[HH1.0] Iron Hands Tactics

[Gorgoff]

I second that. Our club plays every Tuesday from 7 to 11 in the evening. That's just perfect for a 2000 points game of HH. And yeah, it feels like back in the days Warhammer 40.000. :)

[RandomMarine]

Yeah I've hit 5k with gw tanks and most of the marines are plastic with the odd fw bit the only real resin I have is 20 breachers,ferrus,contemptors and some gorgons

[TheDecay]

I found a small note about this on page 31 of the thread but just wanted to clarify:

If I have a Praevian with Castellax and Ferrus Manus in my list, that interaction gives the Castellax FNP since they have the legion astartes (iron hands) rule?
And essentially toughness 8....yeeeesh!

[Slips]

Yes.

[RandomMarine]

Yep

[Charlo]

Brutal.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Brutal.

That is the Iron Tenth way.

[Charlo]

It really is, of all the Legions they are one who I have an ongoing craving to try for sure. Head of the Gorgon is just SUCH an amazing Rite when run with Ferrus etc

 

They can make really fluffy and powerful lists too.

 

But I already have another 3 or so legions I flirt with so it's all too much!

[ANGRYMARINE]

Iron Hands have been my only and first Space Marine Legion I've played as in 30k, I went up against World Eaters using the company of bitter iron and had an assaulty murderfest. The Gorgon's blinding shenanigans helped me kill a lot of Butchers and even Khârn got blinded and obliterated by my hammer dude. Gorgon's are great beatsticks with hatred, and it made my assault marines pretty decent too vs some rampagers.

 

In our next game I'll be using the following going up against Angron and lots of things in Drop Pods:

 

2496/2500 Pts

 

Rite of War: Head of the Gorgon

 

HQ

Autek Mor (225 pts)

 

Troops

Legion Tactical Squad x10 (188 pts)

-Artificier Armor

-CCW x9

-Power Axe

 

DT: Land Raider Phobos (260 pts)

-Blessed Autosimulacra

-Auxiliary Drive

-Armored Ceramite

 

Legion Tactical Squad x10 (188 pts)

-Artificier Armor

-CCW x9

-Power Axe

 

DT: Land Raider Phobos (260 pts)

-Blessed Autosimulacra

-Auxiliary Drive

-Armored Ceramite

 

Elites

Gorgon Terminators x10 (425 pts)
-Cyber Familiar

-Grenade Harness

- 2x Graviton Gun

 

Medusan Immortals x10 (330 pts)

-Artificier Armor

-Volkite charger x8

-Graviton Gun x2

 

Techmarine Covenant (90 pts)

-Conversion Beamer

-Volkite Charger

 

Fast Attack:

Drop Pod (35 pts)

 

Lord of War:

Ferrus Mannus (455 pts)

Edited September 21, 2016 by ANGRYMARINE

[Lord Asvaldir]

There's an illegal choice in your list: the drop pod. Unlike in 40k, you can't just take a lone drop pod as a fast attack choice and throw whatever you want in it, in 30k drop pods are only allowed as DTs. Dreadclaws are fast attack however so you could use one of those. 

 

As far as your list goes, your choice of giving good transports to tacticals, and none to the gorgons or immortals is not really a great choice. Yes it's fun especially for Iron Hands to run an all raider list, but the gorgons in particular absolutely need an assault transport, while the tacticals really can make do with rhinos, or if you're really dedicated to the land raider idea give them the land raider proetus which is cheaper. 

 

The other note I'd add is your immortals have a very strange weapons loadout, because you have graviton for dealing with tanks and volkite for dealing with infantry in a unit that doesn't have splitfire. I'd tailor them to fight infantry or vehicles, not both. 

[ANGRYMARINE]

There's an illegal choice in your list: the drop pod. Unlike in 40k, you can't just take a lone drop pod as a fast attack choice and throw whatever you want in it, in 30k drop pods are only allowed as DTs. Dreadclaws are fast attack however so you could use one of those. 

 

As far as your list goes, your choice of giving good transports to tacticals, and none to the gorgons or immortals is not really a great choice. Yes it's fun especially for Iron Hands to run an all raider list, but the gorgons in particular absolutely need an assault transport, while the tacticals really can make do with rhinos, or if you're really dedicated to the land raider idea give them the land raider proetus which is cheaper. 

