Codex: Adepta Sororitas is out!

[the jeske]

Carried by OP Crudd rules , not sisters. 6 minimax alone peril my screamer star to death in 1 turn. they will just run 4-6 razobacks for grounding tests and ground fateweaver and do the same to him and then no re-rolls on table or grimore . At the same time runing 3 cheap as solo exos on a landing pad to counter all those armies av13+builds and dominions with their ignore cover melta guns to destroy serpents and tau suits and fire warriors. Clearly a flavor of the month army and considering the cost of a full metal army , it is just as pay to win as FW stuff. GW should have made SoB FW , so people could veto playing against them in tournaments.

[PureFodder]

Carried by OP Crudd rules , not sisters. 6 minimax alone peril my screamer star to death in 1 turn. they will just run 4-6 razobacks for grounding tests and ground fateweaver and do the same to him and then no re-rolls on table or grimore . At the same time runing 3 cheap as solo exos on a landing pad to counter all those armies av13+builds and dominions with their ignore cover melta guns to destroy serpents and tau suits and fire warriors. Clearly a flavor of the month army and considering the cost of a full metal army , it is just as pay to win as FW stuff. GW should have made SoB FW , so people could veto playing against them in tournaments.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

[*Furyou Miko]

It's Jeske, so probably not. Jeske never jokes about competitive gaming.

 

Of course, he also talks about tournament god-builds that I never see, so...

[PureFodder]

In that case I should point out that the Adeptas really aren't going to be any good in tournaments. The codex is effectively the same as before with some tweaks, most of which are for the worse (Celestine, AoF, DCA, retributors, Jacobus just to name a few) and people weren't winning tournaments with them before. 

 

Now they have been granted a new weapon that great against a really narrow range of armies, ones that rely on deathstar units full of psykers to do broken things. It means that there's now a hard counter to these lists which have been making tournaments boring and frustrating for everyone else. Surely that's a good thing?

 

Also, thanks Furyou for picking up on the fact that Jacobus can't actually take any additional wargear options!

[Hanska]

Dude what?!

I've been out of the 40k scene since early august due to real life issues and now that I'm slowly starting to tip my toes back in the water we have a new dex?

I'll have to get the codex as soon as possible but what I read in this topic it sounds pretty good. I mean sure something got worse but I'm optimistic I can build a fluffy cool force that will do ok on the field.

 

EDIT: Can someone suggest a good free eReader for android? I hae a samsung note 10.1 and I only need a reader for these digi codexes.

[AdmLancel]

Carried by OP Crudd rules , not sisters. 6 minimax alone peril my screamer star to death in 1 turn. they will just run 4-6 razobacks for grounding tests and ground fateweaver and do the same to him and then no re-rolls on table or grimore . At the same time runing 3 cheap as solo exos on a landing pad to counter all those armies av13+builds and dominions with their ignore cover melta guns to destroy serpents and tau suits and fire warriors. Clearly a flavor of the month army and considering the cost of a full metal army , it is just as pay to win as FW stuff. GW should have made SoB FW , so people could veto playing against them in tournaments.

 

This is actually pretty close to what I had envisioned myself, just MSU in Immolators with mostly Multi-Meltas, with plenty of Melta-minions and Exorcist spam, and the regular Battle Sisters with Flamers and Heavy Flamers for infantry clearing.  Hadn't put much thought into the crossbows though, but I may just grab a set.

[Hymirl]

On the upside it sounds less boring, which is my main criticism with the current codex. I'm not convinced that they will turn into a top tier army thanks to an OP crossbow. Although its quite amusing to be able to gimp the latest deathstar de jour.

 

I just have to work out how to get a copy on a piece of paper, pain in the arse method of rules delivery.... If anyone wants to post a photocopy? (Joke - I case the mods come by!) :P

[We are Legion]

Dude what?!

I've been out of the 40k scene since early august due to real life issues and now that I'm slowly starting to tip my toes back in the water we have a new dex?

