[HH1.0] Salamanders Tactics

[Black Cohort]

Jetbikes with heavy flamers are cool.

[Tlob]

I have been thinking a bit more about the salamanders' legion rule Nocturne Born. It seems like it overly handicaps the legion in melees due to the reality that, barring extremes of dice rolling, you will almost never outrun enemy marines in sweeping advances. This means that winning the assault phase is far less rewarding and losing it has far more potential for damage. In defense of this, due to Strength of Will, Salamanders are more likely to pass leadership checks. However, this is only a defense when losing combats and does nothing to remedy the slowness in sweeping the enemy.

 

The conclusion I've come to as a result of this is that, outside of using cataphractii terminators/firedrakes, there is pretty much no incentive to field or pursue melee. Salamanders get slightly better flamers, which make the threat of overwatch a slight defense against enemy assaults. However, this is only of relevance for a few units (support squads, heavy support squads, pyroclasts, and veterans).

 

Furthermore, when one compares the Salamanders to the Death Guard, things become ever more disappointing. Their disadvantage in sweeping is no where near as damaging, though their leadership is not as reliable. Yet their flamers are statistically better at inflicting damage (and lets not talk about the wide access to phosphex...). Are salamanders just the poor-man's death guard?

 

Am I missing something in my analysis? 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Tlob

[Memento Of Prospero]

Salamanders have a better RoW (Covenant), and access to mastercrafted weapons.

 

Chem weapons aren't all that better, gets hot nulifies the shot when triggered. Salamanders get to replace HBs with HFs also, unlocking a pretty nasty jetbike combo.

 

Death guard don't have access to more phosphex. They can get rad grenades under their RoW.

 

Firedrakes are hotter than Deathshroud. Pyroclasts are more useful than Grave wardens.

[Carlson793]

Death guard don't have access to more phosphex. They can get rad grenades under their RoW.

Unless taken outside a Primary Detachment, Salamanders 'Disdain of the Dark Age' rule prevents them from taking phosphex weapons. Since Death Guard do not have this restriction, then yes, they do have access to more phosphex.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

The limitation is one of the biggest drawbacks of any Legion.

 

At least other Legions can do everything but specialising in a few things. Salamanders only do shooting and specialise in even shorter range shooting.

 

Except Firedrakes cos...reasons.

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

 

Death guard don't have access to more phosphex. They can get rad grenades under their RoW.

Unless taken outside a Primary Detachment, Salamanders 'Disdain of the Dark Age' rule prevents them from taking phosphex weapons. Since Death Guard do not have this restriction, then yes, they do have access to more phosphex.

Right, forgot to look at it from that optic ;)

[Nightmare84]

Salamanders have a better RoW (Covenant), and access to mastercrafted weapons.

 

Chem weapons aren't all that better, gets hot nulifies the shot when triggered. Salamanders get to replace HBs with HFs also, unlocking a pretty nasty jetbike combo.

 

Death guard don't have access to more phosphex. They can get rad grenades under their RoW.

 

Firedrakes are hotter than Deathshroud. Pyroclasts are more useful than Grave wardens.

 

i disagree, 

the reaping is probably the best RoW for any legion

Grave wardens are better than pyroclasts. being able to overwatch in cata armor and the sheer amount of templates they can spew out is ridiculous.

deathshroud are equally as great, they can be taken in smaller units for hq slot so no need for a spartan. also no penalty to sweeping plus off top of my head they are cheaper than firedrakes by a fair margin

[caladancid]

 

Salamanders have a better RoW (Covenant), and access to mastercrafted weapons.

 

Chem weapons aren't all that better, gets hot nulifies the shot when triggered. Salamanders get to replace HBs with HFs also, unlocking a pretty nasty jetbike combo.

 

Death guard don't have access to more phosphex. They can get rad grenades under their RoW.

 

Firedrakes are hotter than Deathshroud. Pyroclasts are more useful than Grave wardens.

