[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[Tiger9gamer]

Alright, I will sometime soon. I don't know how it would do in an actual game though.

 

 

another question, can RoW's be taken outside of an Age Of Darkness foc?

[Slips]

I think they can.

 

Bunch of people here have gotten permission from their TO/Shop owners to permit their usage alongside that of a 30k list but natively? I don't actually know..For some reason I'm thinking no.

[Nusquam]

They can. RoWs were designed around the AoD FOC but it's not the only one you can use with a RoW. The 3 additional optional ones(leviathan, onslaught, and castellan) from the red book can't have a RoW because they specifically disallow it.

[defl0]

What lords of war do you guys like for Raven Guard and why?

[Komrk]

 

In my experience First Blood often becomes the deciding factor in games and Rhinos are just too easy to kill for First Blood

 

 

Yeah, but with decapitating strike and Maun you are at 80% chance to go first. If your not getting first blood almost every game, ur doing something wrong :p

Fair enough. I almost never run Maun and still usually end up going first so it's not actually a problem.

[Komrk]

What lords of war do you guys like for Raven Guard and why?

Personally I like the Fellblade. Sure it's a super heavy tank so it's not exactly sneaky but it's super versatile. Especially since it also has a hull mounted Demolisher cannon on top of the main weapon

[Tiger9gamer]

For lords of war the typhon could be awesome theoretically. that ignores cover weapon can bring the pain on most armies.

 

Other than that, maybe a squadron of Avengers in the sub-orbital wing?

[Nusquam]

What lords of war do you guys like for Raven Guard and why?

 

Our Primarch, obviously, ha. He can go out on his own so you don't have to put points into an escort.

 

Typhon comes to mind. It greatly augments our already great marine-killing prowess. It can also take out vehicle squadrons too. Then again it helps anyone. The thing is a beast. You can take two with ceramite at 3k.

 

Glaive will help with our AT and AP needs. More expensive, but can tackle a lot more and not suffer from having the coverage. It will fit neatly in a 2.5k list, but without ceramite. Plus the model is gorgeous.

 

Fellblades are also plain good. More coverage at the cost of being effective at taking on any one target unlike the Glaive. But it's still good and cheaper.

 

For big games I would go wit a Thunderhawk. The rules are off when it comes to transport. It's clearly designed to, and has in the past iirc, transport multiple units but I can''t find a current rule to support it. But assuming it does work you can put in Dark Furies, Corax, and a Contemptor to paint the town red with. Or load it up with Mor Deythan and Alpha half an army. Don't skimp on the upgrades, give that bad boy a turbo laser and flare shield. Delicious.

 

The Falchion is good. Designed for titan hunting. It's the AT version of the Typhon in game terms. I personally lean towards the Glaive instead because it's effective and can cover more targets, the ignores cover is key here. Though with the XIX, we're already great at killing living things so some dedication to AT from a Falchion would offer good synergy.

 

I'm not a fan of the Stormblade. The Typhon is better in my opinion, and cheaper.

 

The Cerberus just isn't as good as it should be. Competes with the Typhon for the cheaper LoW. Not a fan of the Maclador either, especially when SA can just take them as Heavy Support.

 

Personally I would have to go with, in order: Corax, Typhon, Fellbalde for games around 2.5k then Glaive at 2.5-3k followed by either two Typhons or a Thunderhawk at 3k+.

 

Oh, the sub orbital wing could be good for games 2-2.5k if you're crammed for Fast Attack slots or something. Fill the sky with gunships.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Nusquam

[Hesh Kadesh]

The Avengers are fantastic. A Fire Raptor followed by 3 Avengers could be perhaps the Fantastic Four. Maybe a few "agents" in the form of Javelins or Darkwings/Stormravens and you've got your very own Superhero strike wing, hehe. Bonus points for fitting in "NickDarkfury" squads and "Shield"breacher Agents. 

 

But yes, the AP3 firepower that 3 Avengers and a Fire Raptor could bring to the table as well as being a pain for any none-dual Deredeo list to counter; and as a Deep Strikers access to melta special weapon squads (S8 AP1 against AV12 still works, Armoured Ceramite or no) and infiltrating Graviton Guns you can end those threats first turn.

 

Combining Mor Deythan assassin strikes against enemy elite units.

 

I'm thinking of a thematic list, based around a complete Sniper army, using Air Power to bring in the rest of the killing;

 

What do people think over;

 

Maun, and a few Masters of Signal, joining some Darkwing Sniper Squads, with some meltabomb equipped Assault Squads jumping down supported by Darkwings, Fire Raptors, and Xiphons (upon release; probably placeholder with my vendetta's, and rules wise as Lightning Primaris with Autocannons. 

 

Nusquam; I find that the Glaive is actually the better dedicated Super Heavy killer; the D3+1 AP2 Haywire hits+S8 AP2 autohit make it better against titans; that can be up to 5 Hull points, maybe another 4 from the Quad Lascannons. The Falchion however, deals reliable D3 hull points of damage; which makes it better at taking care of things like Flare Shielded Land Raiders which otherwise would only take a single hit.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[Tiger9gamer]

Hmm.... any luck with recent games?

[Nusquam]

I had a rematch against that WE player; Emperors Will, Vanguard. His plasma support squads hiding in ruins were great deterrents against assaulting his base. Fortunately he came to me. Most of the game was shuffling around my Dark Furies to deter his AMs. Trying to get him to commit so I could get the charge. It was tense. I managed to take out his Spartan by turn two thanks to a double grav legion dread with chain-fist in a pod. It was mostly maneuvering around until my Contemptor podded in in front of his two AMs and jump CS. He took the bait and I charged my Dark Furies and my Mor Deythan descended from their Darkwing. It was a slaughter.

