging dreadnaught.

As for glaives and axes, i think like a nightlord, I sure as hell am not going to beat other legions elite units in combat, so what I'm going to do with it is take apart scoring units, take apart power armoured targets, axes ensure this, how much FNP do we actually see? Who do you see maxing out apoths/primus medicae? Apart from world eaters and their suped up psychos that deserve nothing more than the angry end of the guns, it doesn't appear all that often so axes will do what I want them to do. And glaives are fun. And can rend, and can kill more faster than axe toting. And because tfm against most hits on 3 wounds on 2.

ChainFists appear in my maxed out squads because they'll be a bigger target and need to deal with more

[Terminus]

Two S7 shots will do better against the vast majority of transports than the melta.  If we're talking Land Raiders, they will have Ceramite.  The stuff that doesn't take ceramite doesn't really need the extra D6 to be penetrated either.

 

 All Sgts should have AP2 unless you have no other options. Regarding apothecaries, they are a lot more prevalent now, and Night Lords have innumerable better options to deal with basic infantry than throwing terminators at them.  I don't understand the thinking here, honestly. Even just giving the to-hit bonus, Talent for Murder lets standard NL choices match other Legions elites, but instead you go "nah, I'm not even going to bother, I'm going to focus on doing something a whole bunch of other things can do better instead".

Edited September 19, 2016 by Slipstreams

[helterskelter]

Well you're gonna have to call me Mr. Ridiculous.

My opinion is no less valid than your's because I play toy soldiers differently to you, so feel free to insult me further

[Terminus]

 You can play how you want, but acknowledging that one particular set of equipment is more advantageous and another more a drawback does not suddenly make you a bad person. 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Slipstreams

[helterskelter]

? I was justifying my position on my preference because you "strongly disagreed" with my advice, so all I did was give my reasoning.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Terminus]

In the final analysis, a chainglave is indeed a ridiculous choice for a character who will wade into challenges.  Rending is not reliable enough with only two attacks.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Slips]

+++ We're all adults here so I think that we can all agree that calling people names, whether intentional or otherwise, isn't what we're here for. +++

 

So let's move on and keep talking Night Lords.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Lord Asvaldir]

Has anyone tried using Kheron Ophion? I'm thinking about running a terror assault list with him, he seems like a solid choice for an infantry heavy terror assaut list. He does however need an infantry unit that isn't a terror squad as an escort, so I have him in a dreadclaw with a squad of weapon master veterans. 

[Terminus]

I like Ophion more than Sevatar, for what it's worth.  Both will die to a single power fist, but at least Kheron has a 3++ and can count on that AP2 axe to kill whichever Sgt is daring to challenge him.  Stubborn within 12" and forcing the game to continue, if you're losing, is not the greatest warlord trait but better than Sevatar's.

 

Both have the same issue of being close combat warlords who can't join a Terror squad in a pod, get a bike or jump pack to accompany bikers or assault marines, and can't teleport alongside Terminators, which essentially obligates you to bring an apothecary and veteran squad just for them, which while not a bad investment, can be difficult after buying 3 terror squads.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I certainly agree with you on the second issue, essentially being forced to bring an extra power armor unit can be a hassle in terror assault where you're already forced to bring three. It's not that veterans are bad, it's just often I'd rather take terminators or bikers in a terror assault list. 

 

For power fists, I mean pretty much any character except a salamanders preator and sigismund is going to die to a power fist, at least Ophion has a better invul save to increase his chances of survival. 

[Terminus]

My honest opinion on Terror Assault HQs is that the Delegatus is the best option. He's cheap, which offsets a bit the 1000 points you have to dump into troops, and can take either terminator armor (which unlocks WS5 terminator command squads), or hop on a bike. Sevatar or Ophion would be good for Pride, I just wish one of them had a jump pack.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Delegatus has been what I've been running ever since the delegatus came out, completely with you on all those points. I've pretty much always run him with a chainfist and terminator armor so he can deep strike in with a command squad or just some normal terminators. I just figured it was time to change things up and try Ophion. 

[LtDan]

I'm just about to build all my nightlords and I'm going to be running a pretor in terminator armour with a paragon blade. Need the ap2 at int. Feed up of the blood angel pretor with that bl£%dy blade of perdition killing everything lol.

I'm starting to play alot of ZM. Does nightfighting still work the same?

[lanceqi]

I feel you Lt Dan. Actually I'm building my 1k ZM night lord forces too. Instead of TA I'm using a delegatus and run zone mortalis assault force. The reason I choose ZMAF over TA is that I think the compulsory troop limitation overwrites and three terror squads plus your warlord will leave you very limit options to deal with the enemy walkers.(most of them are contemptor-cortus in my area)

As for the night fighting special rule IMHO it will work the same.

Here is my ZM list just for your reference. Any C&C are welcome!