 

The other note I'd add is your immortals have a very strange weapons loadout, because you have graviton for dealing with tanks and volkite for dealing with infantry in a unit that doesn't have splitfire. I'd tailor them to fight infantry or vehicles, not both. 

 

I'd take a transport for the Gorgons if I could but my plan is to keep them in my deployment zone with Ferrus and Autek and kind of bait in a bunch of world eaters while I bring in my tanks by outflanking. I'd be using the techmarine to lay down some AP1 blasts at long range (this has always proven to be effective). And thank you for pointing out the error in the list! As for the immortals I plan on using them to take down drop pods while having the rest of them equipped with weapons superior to bolters, I've found volkites to be pretty useful for overwatch. As for the land raiders I want to have the option to assault, although with the tacticals I won't do that unless it is going into an already ongoing assault.

 

I'll tweak it around a bit to free up some more points for a dreadclaw and all that jazz.

 

Would it be better to forget about the drop pod and keep my immortals with the gorgons as an additional stubborn unit in the deployment zone?

[Lord Asvaldir]

Immortals are more effective at close range, so they really could use a transport of some sort. And sure, volkite is nice for overwatach, but is it really worth the 5pts/m? I wouldn't say so. Volkite is solid if you equip the entire unit to be anti infantry, but it just doesn't make sense to throw so many pts into volkites when you want to have the unit focus on taking out armor. 

 

On the gorgons, sure that bait idea might work against this one WE opponent, but it's really not a good plan for a well rounded list. Except for the techmarine, you have very limited long range firepower, and any list that has more than you will just sit back and watch those gorgons die to ap2 templates, which they do very easily considering they get only a +5 invul and no fnp vs weapons like demolisher cannons. Large units of terminators in any legion really need a transport to be effective. 

[ANGRYMARINE]

Immortals are more effective at close range, so they really could use a transport of some sort. And sure, volkite is nice for overwatach, but is it really worth the 5pts/m? I wouldn't say so. Volkite is solid if you equip the entire unit to be anti infantry, but it just doesn't make sense to throw so many pts into volkites when you want to have the unit focus on taking out armor. 

 

On the gorgons, sure that bait idea might work against this one WE opponent, but it's really not a good plan for a well rounded list. Except for the techmarine, you have very limited long range firepower, and any list that has more than you will just sit back and watch those gorgons die to ap2 templates, which they do very easily considering they get only a +5 invul and no fnp vs weapons like demolisher cannons. Large units of terminators in any legion really need a transport to be effective. 

 

Alright me and my friend have upped the points of this game a bit and I can say now that my list is fully mechanized, here's the revised one:

 

2846/2850 Pts

 

Rite of War: Head of the Gorgon

 

HQ

Autek Mor (225 pts)

 

Troops

Legion Tactical Squad x10 (183 pts)

-Artificier Armor

-CCW x9

-Power Axe

 

DT: Land Raider Phobos (260 pts)

-Blessed Autosimulacra

-Auxiliary Drive

-Armored Ceramite

 

Legion Tactical Squad x10 (183 pts)

-Artificier Armor

-CCW x9

-Power Axe

 

DT: Land Raider Phobos (260 pts)

-Blessed Autosimulacra

-Auxiliary Drive

-Armored Ceramite

 

Elites

Gorgon Terminators x10 (415 pts)

-Cyber Familiar

-Heavy Flamer x2

 

Medusan Immortals x10 (345 pts)

-Artificier Armor

-Cyber Familiar

-Volkite charger x8

-Graviton Gun x2

 

Techmarine Covenant (85 pts)

-Conversion Beamer

-Volkite Charger

 

Heavy Support:

Spartan Assault Tank (340 pts)

-Blessed Autosimulacra

-Armored Ceramite

-Auxiliary Drive

-Pintle Mounted Heavy Flamer

 

Fast Attack:

Anvilus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100 pts)

-Blessed Autosimulacra

 

Lord of War:

Ferrus Mannus (455 pts)

 

The Land Raiders will be in reserve with the drop pod and the Spartan and Techie will not be in reserve. With Ferrus and Autek Mor in the spartan in addition to all of its upgrades I think my friend is going to have a hard time bringing it down. My goal is to charge my enemies before they charge me but first the conversion beamer and lascannons should chip away some red butchers.

 

As for the Volkites S5 is better than having S4 bolters, and they'll likely be able to glance down some drop pods and more reliably wound space marines than bolters would. The graviton guns at the very least have a chance of wounding and concussing someone too.

