[HH1.0] Iron Hands Tactics

[Trydragon]

I use a Small 5 man unit with 4 Grav and a Auger Scanner in some of my lists when am expecting Drop Pods or outfalnkers but over all there a but lack luster Because of the Gravation guns being Heavy weapons and only 18' I rather run the Gravaton Cannons.

 

if you want too use them i sugest useing them on Gorgons as there relentless 10 in a sparten with 2 Grav guns and a couple of ChainFists can make anyone day bad.

[Raktra]

I like 'em. Deploy as in a rhino as far forward and to the centre, as possible, move up 6", disembark 6" into cover and boom. Middle of the table helps with the range and stationary issue, slays Spartans like no-one's business and can slow people down if nowt else.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I like 'em. Deploy as in a rhino as far forward and to the centre, as possible, move up 6", disembark 6" into cover and boom. Middle of the table helps with the range and stationary issue, slays Spartans like no-one's business and can slow people down if nowt else.

 

You mean, move 6 disembark 6 and then hope your opponent stays in range to fire next turn?

[Raktra]

Hey, if he doesn't you've made a nice bubble of nope for tanks.

[Toothbrush of Terra]

The nice thing about graviton guns is they don't necessarily have to fire to be useful, just their threat to vehicles is enough to create a dead zone around them. With 7th Edition, haywire is 100% the most effective and efficient way to deal with vehicles, and with that prowess comes a lot of respect.

 

One way I like to use them is in a Tactical Blob list. Tactical squads en masse (esp. Iron Hands Tacticals) tend to be pretty darn durable against shooting, so the best way to handle them is in melee. However, if you run them near a grav support squad, suddenly your opponent's options become more limited. Attack with a Contemptor? Haywire'll blow it up. Transport in a unit in a Spartan? Haywire + AT will blow it up, and then eat a short-range rapid fire/FotL on the unit inside.

 

They certainly aren't great without Relentless, but they're decent as an area denial weapon. 

[Theredknight]

Can't you pop 2 out of a rhino though?

[Raktra]

Not if you move. Two won't do too much anyway, spam them templates.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Raktra

[exsanguis]

Hey guys,

 

How does this sound as starting point for 1750 as potential Xth Legion convert?

New Roster (1750pts)

Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness)

• HQ
  • Spearhead-Centurion Castrmen Orth
• Troops
  • Legion Breacher Siege Squad

    14x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, 3x Melta gun

    • Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist

  • Legion Tactical Squad

    14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade

    • Legion Tactical Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon

• Elites
  • Apothecarion Detachment
    • Legion Apothecary

      Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

    • Legion Apothecary

      Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

  • Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought

    Blessed Autosimulacra, Havoc Launcher, Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons

  • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery
    • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

      Graviton Cannon

    • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

      Graviton Cannon

• Heavy Support
  • Legion Heavy Support Squad

    4x Legion Space Marines, Volkite Culverin

    • Legion Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

  • Legion Sicaran Battle Tank

    Armoured Ceramite, Blessed Autosimulacra, Lascannons

  • Legion Vindicator

    Armoured Ceramite, Blessed Autosimulacra, Laser Destroyer Array

• Legion
  • Legion Astartes

    X: Iron Hands

[Theredknight]

does anyone use a landraider heavy list?

With the row o believe you can take one as a dedicated transport per unit. Yay to scoring raiders. Plus how would orth perform in an Achilles alpha?

[Emperors Teeth]

does anyone use a landraider heavy list?

With the row o believe you can take one as a dedicated transport per unit. Yay to scoring raiders. Plus how would orth perform in an Achilles alpha?

 

Not particularly spectacularly, I'm afraid. Orth grants 2 key upgrades - BS5 & Tank Hunters. He doesn't work well with the main cannon and the Alpha can't upgrade it's Volkite Sponsons to Multi-melta's. The Quad gun's Shatter shells have 'Sunder' which allows you to re-roll Armour Penetration. This is exactly the same as Tank Hunters, so is redundant as you can't re-roll a re-roll.

 

So in conclusion, he only benefits your chances to hit and 2 of your 3 weapons and his Tank Hunters does basically nothing. On a regular Achilles at least he buffs the Multi-melta's. So he's still not bad, but doesn't provide as much of an upgrade as he does to say, a Sicaran or Venator.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Emperors Teeth

[Raktra]

Am I blind, or aside from the sponsons is there no real difference between the Achilles and the Alpha?

[Hesh Kadesh]

The Achilles-Alpha can take (well, comes naturally with) TL Volkite Culverin Sponsons; and prior to the Red Book, was the only access to Shatter Shells on the Quad Mortar (although that Changed in the Red Book), and the Alpha has Galvanic Traction Engines (essentially Dozer Blade without the ram bonus).

 

In return, the Achilles (Bravo?) has the option for a Pintle Heavy Weapon and if taken in 3's, then can become a Command Tank (actually, a pretty good option if you want, as you abuse the squadron rules to avoid the non-barrage rules for blast weapons; like Graviton, as it's otherwise an incredibly tough tank).