HQ

Delegatus with cataphractii TA

combi-melta, power axe 107

 

Troop

Breacher Squad

meltagun*2 and nuncio vox 255

 

Elite

Terminator Squad with cataphractii TA

combi-plasma*5

chainfist and assault grenade launcher 230

 

Terror Squad (10 men strong)

volkite charger*10

sergeant with chainglaive and melta bomb 265

 

Dreadnought

graviton gun

multi-melta 140

A total of 997pts

[LtDan]

Thanks for that. Terror assault is one extra terror squad btw not three. As ZM you only need one troop choice. So only need two. We are playing at 1300pts starting(.was 1250 but friend needed the extra 50 points to fit something in)

 

Terror assault.

 

Pretor. Paragon blade, digital lasers

 

8 man cataphatti squad. Plasma blaster, 5 combi plasma, 2 twin lightning claws, 2 fist, 2 axe , 2 chainfist.

 

2 10 man terror squads. Volkite, one flamer, srg with aa and power fist.

 

Contemptor with claws and grav.

 

Thats pretty bang on 1300.

 

Terror squads infiltrate or outflank and the terms teleport in with the pretor.

 

All the lists my guys have are generally tacs/vets/terms/contemptors.

[lanceqi]

Owwwwww damn I totally misunderstood this rule. Then I think running TA is pretty AWSOME in ZM games: just remember what happened when Blood Angel search squad encountered Talos in a dark and cramped space hulk XD.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Just don't remember what happened to the Night Lords when they ambushed Ultras in Pharos with 3 times their numbers. I hate that book

[lanceqi]

Just don't remember what happened to the Night Lords when they ambushed Ultras in Pharos with 3 times their numbers. I hate that book

Personally I don't think Krukesh is a suitable commanding officer... Sev made a huge mistake introducing him instead of Malcharion into Kyroptera.

Just don't remember what happened to the Night Lords when they ambushed Ultras in Pharos with 3 times their numbers. I hate that book

Personally I don't think Krukesh is a suitable commanding officer... Sev made a huge mistake introducing him instead of Malcharion into Kyroptera.

[SkimaskMohawk]

So anyone think of using a praevian at all? I've been looking at one with vorax and there's some synergy there. TfM makes them usually hit on 3s and wound on 2s, combine that with the cortex designator proc for preferred enemy and you can really mulch a unit. Even shooting they can put out a good amount of shots if you give them both upgrades, with the proc they do ~12 wounds a volley with the rotors (with three) which can whittle down termies and dudes.

 

They do have some weaknesses; low armour makes them easy to shoot off the tanbe and they're not exactly fast since the praevian cancels out their fleet. That being said, the praevian can also tank weight of fire shooting to some extent.

 

Once they get into assault though? I don't see very many units lasting against them. At first I was leaning towards a Terror Assault list since they get the initiative boost at night; with a good scout they can get into position for a Turn 2 charge which could be good but takes a lot of set up. Then I looked at the rules for krak grenades and realized that as long as you get the praevian in base to base with a dude whos using a Krak then you can just allocate them all to him and nullify all the attacks since he's not a Monstrous Creature. ofc this will only work once or so, but it alleviates their weak armour in combat. Thoughts? 

[helterskelter]

I tried to make it work once before, because I think the vorax are fluffy as hell for night Lords. I'm not sure whether or not they're allowed the poison rounds for their rotor cannon because that would justify the foot slogging required a bit. However they're expensive and slow because of the praevian and they're not meant to be a gun platform with their armaments.

I personally wouldn't if you were playing tournament or leagues, they won't hurt once in a while for fun games to see how they pan out. And they're really nice models if you can get them to stick together.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea they can take the poison rounds, frag grenades and +1 BS -1 cover

[helterskelter]

I a going to have to reinvest. Make sure you've got a decent weapon on the praevian to capitalise on the shooting bonus.

Might work with Sevatars warlord trait?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea was thinking of Sevetar and a volkite charger on the praevian for multiple shots and the ability to charge after. Might go with a combi-melta in the future though.

 

Also helps for me at least that my group plays with charging off of walk on reserves or outflank, 5th ed style

[helterskelter]

Yea was thinking of Sevetar and a volkite charger on the praevian for multiple shots and the ability to charge after. Might go with a combi-melta in the future though.

 

Also helps for me at least that my group plays with charging off of walk on reserves or outflank, 5th ed style

Technically you can have a pair of lightning claws and a volkite charger. Just saying :p

But as your group plays like that then you really won't have much grief, just be mindful of cost vs amount of models that aren't hugely survivable

[Galron]

So we know Terror Assault is the superior unique RoW, especially if bringing the Night Haunter. But what about the Horror Cult, what does it really bring to the table aside from 90 Night raptors vs the 45 normal available? Terror trophies are so so in a normal mixed meta. Bringing raptors opens up seeker slots if you go that way, I would rather have vets though. Assault claws are cool and we have more heavy slots open with it but It just seems like such a negligible RoW compared to Terror Assault. Am I missing something about it?

 

I guess it makes for a quick conversion army between 40k Raptor cults but that's about the only real benefit I see.