I'll have to get the codex as soon as possible but what I read in this topic it sounds pretty good. I mean sure something got worse but I'm optimistic I can build a fluffy cool force that will do ok on the field.

 

EDIT: Can someone suggest a good free eReader for android? I hae a samsung note 10.1 and I only need a reader for these digi codexes.

 

Is there a kindle app for android? I THINK it reads PDF's, and as long as you have an Amazon account you should be able to get into it.

[Notorious Preacher]

Carried by OP Crudd rules , not sisters. 6 minimax alone peril my screamer star to death in 1 turn. they will just run 4-6 razobacks for grounding tests and ground fateweaver and do the same to him and then no re-rolls on table or grimore . At the same time runing 3 cheap as solo exos on a landing pad to counter all those armies av13+builds and dominions with their ignore cover melta guns to destroy serpents and tau suits and fire warriors. Clearly a flavor of the month army and considering the cost of a full metal army , it is just as pay to win as FW stuff. GW should have made SoB FW , so people could veto playing against them in tournaments.

"Nasty Sisters busted my RoflpwnDeathstar "

I don't know why I don't feel sorry. Maybe because someone ignores the still significant weaknesses of the new codex...

Poor Anti Air capability, fragile walkers, ridicolous variability just to name a few. Or maybe just because Sororitas have no mercy for trolls at all...

[SinnerBeta]

Overall I'm trying to stay positive about even the nerfs (an excuse to try different lists and change the metagame) but almost all of the new AoFs REALLY piss me off. I could and describe them case-by-case but I already know I would end up ranting and swearing and probably arguing rather strongly with the people that like them. 

[graysparrow]

I don't understand why they didn't add in some new units while they were at it.  The 'no new models' excuse doesn't hold up when you consider that a vindicator is a vindicator no matter what army it's in.  There are plenty of things that could have been added to the sisters list using already existing models from the space marine range that would require zero extra work or cost to manufacture. 

 

Before anyone says that a vindicator doesn't fit the sisters fluff, it doesn't fit the space marine 'scalpel compared to the imperial guard hammer' fluff either.  Even so, there are plenty of other rhino chassis vehicles that already exist that GW could have made money selling by throwing a few more options into the new 'dex.  For all the price gouging that they do with the existing sisters models, you'd think they would be greedy enough to want even more profit.

[the jeske]

 

I don't know why I don't feel sorry. Maybe because someone ignores the still significant weaknesses of the new codex...

Poor Anti Air capability, fragile walkers, ridicolous variability

just to name a few. Or maybe just because Sororitas have no mercy for

trolls at all...

 

I guess people don't know what solo is .

 

 

But that aside I don't think that flyers are much of a problem for sob armies. minimax means a lot of the dmg is limited , the fact that they can spam cheap razoback[say no to rhinos] only helps with that. In fact drop and pop builds , are also less effective against sisters . There is almost no hard targets[exos , but those will sit in a cosy +4inv] and it kind of a sucks to trade 200+pts of sternguard for a 150pts of sob [and that is when nothing odd happens and they suddenly pass their +6inv].

But if someone realy does need anti AA , then there is ton of good stuff. cheap biker libby, 5 scouts [cloaks+snipers] and a hunter or some IG and saber weapon platforms , if FW is ok in your area.

 

For all those who want to learn how to play the new sob builds or who want to get an idea how they will play read Morticons old raptors about his BAs vs GK builds [specialy the paladin ones] . Sisters will play against everyone like that. Lots of shoting , fast paced army and if you have to melee something you have to sandwitch [<=see what I did here] with your whole army .

 

1750 will be the most prefared points value for sisters army .

 

 

 

 

It's Jeske, so probably not. Jeske never jokes about competitive gaming.

But miko-chan you know am a power gamer , if they were so good I wouldn't say they are too OP , I would be doing a counts as chaos sm army using SoB rules right now.