[Raktra]

I see, I see. Cheers for that.

[Emperors Teeth]

Hey guys,

 

How does this sound as starting point for 1750 as potential Xth Legion convert?

New Roster (1750pts)

 

Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness)

• HQ
  • Spearhead-Centurion Castrmen Orth
• Troops
  • Legion Breacher Siege Squad

    14x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, 3x Melta gun

    • Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist

  • Legion Tactical Squad

    14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade

    • Legion Tactical Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon

• Elites
  • Apothecarion Detachment
    • Legion Apothecary

      Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

    • Legion Apothecary

      Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

  • Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought

    Blessed Autosimulacra, Havoc Launcher, Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons

  • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery
    • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

      Graviton Cannon

    • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

      Graviton Cannon

• Heavy Support
  • Legion Heavy Support Squad

    4x Legion Space Marines, Volkite Culverin

    • Legion Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

  • Legion Sicaran Battle Tank

    Armoured Ceramite, Blessed Autosimulacra, Lascannons

  • Legion Vindicator

    Armoured Ceramite, Blessed Autosimulacra, Laser Destroyer Array

• Legion
  • Legion Astartes

    X: Iron Hands

 

It's a little unclear in the list, but does the Heavy Weapons sergeant have a Volkite Culverin? He can take that (LACAL book update) and also buy the scanner.

 

The list seems normal enough, but I don't think you're going to get much mileage out of the Breachers. They have no transport, so getting those melta's into range is going to mean a hard slog at what is probably a target that can move faster than them. You have no provision in the list to transport them. You'd probably be better taking a second Tactical Squad and possible not bothering with the extra cc weapon either. You'd save a lot of points and get more shots with 2 squads Fury of the Legion-ing. You could use the saved points (that'd be around 150pts?) to get a third Graviton Rapier and a Defence Line to bunker-up the Rapiers and one of the squads.

 

You could even reduce one squad down to 10 and take a Rhino as an objective-grabbing unit. Maybe squeeze a few points from somewhere and make the non-mounted unit a 20-man blob?

[Cadmus Tyro]

Brothers, I was hoping for some advice regarding LOW choices for the Xth

 

Trying to decide whether to go down the Ferrus/Spartan/deathstar route. Or a typhon!

 

Does anyone have experience using Ferrus?

 

Cheers!

[Raktra]

Well it was lucky dice, but my only use of him so far had him holding up ten terminators and a super-buffed Lorgar for about thirteen rounds of combat. So he's a good lad. Mind, nothing much beats outflanking a Glaive and wiping out a whole battle line at once.

[Cadmus Tyro]

The glaive does look awesome, Perhaps I could be tempted to extend the budget!

The terminators/Spartan/Ferrus idea seems like a massive points sink to me, I worry about putting over 1000pts into a single unit.

Any other suggestions for a "primarch delivery" method? Or would it be worth just foot slogging with a mass of tactical marines?

[Emperors Teeth]

I played in a big game where someone put Angron and a unit in a Storm Eagle. I thought it was a terrible idea, and it was for the unit at least. Inevitably the Storm Eagle took an army's worth of firepower and was downed within a turn or two (no Flak to shoot it accurately). This ended somewhat badly as despite killing almost everyone aboard, there was of course one survivor, now in the center of our deployment zone... and he was angry.

[Cadmus Tyro]

he he, just like Istvaan 3.... 

 

I'm not sure our Primarch would do as well on his own, Angron seems like murder to most infantry squads. Whereas Ferrus seems best against tougher targets, his small number of attacks would see him tar-pitted against larger infantry squads. But that's just my observation, rather than based on any practical experience. 

 

How about running him with a command squad in a dreadclaw? Turn 1 deepstrike, keep the squad embarked, guaranteed turn 2 assault. Would that leave him too isolated? 

[Emperors Teeth]

It's cheap-ish, and would cause 2 things to happen: You opponent would immediately make an open space around the drop pod, and it would disrupt his plans even more than Drop Pods usually do. Primarch-presence-power having that effect.

 

Better still if he shoots it to bits, as it draws fire from the rest of your army and Ferrus will still likely survive.

[Cadmus Tyro]

Anyone use him footslogging with infantry? Perhaps 20 tactical marines or 10 tartaros terminators?

[Raktra]

Gorgons. The FNP is invaluable.

[Cadmus Tyro]

Unfortunately, I invested in a ten man squad of tartaros before the Gorgons were released.

 

But I agree, the benefits the Gorgans bring more than justify their higher cost. I suppose with Ferrus, they will still get FNP 6+, and we don't want to make it too hard for the traitors......

[Raktra]

Ah fair shout then. Give 'em plasma blasters so you can throw out a good fistful of AP2 before thr charge. Do iiiit.

[Cadmus Tyro]

I'm starting to come round to the Spartan transport idea.... I put this list together a while ago but didn't get much feedback:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311342-iron-hands-adding-to-the-list/?do=findComment&comment=4127196

 

With the release of the quad mortars today, I'm tempted! Thoughts/Feedback would be most welcome!