Edited September 23, 2016 by ANGRYMARINE

[Memento Of Prospero]

If he is bringing Butchers to back up Angron, you need to invest in power/chain fists, because power axes wont cut it.

 

I'd cut some random Familiars in order to afford a rhino for your immortals.

 

I'd move the spartan to dedicated for the Gorgons.

 

Dozer blades before Auxilary Drive, especially for transports.

 

A Leviathan with Snippy Claw and Grav Flux Bombard would do some serious work in this list.

[Emperors Teeth]

If he is bringing Butchers to back up Angron, you need to invest in power/chain fists, because power axes wont cut it.

 

I'd cut some random Familiars in order to afford a rhino for your immortals.

 

I'd move the spartan to dedicated for the Gorgons.

 

Dozer blades before Auxilary Drive, especially for transports.

 

A Leviathan with Snippy Claw and Grav Flux Bombard would do some serious work in this list.

 

"...power axes won't cut it..." badum tshhh!

 

Immortals can only take LR's & Spartans as Transports. He's right though, they ought to get a ride of some kind. Graviton Guns are also Heavy, so they won't be mobile at all, as is.

[ANGRYMARINE]

If he is bringing Butchers to back up Angron, you need to invest in power/chain fists, because power axes wont cut it.

 

Well the squad is going to be containing Ferrus Mannus so him and Mor ought to help get in some more instant death on top of the hammerbearer. And I'm putting my immortals in the dreadclaw.

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

If he is bringing Butchers to back up Angron, you need to invest in power/chain fists, because power axes wont cut it.

 

Well the squad is going to be containing Ferrus Mannus so him and Mor ought to help get in some more instant death on top of the hammerbearer. And I'm putting my immortals in the dreadclaw.

 

 

Unless your Opponent forgets he's got Angron, you won't get to hit the squad before Angron is dead.

[ANGRYMARINE]

 

 

If he is bringing Butchers to back up Angron, you need to invest in power/chain fists, because power axes wont cut it.

 

Well the squad is going to be containing Ferrus Mannus so him and Mor ought to help get in some more instant death on top of the hammerbearer. And I'm putting my immortals in the dreadclaw.

 

 

Unless your Opponent forgets he's got Angron, you won't get to hit the squad before Angron is dead.

 

 

Mathhammer wise in a challenge if Mannus can get in a hit with his hammer he's got much better chances, especially if I'm able to blind Angron and Khârn. I forgot to mention that he's bringing Khârn too.

 

We're both very new to 30k, this is our first game and we are using a lot of proxies. I don't plan on IH being one of my 30k armies but my friend decided on them, World Eaters, and Blood Angels.

[Flint13]

^Unfortunately Forgebreaker doesn't have Blind until it falls into Perturabo's care.

 

It does have concussive and strike down, though.

[temneb]

Yeah Angron and butchers don't do that well against Mannus and termies.

[ANGRYMARINE]

^Unfortunately Forgebreaker doesn't have Blind until it falls into Perturabo's care.

 

It does have concussive and strike down, though.

 

I was talking about the Gorgon Terminator armor

[temneb]

Your going to be making a lot of saves v the butchers so good chance. It's an area effect right?

[Slips]

A single Blind Test per phase on a successful 5+ Invulnerable Save? Its not really anything to write home about and he's definitely not going to be shooting your squad before charging in.

[Flint13]

Yeah Angron and butchers don't do that well against Mannus and termies.

Eh, how do you figure?

 

Red Butchers have a much better offensive output and a better invulnerable save than gorgons. Angron can prevent you from hiding your support ICs behind Ferrus and causes instant death to whatever he hits in that squad that isn't Ferrus.

 

  

 

^Unfortunately Forgebreaker doesn't have Blind until it falls into Perturabo's care.

It does have concussive and strike down, though.

 

I was talking about the Gorgon Terminator armor

Considering your sentence read "if Manus can get a hit in with his hammer," I hope you can understand the confusion ^_^

[Baluc]

My head math says 10 Red Butchers do 11 unsaved wounds to Gorgons... on the charge. In this case you might actually be better off with Immortals, taking half the attacls, hitting first (against a better save) and the same effective save but more wounds. And hope you do enough wounds between Breacher charge, over watch, fist on the sgt, 11 S4 attacks, and 3 lascutters?