[*Furyou Miko]

In that case I should point out that the Adeptas really aren't going to be any good in tournaments. The codex is effectively the same as before with some tweaks, most of which are for the worse (Celestine, AoF, DCA, retributors, Jacobus just to name a few) and people weren't winning tournaments with them before.

Really? They were doing OK in the tournament listings I've seen recently.

 

Lets face it: The Jacobus Bomb was nerfed, and now people are being forced to reconsider their tactics and it looks like the army is ruined. But it's not.

 

I am glad I never glued the arms onto my DCAs though, now I can repurpose them as Command Celestians and Priests.

But miko-chan you know am a power gamer , if they were so good I wouldn't say they are too OP , I would be doing a counts as chaos sm army using SoB rules right now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoSmug_zps4b0b1a74.png

[Fibonacci]

In all honesty, the Jacobus bomb has not been the same since the release of 6th.

 

 

also ....

would it be in poor taste to say I came in second in the last tournament I played?  To be fair, I did not face either of the Tau players and we had no Eldar players that weekend. 

[ValourousHeart]

So if I am reading this right...

 

1. Sister's Condemnor Boltguns went back to the original wording to cause POTW on hit... but the GK version is still FAQd to be on an unsaved wound.

2. Celestine's I'm not dead yet rule was changed to be once per game... but GK Justicar Thawn still gets to do it every round.

[Aeropig]

So if I am reading this right...

 

1. Sister's Condemnor Boltguns went back to the original wording to cause POTW on hit... but the GK version is still FAQd to be on an unsaved wound.

2. Celestine's I'm not dead yet rule was changed to be once per game... but GK Justicar Thawn still gets to do it every round.

Well that should give some idea of a few changes to the GK codex when it gets its 6th edition update. Its still a 5thvedition codex remember.

[the jeske]

thawn is a squad leader . can't leave his units and it slower , he will stay the way he is , just like eternaly standing up Yarikk.

 

Example testing list

 

3x5 sob .death to psykers bolt gun 2 meltas each . Immolators 1 hvy flamer , 2 MM .

1x10 bubble wrap squad . MM+flamer death to psykers bolt gun.

2x5 dominions . 4 melta  , Immolators 2 hvy bolter

3 exorcists

landing pad

1x5 serafins 2xhand flamers

1xBig sister with BB , cloak/mantle [the EW one], rosary .

[Tamwulf]

After wiping my iPad and reinstalling everything, I can now see/use this Codex. Funny how Apple has always billed itself as being different from PC/Windows, and yet the same solution works for both.

[We are Legion]

After wiping my iPad and reinstalling everything, I can now see/use this Codex. Funny how Apple has always billed itself as being different from PC/Windows, and yet the same solution works for both.

Roy: Have you tried turning it off an on again? -IT Crowd

By the way, BoLS has a review up of the codex--pretty spot on in my opinion (not linking because I'm not sure about the forum's rules on linking to other sites).

I'm glad I have Repentia, but I can't say they're gonna get much use this edition.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

 

In that case I should point out that the Adeptas really aren't going to be any good in tournaments. The codex is effectively the same as before with some tweaks, most of which are for the worse (Celestine, AoF, DCA, retributors, Jacobus just to name a few) and people weren't winning tournaments with them before.

Really? They were doing OK in the tournament listings I've seen recently.

 

Lets face it: The Jacobus Bomb was nerfed, and now people are being forced to reconsider their tactics and it looks like the army is ruined. But it's not.

 

I think people not winning tournaments with Sisters is more a function of few people using them, and the best power gamers preferring the "win-button" armies versus one that requires finesse. That said, I've heard of WD Sisters doing alright. I don't think that this new codex is worse and may well prove to be better.

