[HH1.0] Salamanders Tactics

[Carraigf]

Hey folks - so I know there've been a few comments around this already but what are the pro's and cons of the various land raider variants as transports for Pyroclasts - I know they're not necessarily the best unit to field vs regular support squads etc but thanks to my very generous wife I now have 15 of the wee fellas - some I'll convert for artificer armoured chosen or centurions but as to the rest:

 

9/10 in a Phobos or Proteus...

8 in a Proteus with augur array...

6 in an Achilles... (maybe x 2)...

 

...just not sure how to truck them about - or wether to support them with an apothecary - your thoughts and experience would be welcome as always :)

 

For background the rest of my force is currently 1.5k with Praetor, 5 Drakes, 20 Tacs, Spartan, 2 Rhinos and a Sicaran - with a Predator Infernus and Contemptor on the to buy list. And as for tactics it mostly as a flank securer/objective capture role - in my head at least last game they were on the receiving end of a IXth legion CC Contemptor charge and it ended poorly :(

[ElectricPaladin]

What do you guys think about heavy flamers on jetbikes? Too fragile for a close-up weapon? Good Overwatch protection for a unit that's mostly contributing as a mobile platform for a special weapon (meltagun, culverin, or plasma cannon) anyway? Thoughts?

[Charlo]

Better than a heavy bolter in every way except range. But seeing as you're on a jet bike not an issue!

[Carraigf]

In a bigger squad I'd go for it - S5 is good but it's still low on AP so the more dice the better

[GreyCrow]

Better than a heavy bolter in every way except range. But seeing as you're on a jet bike not an issue!

 

Jinking is an issue for sure, but it's going to make the target a bullet magnet which could be good for the rest of the army :D

[Slips]

Salamanders get +1S to flamers so their Heavy Flamers are nasty because thats their Legion Rules (unless its tied to a RoW). Edited May 6, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Carraigf]

...so they do - face palm - rolled lots of 2s last game too :( Edited May 6, 2016 by Carraigf

[Slips]

...so they do - face palm - rolled lots of 2s last game too

Well, now you know that you have S6 Flamers capable of mulching infantry and Av12 or Lower :p

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I am finally getting around to putting my BaC Dreadnoughts and I'm unsure on whether to go with Salamander dreadnoughts or World Eaters. 

 

I'm thinking Salamanders. 

 

I currently have two Sally dreds:

 

Mortis w/TL Autocannon

...Stock with fist and heavy bolter. Derp

 

Now I'm thinking on what loadout - Kheres are sickeningly disgusting with 6 rending shots, but CoF seems to work well with dreadnoughts. The multi-melta gets re-rolls and you get a small invuln versus non-lascannon AV, which seems quite nice while being fluffy. 

 

Any suggestions? Just keep with the kheres or try MM?

[Charlo]

Depends on the meta really?

 

If there is a lot of Ceramite around the MM is going to be overall weaker, as it is one shot which, while having a good chance to explode, won't scratch high AV very easily. Whereas the Kheres can consistently chip away.

[Carraigf]

I've gone for Fist & Melta on mine, so far not much AC in my meta but expect that to change as we work up to higher points. Was planning to have 2 with this loadout then one dual Kheres - but having seen how deadly the choom can be considering Volkite Culverins in stead - always have my Sicaran for taking out low armoured flyers - 4 shots TL plus Deflagrate sounds kind of awesome 

[ThatOneMarshal]

Honestly I would say a kheres as there is almost never a game where you won't find a target for it. It can crack light vehicles, infantry including termies on good rolls, and MCs. Your multi melta is instead just relegated to anti tank duty.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Thanks guys, it was obvious before and after than the Kheres is such a meta weapon it would be silly to not use it. 

 

I've actually taken the plunge and ordered a hand drill & magnets, so I can now swap out weapon arms. So can playtest it to my hearts desire!

[Charlo]

If you run pods a Contemptor with a Melta can really ruin something like a Scorpius or Medusa of course remember. So there is use for all the weapons :D

[God-Potato of Mankind]

If you run pods a Contemptor with a Melta can really ruin something like a Scorpius or Medusa of course remember. So there is use for all the weapons

 

I'm really unsure how to run my Salamanders. World Eaters are so straightforward, they work in drop & armour. Their RoWs aren't restrictive....I'm going to go with Kheresnaughts for them instead now.

 

I have sooo many Salamanders - I actually own 20 Salamander Tartaros terminators, 5 HF marines, 5 MM marines from my times as a pure collector that I can't really fathom how I'd use them. 

 

I'm gonna stick with the Pyroclasts, Breachers & Land Raiders for now. 

