BassWave Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Lerneans sound fine to me. They can sit on an objective and fire at long range. Stubborn means they aren't going anywhere, and ws 5 deters the enemy from charging that unit. Synergizes great to me. Also, there's no reason to be condescending. I just want to know what role the gorgons can play other than anti tank (I have plenty of that already), and tac squad baby sitters. ROBOcaster 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3948299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Lerneans sound fine to me. They can sit on an objective and fire at long range. Stubborn means they aren't going anywhere, and ws 5 deters the enemy from charging that unit. Synergizes great to me. Also, there's no reason to be condescending. I just want to know what role the gorgons can play other than anti tank (I have plenty of that already), and tac squad baby sitters. Terminators make for poor backline models in general. Their shooting ability is very neglectable in most cases. Gorgons are our front line melee deterrent. They are tough to shoot at and will provide screening for other units if need be, and will clean up any melee threats that survives our withering fire. Edited February 13, 2015 by Wolf_Pack Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3948810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerhammer Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Good morning, I am looking at making a small IHs force and was wondering if a Ten man Legion Tactical Support Squad armed with Rotor Cannons mounted in a Rhino is worth taking? I see everyone taking Volkite Chargers that or Gravitation Guns (w/ proper RoW) with a support squad, can Rotor Cannons be optimal? Also how effective is the Legion Whirlwind Scorpius? Edited February 21, 2015 by Beerhammer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3957895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Rotator Cannons are just too weak to be effective against anything... At all. They are pretty cool looking though! Volkites will do much more damage against any target at any level. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3957898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBOcaster Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Good morning, I am looking at making a small IHs force and was wondering if a Ten man Legion Tactical Support Squad armed with Rotor Cannons mounted in a Rhino is worth taking? I see everyone taking Volkite Chargers that or Gravitation Guns (w/ proper RoW) with a support squad, can Rotor Cannons be optimal? Also how effective is the Legion Whirlwind Scorpius? Rotocannons Look amazing and as such I purchased a whole squad before I actually had to books to read the weapon profile, my thinking was "well they look great so they must be" similar thinking ended me up with 20 Immortals I ended up running as Breachers. Volk in my experience has out performed more times than the RT could I do still use them however against Orks, Guard, and Tau. So they have their place its just not on the field when fighting traitors. also I think there was a post here where the community rated heavy support slots and the Legion Whirlwind Scorpius was one of the top picks next to a Sicarian, Dakka Predator squad, and Medusa squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3957933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 After trying to upgrade my list to 4,500 points for our campaign, anyone else feels like it's impossible to manage our heavy support slots? Inbetween fireraptors, spartans, sicarans preds or even devastators, I am hard pressed to get milage out of my slots. What works for you guys at high levels? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3975472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Umm, isn't anything past 3500 points just apocalypse? I didn't know you were still supposed to follow force org. Would be nice if FW introduced CADs for 30k, would help with slot problems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3977217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyDreadnought Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Funny thing is, my lists are generally very light on Heavy Support, beyond a trio of Land Raiders ( and this is at about 2000/2500 points ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3977246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I constantly run out of HS. And Elites. My life is horrible that way. Aveangelismortis 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3977550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyDreadnought Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I've reconsidered my currently played lists and going towards leveraging the Inviolate Armour Legion Rule as much as possible, so I'm likely going towards an infantry horde style list. Might remodel my Immortals into normal Breachers, as they keep getting skipped over in favour of other units. Also thinking Rapier platforms with various weapon loads. Thoughts on the Rapier Graviton Cannon? Brofist 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3977744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Ehhh. They slow down assault-y hordes, but that's about it. Not enough shots for haywire to be worth it, to weak an AP/weird rolls for it to bother Marines much... I'd just stick with the thudd gun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3977758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Graviton Rapiers have a niche as Raktra pointed out. They are great anti transport/horde options. Their purpose is to pin down units and delay their arrival in close combat, They are still better than Thudds against flareshield spartans. The major problems are cost and range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3977807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 IH legion strengths are hordes of infantry, rapiers, admech allies, and bikes. Not surprising that you're starting to take more of them :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3978012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyDreadnought Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 My general plan now is to limit my vehicles to Dreadnoughts and light support vehicles like the artillery squadron, Whirly Scorpy and Land Speeders. My local meta doesn't have a huge amount of Sicaran tanks, so my Speeders would be somewhat safer than in a Sicaran-heavy area. Going to toy around with some options I don't use very often, like Seekers and Destroyers. I'm sure I can find a place for those squads. Oh, and Volkites. Lots and lots of those. Very fun to use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3978119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) After trying to upgrade my list to 4,500 points for our campaign, anyone else feels like it's impossible to manage our heavy support slots? Inbetween fireraptors, spartans, sicarans preds or even devastators, I am hard pressed to get milage out of my slots. What works for you guys at high levels? BassWave had a bit of a point regarding game sizes. The HH books recommend the Age of Darkness Organisation Chart for games of 1750-3000pts. I'm all for using it at any size of game, but inevitably as you go higher you're going to run into challenges with unit variety. The biggest areas you can sink points into at these sized games are Troops, Elites & Lords of War. The Lords of War is entirely dependent on the one you choose of course, but at this sized game and up, you