 

As someone who never played the WD codex because he missed-out on the WD in question before they sold-out never to be seen again, perhaps I have a different perspective. I admit that mine is more academic, but it may be more objective, too. I really like what I see with this digital codex compared to the WD one (from what I remember of it, looking at other peoples' copies). I'm someone who's renowned for his terrible dice, so to me, anything that has a higher % of success is preferable in my books, so I will take the new more reliable acts of faith. I look at it from a "better to have one bird in hand than two in the bush" perspective. Especially with Celestine -- I will take an 80%+ single chance to get back up with full wounds, versus a 50-50 chance to get up every turn any day. I also don't see how going from wounds everything on 4+ to Str 5 is a "nerf". The only thing that change is worse against is monstrous creatures. Against everything else she's better, since she's now wounding MEQ on 3+ and IG, Tau, Eldar on 2+. Just changes what her focus should be, but seems to me she'd be an absolute blender versus MEQ.

 

But seems to me the Acts for the other Sisters are fine. Simulacrum Imperialis is quite cost-efficient and lets you use the Act twice. That's two acts per unit, that are more reliably triggered. I'm not sure that you'd be able to (successfully) get much more than that off under the old rules (in my book a failed attempt might as well have not been an attempt).

 

I am loving the new priests. That seems like a real boost, to me. I can't remember what Rependia had before, but 3+ FNP seems pretty good for keeping them alive long enough to use their eviscerators, especially since in 6th you can take FNP saves against more than you could in 5th. As others have pointed out, the Jacobus bomb hasn't been the same since the advent of 6th in any event, and I think that Jacobus plus Repentia could be a nice combo.

 

Some things we were hoping would be improved weren't, but I can't say I really expected them to be. Lots of people hate on the Penitent Engines, but those who actually use them seem to do alright with them. There are always units in a codex people hate. I've made a career of using units from Codex: Imperial Guard that "everyone" says are "garbage" (rough riders, storm troopers, sentinels) yet have had great success personally. We can't expect perfection. I think this codex allows to make some flavourful lists. Best of all, it allows people like me to make SoB lists, period, whereas I couldn't before (certainly not for tournament play).

 

Now my only problem is that since GW has been so long in releasing this, I never bought and SoB models since I wanted to wait and see what they did with them. So I'm going to start with the ally route.

[greggles]

I've made a career of using units from Codex: Imperial Guard that "everyone" says are "garbage" (rough riders, storm troopers, sentinels) yet have had great success personally.

 

I think with the internet, people make up in their minds that "certain units suck."  They then stop using those units, and start cookie cutter copying "the win lists" which a majority agrees is the best use of a particular armies talents.

 

What then tends to happen, is everyone ends up playing variants of that same list over and over again, so they create counters to it, and know how it all works.

 

When you show up with a "broken" list (according to the internet), it completely throttles most opponents, cause they have NO IDEA what your list does or can do...just that it's "stupid, and you should have taken X instead".

 

I've had this happen with orks before.  I like to make ork lists using the most random of ork items...like the shokk gun, the weird boy, the looted wagon, stormboyz, flash gitz, loota's, trukks...if it requires a dice roll somewhere in the rule, I use it.  It has utterly tabled opponents before.   The forums will tell you it can't possibly work, because it's not battlewagon spam.

 

When it comes down to it, it's a game of dice, and the unexpected is always an asset over the expected.

[AdmLancel]

Sub-optimal units can still perform, no doubt, it is rare that a unit is well and truly useless, I mean there is always a chance the dice gods will favor you, but sometimes it is that a unit can seem a lot more work and risk for the same amount of damage, or slightly more.  I just don't know about Celestians though.  Many of those units, like Stormtroopers, still offer something unique and it's more just a disagreement on the price of the unit.  Celestians, on the other hand, offer nothing but a couple of melee stats without real melee weapons to go with them and sacrifice much to get them, such as being more expensive and not being a scoring unit, and the nerfs to Act of Faith with regards to them (no longer Fearless, no longer spammable in any sense, only useful if the Celestians charge, Canoness cannot stack Acts and hers was nerfed also) make them a little more questionable, although cheaper than they used to be.  I am unsure now as to how to make use of them.  Since they are no better (arguably worse) at shooting than rank scoring Battle Sisters, it suggests you had better be making use of those melee stats somehow, but it seems the melee stats are only enough to potentially go even points wise.  Perhaps they could tar pit.  I have considered one thing with Repentia, which I shall go into now...

