[HH1.0] Iron Hands Tactics

[Shaolin_Monkey]

Is it actually worth taking them as transports though?

I keep looking at running three as a heavy choice so I can outfit one with an Exploratory Web and scout all three.

 

Apart from the lack of 1 heavy choice which isn't massive for me is there any reason not to do this?

[Charlo]

They're vulnerable to squadron limitations. So instead of multiple explode results happening to one with no I'll effects, additional ones will pass onto the next in the squadron.

 

So using them as transports makes it risky.

 

That said, putting units inside, scouting then getting turn one and moving another 6 and disembarking is probably enough movement as it is.

[Teun135]

Just popping in to say: as a new Heresy Era player, I have been finding this thread invaluable. Thanks for the tips so far!

[Terminus]

 

 

What I mean is that the option is there for modeling porposes. Not in the hopes of gettting an additional attack

I see, sorry didn't understand. Well that would be sad :-\

 

I emailed Forgeworld for an official opinion

This is obnoxious. First off, the rules are clear as day. Second, nothing FW responds to in emails is official.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Tank squadrons are double edged swords. They allow for more boddies and fire power for the slot, but resulting damage carrying over cam be mitigated by using range and line of sight.

 

This works well enough at range, but on a transport squadron it can be very problematic as you have to get up close and personal. If a vehicule is immobilized or can't move it just makes it that much easier to cripple them.

[Tiger9gamer]

So I played against the iron warriors and got WRECKED. Long table edges, first turn and tons of anti-tank all went in his favor, plus I didn't really deploy right. I don't know if 20 man squads are worth it when faced with phosphor blasts.

[Teun135]

So I played against the iron warriors and got WRECKED. Long table edges, first turn and tons of anti-tank all went in his favor, plus I didn't really deploy right. I don't know if 20 man squads are worth it when faced with phosphor blasts.

 

I imagine with all those infantry, you probably had some issues with mobility as well? How do you mean you didn't deploy right?

[Tiger9gamer]

 

So I played against the iron warriors and got WRECKED. Long table edges, first turn and tons of anti-tank all went in his favor, plus I didn't really deploy right. I don't know if 20 man squads are worth it when faced with phosphor blasts.

 

I imagine with all those infantry, you probably had some issues with mobility as well? How do you mean you didn't deploy right?

 

I wasn't paying attention and I  put my 2 vindicators right in front of his lascannon  and  forgot I was going second   So he took down my vindicators quickly and I had no more anti-everything fire.

 

and I only ran 1 squad of 20 tacticals with my apothecary and preator, but it evaporated under two thudd guns. 

[Slips]

And theres pretty much a perfect example of why most people I know dont run 20man blobs without a vehicle.

 

Its also why 10man squads in a rhino are a better investment: youre not template fodder.

 

Imagine if it was a Medusa? S10(9 IH) means you wouldnt even have gotten FNP and all your multiwounds would have been ID'd.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Tiger9gamer]

And theres pretty much a perfect example of why most people I know dont run 20man blobs without a vehicle.

 

Its also why 10man squads in a rhino are a better investment: youre not template fodder.

 

Imagine if it was a Medusa? S10(9 IH) means you wouldnt even have gotten FNP and all your multiwounds would have been ID'd.

I had one too, but it seems so puny compared to the 20 man squad.  maybe multiple squads without transports would be good?

[Slips]

Against an Ironfire Iron Warriors? Youd die just as fast, get nowhere near as far as moving 12+" for 1-2 turns while being immune to most anti-infantry fire, while also devoting more points to something that is only ever going to be good at: Capping Objectives, Dying in Droves and Killing other infantry. Which, lets be honest, for not much more Tac Vets also Cap Objectives while being more versatile in their application.

 

It might visually look puny but being in a rhino and thus immune to S5 Shooting or below (to front AV), it's more than worth it since it means those Phosphex Batteries would have done literally no damage to your Tac Squads until they disembarked since S4 can't glance it and the S8 Sunder Shot are direct fire only meaning you would have been able to avoid them.

 

And if they're shooting anti-tank at Rhinos, its anti-tank not going into your more important stuff.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Teun135]

So in 30k, you can put Havoc launchers on the Rhinos, right? Is there a reason not to? It seems worth the points to make the rhino more than just a transport.

[Tiger9gamer]

Against an Ironfire Iron Warriors? Youd die just as fast, get nowhere near as far as moving 12+" for 1-2 turns while being immune to most anti-infantry fire, while also devoting more points to something that is only ever going to be good at: Capping Objectives, Dying in Droves and Killing other infantry. Which, lets be honest, for not much more Tac Vets also Cap Objectives while being more versatile in their application.