[Charlo]

Salamanders are one where thier special Rites of War are good, but I think thier units and bonuses are so good anyway that they don't need them to shine.

 

Orbital assault is wonderful with all that flame and Melta!

[ThatOneMarshal]

Thrown in some fire drakes in a dreadclaw and you've got a mean list.

[Charlo]

Thrown in some fire drakes in a dreadclaw and you've got a mean list.

 

Yep, exactly. Drakes are great as the 2W and 3++ totally mitigate the ability to only take 5 of them in a Dreadclaw.

 

If you are a true baller-mander though you take 9, a Primus Medicae and Vulkan in a Kharybdis 

[ElectricPaladin]

 

Thrown in some fire drakes in a dreadclaw and you've got a mean list.

 

Yep, exactly. Drakes are great as the 2W and 3++ totally mitigate the ability to only take 5 of them in a Dreadclaw.

 

If you are a true baller-mander though you take 9, a Primus Medicae and Vulkan in a Kharybdis 

 

They ain't bad in a spartan, either! Hell, they aren't bad in anything.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

So I'm pretty happy with my Pyroclast Land Raider list, but I have a bunch of models on the shelf I've been wanting to use so I've been trying to put them into a list. My primary goal is to play with something new. I've got heavy armour via the Pyro list and dreadclaws full of nasties with my World Eaters. 

 

So my plan was to work with Caestii (I love the model), breachers and anti-grav (mostly because I have these already on the shelf) and I reaaaaaaaally want to use the deimos vindis for some reason. 

 

So I came up with this, which I think would be a fairly decent list, but dependent on reserves which could be sucky as I frequently fight Corax the little bugger and his reserve modifiers...but here it is, I think it has sufficient early board stay - obviously lots of focus will go to the Glaive but the jetbikes can zoom out to douse whatever infantry can threaten it and the Vindicators can explode the vehicles (Maybe go with a trio of Laser Destroyers instead for heavy duty AV?)  The Javelins can support whichever and the Forgelord has augury so he can douse any deepstriking units in 3x Heavy Flamers and rad grenades. 

Then hopefully the Caestii arrive and disgorge breachers into something nasty. 

 

Thoughts? 

 

HQ

Centurion - FL with Jetbike, rad grenades, volkite charger, augury scanner, thunder hammer, heavy flamer (on jetbike), cyberfam, refractor

 

Troops

2x 10 Breacher - 2x Melta guns. Officers with artificer powerfists, armour and melta bombs

 

Fast Attack 

2x Javelin with multi-melta and 2x HKs

3x Jetbike 2x HF 1x Volkite 

3x Jetbike 2x HF 1x Volkite

 

Heavy Support

2x Caestus - Missile Launchers

3x Vindicator - AC & weapons to taste 

 

LoW 

Glaive - AC 

 

Points: 3k 

 

Can be reduced to a nice 2.5k list with simple removal of the Glaive.

Edited May 30, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Charlo]

Works for me. Heat death from every angle!

 

I'd be tempted to, as always, remove the melta guns from the breachers for flamers. They work better on both offense and defence and you will have enough melta with the Caestii / Javelin/ Vindicators/ GLAIVE! I'm just an advocate of specializing units and maximizing thier potential. Though I'm sure a case could be made for them jumping out in front of a transport and adding to the Melta fire from the Castus to charge the insides. Then again breachers doing the charging seems a waste too?

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Swapping the specials on the breachers is easily done. I can alook factor in a dreadclaw with Firedrakes if I drop the Vindicators.

 

Also made a Falchion variant which is Vindicators and jetbike Medicae or Firedrake dreadclaw and magnamelta preds. Lots of interchangeability with what's on my shelf withough compromising my efficacy.

[BlueBelly1863]

Hello fellow sons (and daughters) of Nocturne! First post in the tactics thread, because I'm finally able to start putting my 30k force on the table. (Itching to roll some dice.) But I need some help! I need to decide what to invest in next. I have all the units from a box of BaC as well as a squad of pyroclasts. But what should be some of the next units I pick up? Firedrakes? Tanks? Both? Any advice would be deeply appreciated! 

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Hello fellow sons (and daughters) of Nocturne! First post in the tactics thread, because I'm finally able to start putting my 30k force on the table. (Itching to roll some dice.) But I need some help! I need to decide what to invest in next. I have all the units from a box of BaC as well as a squad of pyroclasts. But what should be some of the next units I pick up? Firedrakes? Tanks? Both? Any advice would be deeply appreciated! 

 

Welcome to the XVIII Legion, you chose wisely as all things are susceptible to being on fire or melted. 