can at least have anything you want. Elites and Troops, especially when combined with the right Rite of War such as Head of the Gorgon or Pride of the Legion. You could mount most your Troops choices in Land Raiders. Whack units that can in Spartans. This means you won't need Heavy Support choices for anything but other tanks. Granted you'll only have 3 slots, but perhaps larger games are the place for squadrons of Predators rather than lone Sicarans? I wrote a hypothetical, if extreme, list using 1 Age of Darkness FoC, and it came to 10,000pts. I'm sure you can find room for 4,500 in there . Heavy Support Squads though I think, really lose out. I can't imagine any reason I'd include one in a giant army list at this scale. The lack of mobility and innate squishiness means they almost certainly will lose out to other choices. Predator squadrons and almost certainly an Artillery squadron would be high on my list. A 10-man Lascannon squad would be a great way to eat up some points though! Edited March 16, 2015 by Emperors Teeth Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3978126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 After trying to upgrade my list to 4,500 points for our campaign, anyone else feels like it's impossible to manage our heavy support slots? Inbetween fireraptors, spartans, sicarans preds or even devastators, I am hard pressed to get milage out of my slots. What works for you guys at high levels? BassWave had a bit of a point regarding game sizes. The HH books recommend the Age of Darkness Organisation Chart for games of 1750-3000pts. I'm all for using it at any size of game, but inevitably as you go higher you're going to run into challenges with unit variety. The biggest areas you can sink points into at these sized games are Troops, Elites & Lords of War. The Lords of War is entirely dependent on the one you choose of course, but at this sized game and up, you can at least have anything you want. Elites and Troops, especially when combined with the right Rite of War such as Head of the Gorgon or Pride of the Legion. You could mount most your Troops choices in Land Raiders. Whack units that can in Spartans. This means you won't need Heavy Support choices for anything but other tanks. Granted you'll only have 3 slots, but perhaps larger games are the place for squadrons of Predators rather than lone Sicarans? I wrote a hypothetical, if extreme, list using 1 Age of Darkness FoC, and it came to 10,000pts. I'm sure you can find room for 4,500 in there . In an all comers or even fluffy list, I agree it can be easy to run wild with it. however, I am playing in an escalation campaign and have to deal with some very specific problems that require me to stress my heavy supports to the limit ;) Once you start list building beyond 4,000, you really start to feel that those non-squadron sicarans start to up your long term development. I might have to bring preds to add more fire power for my slot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3978138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I hadn't thought about it from an Escalation League point of view, sorry. That is going to get you in a pickle quickly, if you're forced to carry all your units over as you go up the scale. I am writing my list in an escalation style to keep new model requirements to a minimum (scarce painting time). Glancing at my 2k list I see I'd have much the same problem... 1 Sicaran and a Scorpius eating 2/3rds of the slots. I guess all you could do in this instance, is really take it into account from the beginning of the League, such as using a Predator which you could later increase to a squadron? Certainly you'd have to hold back on the fancy non-squadroned vehicles. Fast Attack has some good options with the large units of Land Speeders you could put together. Same goes for Jetbikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3978147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I hadn't thought about it from an Escalation League point of view, sorry. That is going to get you in a pickle quickly, if you're forced to carry all your units over as you go up the scale. I am writing my list in an escalation style to keep new model requirements to a minimum (scarce painting time). Glancing at my 2k list I see I'd have much the same problem... 1 Sicaran and a Scorpius eating 2/3rds of the slots. I guess all you could do in this instance, is really take it into account from the beginning of the League, such as using a Predator which you could later increase to a squadron? Certainly you'd have to hold back on the fancy non-squadroned vehicles. Fast Attack has some good options with the large units of Land Speeders you could put together. Same goes for Jetbikes. Yeah, we allow units to increase size, but not change or replace the units. I should have started with a predator on my roster for safety. Now I need anti air options and have a hard time squeezing in a fire raptor, and don't own a lightning yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3978437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 An Avenger with a pair of TL Missile Launchers and Tank Hunter Servitor can do pretty well, as it also have the AP3 heavy Bolter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3978666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Yeah, aesthetics are pretty important to me now that I have left the power gamer camp to join the grumpy old man camp, which is why I lament heavy support so much. Fire Raptors and both flavour of sicarans are close to my heart. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3980976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trydragon Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Been having the same issues, But it can be worked around for me I run Gorgons so my Spartan added as there Dedicated Transport, as i Run Head of the Gorgon I can Add in My LR as Dedicated Transports too, Issues I have is the Stuff i got to take in my heavy slot and a lot of it comes down to A. is it cool and B. is it fluffy in my case my Venator and Pred Squadans win out over the fire raptor every time, But that’s just me. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3981358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBOcaster Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Im the same way Trydragon, my LR and SA are dedicated transports and HS slots are always the same three 1 Venator, 2 Sicarians, but I may be swapping out 1 Sicarian for a Dakka pred squadron here soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3981382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I really wish breachers coukd take a spartan under head of the gorgon. This is my main in my campaign, mobility is direly important, I am facing off against nightlords flying circus and pods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3984067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trydragon Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Breachers cant but Imortals can take a Sparten, but thats is a pricey squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-3987304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Soooo.... Medusan Immortals in zone mortalis. Pretty good if you ask Slipstream. With Volkites they have brutal firepower in the close quarter confines of ZM maps, and 40 shots just melt any power armour models. Slips 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/12/#findComment-4001032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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