 

i disagree, 

the reaping is probably the best RoW for any legion

Grave wardens are better than pyroclasts. being able to overwatch in cata armor and the sheer amount of templates they can spew out is ridiculous.

deathshroud are equally as great, they can be taken in smaller units for hq slot so no need for a spartan. also no penalty to sweeping plus off top of my head they are cheaper than firedrakes by a fair margin

 

 

Yeah grave wardens are just better than pyroclasts, though I do think Firedrakes should be taken early and often.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Wardens have silly short range,take forever to resolve and are less flexible than a legion terminator squad. They are great at killing things bolters can kill with those shots. They dont solve the huge problem for DG right now... busting armour. Granted they have a good defensive tech, but for a highly contested heavy slot... meh. They also compete with Death Shroud. They would be a great asset to another legion.

 

You will always see pyroclasts in CoF lists. You might see wardens in reaping.

 

The reaping has nearly no benefits in small range games. It's not remotely close to the best RoW. The drawbacks are cringeworthy at times for how little you can get.

 

Covenant of Fire has scaling benefits (vehicule invul and MC weapons).

 

I am not saying Salamanders are better, but they are not worse off than the Death Guard.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Wolf_Pack

[Charlo]

The legions are sort of comparible in similarities, but overall different beasts.

 

Salamanders have a lot going for them, they just require a little more finesse to use.

 

Orbital Assault is a great RoW for them.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Ho ho ho I may have a game against Nids next week.

 

So I have decided to bring Salamanders because lol flamers.

 

I am thinking:

 

Autocannon Mortis can nuke Warriors

 

Fire Raptor with reapers to target bugger gribblies, avenger cannon for lessers.

 

Predators....flamestorm maybe?

 

Paragon blade on the Praetor for maximum Instant Death

 

Pyroclasts in achilles alphas with volkite sponsons too :D

 

Incemdiary quad mortars for gaunts

 

Any other suggestions? I could go full evil and take n SA allied with veletarii and an infernus too ;p

 

He does have a hive crone, the thing with haywire missiles, so I thought about taking my Xiphon to see if I can blap it from the skies?

Edited December 2, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Memento Of Prospero]

Deredeo should make mince meat with it.

 

A leviathan with snippy is murder against Tyranid MCs.

[Charlo]

A Leviathan almost feels unfair against Nids :P

[Black Cohort]

Marksman vets with heavy flamers seem like something nids wouldn't like.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I'm thinking...

 

Stabby Praetor - with a Nanyte Blaster - PoTL

 

1x 10 Vet tacs - 2x HF, artificer officer

1x 9 Vet tacs - 1x HF or ML, depending on my bitz box, artificer officer 

 

3x Shatter & Incendiary Mortars

1x Autocannon Mortis

2x Cortus-Temptors - one with dual fists, one with HB, both with 2x HFs 

 

Xiphon - all upgrades

 

Achilles Alpha - Maximum volkites, incendiary shells

 

Caestus - Missile Launchers - filled with Veterans & Stabby Praetor

 

Fire Raptor

 

Once I've cleared the skies the Raptor & Xiphon should do well in clearing the horde (Xiphon's got a nigh guaranteed 2 lascannon hits, 3 S8 AP3 missiles for T6 beasties, Raptor has volume of fire for anything else) 

 

Thoughts? It's quite...eclectic. I would hold the line with the initial tacticl squad, defending the mortars and being screened by the dreadnoughts. 

[helterskelter]

10 man culverin vs niddlywinks. All the shots

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Tragically my Culverin squad is with my Eaters.

 

Would be fun drowning Carnifex in S6 hits ... without it even retaliating...then instant deathing hordes of gaunts...

[Master Ciaphas]

So - thinking of Salamanders, I currently have two 10-man tactical squads (in mkIV armour) with a sergeant carrying combi-melta & powerfist, and one marine carrying the vexillia. Once I get my grubby hands on the Burning of Prospero (or perhaps the Betrayal at Calth) I will be wanting to add something else - like for example a Veteran Squad, Tactical Support Squad or a Devastator Squad.

 

Seeing as this IS the Heresy Era, I would like to add some weapons which are unique to the Heresy - or combinations which are not seen in W40k. This could for example be Volkite weaponry.

 

Alas, my funds are not endless, as I will be buying a Spartan, an Armoured Proteus Land Raider, a Sicaran Battle Tank and two Rapier Quad Mortars to bulk up my existing force, in order to bring it to 2600 pts.

 

What are your suggests for kitting out the abovementioned three squad types, to serve Vulkan and Nocturne best in the fight against the traitor Horus and his minions?