 

The BaC is a great core. I'd suggest the following for units

 

1) Troop Tax - 30 tacticals means you can easily have 2x10 Tactical squads, the delectable core of many lists

2) Contemptor support - Kheres contemptors are really solid, reliable units. There are units that do it better and for less/same cost though.

3) Terminator support - best in a Dreadclaw or Land Raider. Kit them out for shooting over melee. If you want melee terminators I'd suggest sticking to the Firedrakes. 

4) Veteran support - Veterans are glorious, great opportunity to be artistic with kitbashing and have very flexible loadouts. Consider flamers or meltas (why below)

 

HQ 

 

1) Terminator Captain - PRAETOR, PRAETOR AND MORE PRAETOR. Salamanders have one of the best Praetors - equip with Mantle of the Elderdrake, Stormshield and master-crafted Paragon blade for a 2+,3++, EW, rerollable AP2 at Iniative beast that just won't die. 

2) Centurion options:

Meh:

Champion (We don't do melee too well, the main draw to the Champ IIRC is the free master-craft which we get for 5points on better choices)

Moritat (Not even choosable anyway)

Loyalist Herald (Unsure if anyone would ever run traitor Drakes) but +1WS isn't hugely useful for this Legion

Great

Foreglords - glorious array of wargear and fluffy to boot. Rad grenades are epic but perhaps not the most fluffy option

Primus Medicae - We have a lot of resilient infantry - why not boost your 2+ Pyroclasts with FNP? Exceptionally fun with Firedrakes to make them further unkillable)

Praevian - Personal favourite, +1S flamers on Castellax makes me a happy Potato

Master of Signals - Glorious for any list that focus on firepower (That's us, yay!) +1BS and a great bombardment are a solid investment. 

Average/Specific

Siege Breaker - Solid, dependable choice. Can't use phosphex with this Legion so not as useful as when used in other lists

Vigilator - Not fluffy, useable though and can get you close and the sabotage attack is good, trolly fun

Delegatus - For cheap RoWs

Vanilla Centurion - Gear him with some good wargear, he can be a decent beatstick for cheaper than the above

Librarian - Word Bearers do it better. His use is really hampered by being a support officer. The Awakening Fire RoW IIRC needs a Chaplain so it's hard to include for that reason without a huge investment in your HQ points. General Librarians are just outshone by other HQ choices imo

 

RoWs/Listbuilding

 

Ok now big question - you have your BaC box, but how do you want to play it? The RoWs give you a good baseline - do you want mechanised infantry, armoured assault, heavy armour firepower, drop assaults, flyer drop assaults, fortified infantry etc. 

 

If you're not planning on deepstriking anything Covenant of Fire is decent but ensure you have lots of melta and use those pyroclasts. This list favours a mechanised playstyle. Unit suggestions:

Melta support squads

Multi-melta heavy squads

Land Raiders with pintle multi-meltas

Dreadnoughts with multi-melta, hand meltas

Pyroclasts 

Jetbikes (swap HB to HFs for free + 1 multi-melta per 3)

Javelins with multi-melta

Leviathans with the melta lance

Terminators with combi-meltas

 

Be aware that alot of units have twin-linked multi-meltas so lose their potency from the free master crafting, like the Land Raider Achilles

 

Our other RoW is Awakening Fire. It's pretty meh but has relatively few restrictions. The main draw is army-wide Fear for little cost, which can help nullify enemy melee. The Librarian power is ... meh. 3 Warp charges is a lot for maximum ML2 libbies and requires a Chaplain before you even get to buy a Librarian, which also means you need to buy a Master of the Legion. This can be nullified by purchasing Xiaphus Jurr who's both a Chaplain and a Libby, but again is restrictive. 

 

General RoWs

 

Salamanders go GREAT with drop pods. Load up on melta and go to work. 

Salamanders go GREAT with Land Raiders. Load up on melta and go to work (and apply Covenant of Fire for free MC'd on said melta)

Salamanders go GREAT with heavy flamers. Load up on any unit that features heavy bolters and get free +1S HFs. 

 

So armoured spearhead is a good shout, CoF with Pyros in Raiders, Skyhunter phalanx for massed heavy flamer jetbikes etc

 

As a base for what you have now, I'd grab some Land Raiders and Rhinos, fill them with tacticals, pyroclasts and combi-melta terminators for a flexible list. Sprinkle on Kheres-Contemptor for mobile fire support.

Edited June 3, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Charlo]

Orbital assault is pretty great as well.

 

Gets your close ranged support in range with no effort and your morale and resilience means you are okay normally.

 

No one wants Vulkan rampaging through thier lines but outside of a squad of lascannons not much will hurt him. Even then it would take a LOT of lascannons to down him. Drop him solo in a dreadclaw.