 

It might visually look puny but being in a rhino and thus immune to S5 Shooting or below (to front AV), it's more than worth it since it means those Phosphex Batteries would have done literally no damage to your Tac Squads until they disembarked since S4 can't glance it and the S8 Sunder Shot are direct fire only meaning you would have been able to avoid them.

 

And if they're shooting anti-tank at Rhinos, its anti-tank not going into your more important stuff.

 

True. I may try that next time I bring out my iron hands, but I need some other way to kill those darn iron warriors

[Slips]

Well, what did he bring?

 

What was the entriety of his list? Because without that info, We cant really point you in the right direction :p

[Flint13]

So in 30k, you can put Havoc launchers on the Rhinos, right? Is there a reason not to? It seems worth the points to make the rhino more than just a transport.

 

I'd shoot for a different pintle mount if you're going that direction.

 

The Havok launcher seems a bit overpriced @15pts for a single Str5Ap5 blast. I'd aim for a heavy bolter if anything. A multi melta seems like it could be a good idea, but a little too expensive as well, I think.

 

I've gotten used to tossing an extra combi-bolter on there to double its tiny firepower :lol:

[Tiger9gamer]

Well, what did he bring?

 

What was the entriety of his list? Because without that info, We cant really point you in the right direction

 

 

my bad!

 

at 2,500 points he brought:

Preator with Thunder hammer and in tartaros armor

Siege Breaker Centurion

 

x3 units of tactical marines

2 quad launcher batteries with phosphor

2 Iron Circle Robots

5 tyrant siege terminators

5 lascannon Iron warrior guys

contemptor Mortis with 2 assault cannons

Leviathan Dread with 2 autocannons

 

 

 

and I brought:

 

Preator with Paragon blade, arti armor and iron halo/ Cyber familiar

Preavian with 2 Enhanced targeting Castellex robots (actually did pretty well)

 

 20 man squad of Tactical marines with extra CCW, an apothecary with artificer armor

10 man tactical squad in a rhino

10 man support squad with volkite chargers in a rhino

 

10 tactical vets with 2 plasmas in a rhino with the sniper USR

1 Quad launcher with shatter shells

 

1  plasma executioner pred

2 POTMS Vindicators (Got destroyed turn 1 by anti-tank turn 1)

1 Whirlwind Scorpius 

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Tiger9gamer

[Memento Of Prospero]

If you were using HotG, you should of outflanked the vindicators or keep them out of sight on deployment. He had no mobility, so you should have spent the game using yours to grab objectives and engage late, forcing him to come out and reposition. Tables should have plenty of terrain the setup behind to at the very least grab cover.

[Charlo]

Seconded on pintles.

 

A combi weapon is quite nice too, a couple of plasmagun or flamer shots is nice to add to the rapid fire of whatever disembarks.

[Cadmus Tyro]

Any mileage putting orth in a proteus with additional pintle lascannon? I'm thinking, outflank it using HoG carrying a squad of breachers, heavy points investment though!

[Charlo]

Personally I really like the triple lascannons on a Proteus. Really nice volume of quality shots.

[Teun135]

Any mileage putting orth in a proteus with additional pintle lascannon? I'm thinking, outflank it using HoG carrying a squad of breachers, heavy points investment though!

If you are using it as a tank rather than an assault transport, it's still much cheaper than a phobos, and hits harder. I actually am putting together a list around this... basically going to be 3x proteus landraiders in a squadron (with command tank) and a Cerebus, with orth and a few tactical squads. Don't know how effective it would be, but that's a lot of TL lascannon shots and AV14.

[Luna707]

Does adding the third las remove any transport capacity? 

[Slips]

Does adding the third las remove any transport capacity? 

Nope. It takes the place that the hull heavy bolster or heavy flamer would ( a normal proteus does not come with those stock)

[Luna707]

 

Does adding the third las remove any transport capacity? 

Nope. It takes the place that the hull heavy bolster or heavy flamer would ( a normal proteus does not come with those stock)

 

I think I may have just found a ride for my immortals :)

[Cadmus Tyro]

 

 

Any mileage putting orth in a proteus with additional pintle lascannon? I'm thinking, outflank it using HoG carrying a squad of breachers, heavy points investment though!

 

If you are using it as a tank rather than an assault transport, it's still much cheaper than a phobos, and hits harder. I actually am putting together a list around this... basically going to be 3x proteus landraiders in a squadron (with command tank) and a Cerebus, with orth and a few tactical squads. Don't know how effective it would be, but that's a lot of TL lascannon shots and AV14.

Sounds like a tough list! I was thinking of a breacher squad with flamers, so deploy when you need to tarpit and taunt the enemy into charging. I think a proteus suits the breachers well as they gain no benefit from the charge and also deny the enemy their additional attack. So deploy, shoot, over watch and then combat....with a breaching charge......

 

Hopefully hold the enemy in position for a counter assault.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Cadmus Tyro