 

Regards,

Master Ciaphas

[Charlo]

Veteran Squad: Park them in a Rhino and give them the Marksmen ability: Sniper & Outflank. Load up on Heavy Flamers and Combi-Flamers that rend!

 

Tactical Support/ Heavy Support Squad: All Volkite all the time. Either Chargers (short ranged, assault 2) or Calivers (long range, heavy 2) for Tactial support, or the mighty Culverin for Heavy (Long range, Heavy 4)

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Would I be foolish to take two heavy flamers and 5 combimeltas in a Veteran squad? Either the sniper or machine killer rule?

 

The flexibility in what they can down seems decent but I know the whole weapon mix n match thing can dilute performance.

[LtDan]

Personally would either take flamers or meltas. I don't like mixing. But that's just me. Heavy flamer vets with marksmen are dirty. I run 4 between two vet squads

[Charlo]

Specialise. Vets are quite expensive and you may as well make them good at one rather than half arsed at each.

[Master Ciaphas]

@Charlo: Thank you for your comments. I am quit taken with the Volkite Culverin, and I can easily see me getting a squad of those. I guess that one should get 10 Marines in the Heavy Support squad? As 10 Volkite Culverins with a Master of Signal would be brutal...?

 

As for the Veterans, then yes, I will have to get me some heavy flamers and combi-flamers. I think that once mkIII comes in plastic, that I will binge out.

 

So, for my next Forge World order, I will be getting a pack of Volkite Culverins, Heavy Flamers and Combi-weapons...as well as the Spartan, Sicaran and Proteus Land Raider.

 

How would you all go about kitting out the Contemptor-Dreadnought? I have a Salamander Dreadnought from the Support Cadre set, with a Multi-Melta and Close Combat Weapon, but I will be getting another in the future as well - optimal equipment suggestions?

 

Regards,

Master Ciaphas

[LtDan]

Mkiii is already in plastic.

 

As for the dread multi melta and claw/chainfist with a heavy flamer is prob fluffiest. Dual khernes assault cannons is my favourite tho.

[GreyOwl]

Hey fellas,

 

First of all, this is my first ever post on a Warhammer forum of any kind.  I've lurked quite a bit here and am now eager to start my 2nd Heresy army (I have a large WE army).  I want to play Salamanders because I love their background and color scheme.  I also love dreadnoughts and you will see that reflected in this army list.

 

I'd love to get some feedback on this list before I make any FW orders.  My first priority is rule of cool and that this list is fun to play and fun to play against.  I don't really care about winning, but want to make sure the army isn't too unbalanced and won't get crushed/crush my enemies too badly.  My meta is not terribly competitive, but there is still some nastiness abound.

Without boring you fine gentlemen any further, here is the list I am considering - comments and criticism greatly appreciated!

 

 

3000 points - Covenant of Fire RoW

+ HQ (230pts) +

········Legion Praetor (230pts) [Artificer Armour, Dragonscale Storm Shield, Iron Halo, Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Flamer, Mantle of the Elder Drake, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Thunder Hammer]

+ Elites (670pts) +

········Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon (290pts)
············Cortus Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Multi-Melta]
············Cortus Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Multi-Melta]

········Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon (270pts)
············Cortus Dreadnought [Multi-Melta]
············Cortus Dreadnought [Multi-Melta]

········Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (110pts)
············Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Laser Destroyer Array]
············Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Laser Destroyer Array]

+ Troops (340pts) +

········Legion Tactical Squad (170pts) Rhino, Sgt w/ Artificer
········Legion Tactical Squad (170pts) Rhino, Sgt w/ Artificer

+ Heavy Support (1150pts) +

········Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (205pts) [Armoured Ceramite]

········Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (955pts)
············Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, 2x Cyclonic Melta Lance]
············Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Cyclonic Melta Lance]
············Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Cyclonic Melta Lance, Leviathan Siege Drill]


+ Lords of War (600pts) +

········Legion Falchion Super-heavy Tank Destroyer (600pts) neutron pulse, ceramite, legion crew

 

 

All of the Cortus and Leviathan Dreads will be built for loadout swaps, I anticipate running the Cortus with dual fist/chainfist quite a bit because rule of cool.  And I am totally in love with the idea of Leviathans dual-wielding Melta Lances, so I'll probably have 6 of those just to try running all 3 of them like that at least once.

 

 

Share with me your wisdom, sons of Vulkan!