 

Repentia are still Repentia and can now take a transport finally, but they lost FNP except for one single assault phase, and without an assault transport that leaves them exposed for a turn, in which they could be very easily cut down.  I am not quite sure how to deal with that properly, but a theory I had was the use of Celestians and Seraphim to tie up everything in melee during that turn, such that very little, if anything, would be able to target the Repentia when they step out.  The trouble is Celestians and Repentia are both Elites.

 

In other areas the Retributors got a little toned down, sure, but this leads to the second area where I am truly baffled.  The first was that Celestians actually seem a bit worse than they were despite already being considered weak by most players.  The second is that Exorcists got made 10 points cheaper despite already being considered one of the best units in our army.  It feels like now every competitive list of Sisters will include three Exorcists, or at least two if someone felt they needed one Retributor.

[Fibonacci]

The more I look at all the minor shifts and changes the more it looks like a major shift.  All the little changes were minor boosts in close combat which all combined added a lot of funcionality in that regard.  Repentia need to be screened on their way in but we now have more than a few units we can do that with.  Add a priest to just about anything to make it a tarpit or go ahead an unlock 5 battle coclaves. Banners (including Jacobus' banner) all give 12" bubbles of CC boosts.  Heavy flamers are cheaper and effective which means most units will be in template range when they can.  The CC boosts will be very usful when theose up close units are assaulted.

 

Mobility and getting into assault range are still a draw back.  Rhinos mean standing around unable to attack while eatting opponent's fire for a turn -- just like everyone else does in this edition.  Somehow or another I need to merge cheap-ish bolters and power armor with zero shooting massed close combat attacks.  Exorcists X 3 is a given since they are still the only real long range shooting.

 

A part of me sees that we have had our 5th Edition codex reworked to excel in the 5th edition meta.   Rhino rush or MSU razorback spam worked well in 5th.  I'm not sure how I am going to fit this in with the new meta.  That will only come with more practice.  But I know I can make this work.

[Hanska]

Greggles has a good point. Brings to mind an example I read not long ago.

This guy who gives lectures about knife fighting in real life to people that learn these so called knife martials arts.

He has a demonstration he likes to give: He asks an experiensed "fighter" from the audience to join him and counter his attack. First he does a "proper" attack that the volunteer almost always blocks or dodges. Then he asks to try again. This time he makes a prison style rush, and "guts" every single volunteer.

The reason for this is that they have only practiced against "proper" techniques and have no idea how to react when someone does something "stupid".

Never underestimate an idiot with a pointy stick.

[greggles]

Something else to add.  A lot of things in 40k have an effect whether they are actually fully utilized or not.  Things that change the way your opponent deploys, or changes their target priority.   A unit does not have to destroy another unit outright to take it out of play.  

 

Those priests can turn simple battle sister squads into incredible tarpits.  They could easily hold up some units for an entire game.

 

outflanking MM immolators with dominions?  Your opponents deployment changes.

 

Opponent kills your canoness?  Suddenly an army wide waargh triggers.  Next time they will think twice about killing your canoness, giving you more flexibility in her use.

 

And the FIVE heavy flamer command squad? Oh man I am so looking forward to playing with that!  I can't wait till the raging hero mini's are out.  Gonna kitbash the heck out of them.  If GW won't give us some (even though there is already a plastic sister in the immolator kit kinda), I'll make my own!

 

http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad27/Raging-Heroes/TGG/IE-H-TR-tr-base_acc_zps96251cc7.jpg