 

Had I had any type of artillery it would have been decided much sooner. A single battery of quad mortar rapiers or a single Thanatar would have wrecked house. I need to invest in one or the other.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Nusquam

[Tiger9gamer]

it seems with the shatter shells the quads are awesome now. Blast them all to hell and let the carrion birds sort them all.

 

 how much does the dread cost for that set up?

[Nusquam]

Less than the Spartan haha. About 205. It dropped down, took off two HPs, pod got destroyed by plasma support and the spartan took off an arm. Then shot again for 1 more HP then charged and exploded it.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Nusquam

[defl0]

Hmm.... any luck with recent games?

 

I went 3-0 in the Adepticon horus heresy tournament! My last game was a major victory, but other than that, I won full primary and secondary points in every mission. 

[Tiger9gamer]

 

Hmm.... any luck with recent games?

 

I went 3-0 in the Adepticon horus heresy tournament! My last game was a major victory, but other than that, I won full primary and secondary points in every mission. 

 

Ooooooo give us the deets on your list! =D 

 

@ nus: that dread, he survived the turn he was down? how?

[defl0]

So forgeworld didn't get me my fire raptor and grav rapiers in time... so I had to scramble. I'll put together some short battle reports. (Is there a section for that in these forums?). Anyway, I had some termies lying around and a cestus ram i've been meaning to paint forever so the list kinda materialized out of necessity.

 

Raven Guard 1850. Decapitating strike:

 

My list: Raven Guard 1850
- Alvarex Maun w. cameololine cloak
- Chaplain w. power axe, artificer armor, refractor field and melta bombs
- 20 Tac marines w. extra ccws, sgt w. power sword, artificer armor, and melta bombs
- 10 tac marines w. rhino w. combi melta
- 5 mor deythan w. 5 combi flamer in a rhino
- 5 mor deythan w. 5 combi flamer in a rhino
- 10 terminators w. 5 power axes, 2 combi meltas and 5 lightning claws and a grenade harness
- cestus ram

 

Basically aim the mor deythan at the best infantry targets available. The 10 tacs in the rhino often played rear guard. The 20 tacs with chaplain and maun went near the biggest threats. The idea was that they were an anvil / bait unit to tie up the enemy. The cestus would drop in off of alvarex and deliver the termies. It worked really well, but I don't think the cestus is really that good. Especially used in this capacity. I also didn't love the load out for the termies. I would take more combi weapons and tank hunting in the future, or just just dark fury. 

 

The mor deythan in rhinos are awesome, except when you get siezed on... Then you have to kinda force them into bad situation to make them work. That said, stealth was a huge boon across the army. 

 

The true MVPs were the 20 man tacs with the chaplain. I kinda fielded them because i just happened to have 30 tacs painted, but man what a pleasant surprise! I had a sneaky feeling they would be really good, but in three games they mulched 2 tac squads, a dev squad, 2 rhinos, almost a whole a sicarian, a scorpius, 2 castellax, most of a 20 man breacher squad, a forgelord, a medic, and tied up a contemptor dread. 

 

Oh, and maun is the bomb. 

[Nusquam]

He stayed in the pod ha.

 

Congrats defl0! And yes there's a bat rep section.

[defl0]

Cool. Added. It's also here. I'm starting up a blog to track my Raven Guard and to publish a tactica. It's REALLY rough so far, but to be improved :)

 

http://www.petehappens.com/

[Tiger9gamer]

nice job! only critique is maybe adding a turn layout so we can know what happend which turn.

 

 

Damn the skitarii for distracting me from the legions!

Edited March 25, 2015 by Tiger9gamer

[Sircyn]

Great reports Defl0!

 

The iron warriors lists really reflect my current meta where people castle up and have limited mobility, so I was glad to see the ravens pick apart these armies with the advantage of positioning giving you the best match ups and local concentration of force.

 

You've made me reconsider 20 man blobs, as I'd previously wanted to try msu tactical as scoring units and let the rest of my army fight, but the big blob seems to be even better when its infiltrating and stealthed!

Edited March 25, 2015 by Sircyn

[defl0]

Yeah. It's funny, at first i was bummed to play two armies of the same legion, and a legion i thought would really give me problems. But in the end it was interesting to see how different iron warriors could be played. The first list was more about bodies with force multipliers from an aegis defense line, a tactic that is probably really strong against most legions. It's especially powerful in games under 2000 pts, where you don't really have much in the way of ignore cover. The second was more msu / high threat over load. 2 havoc squads, with a sicarian, a scorpius and 2 contemptors is freighting to see across the table. 

 

I think the second list is better and more dynamic. I also think his tactics were a little off. If i were playing and infiltrating / scouting force I would have bubble wrapped my better squads with tac marines. I would also sacrifice units to buy more turns for high impact units like the Scorpius. They also both chose to stand and shoot and just take charges as opposed to run away. Finally, both of my opponents chose to deploy on their deployment zone line, while I think there is something to be gained by hugging the back board edges. 

 

So far with Raven Guard, what I have found is that you can alpha strike to pin someone in their own deployment zone and then reserves can let you be flexible to bolster you battle line. This works really well if you can crack transports.

 

As for the 20 man unit, I really think the extra hth weapons are worth it. Especially with the chaplain with stealth. The ccws are a cheap force multiplier and then the chaplain multiplies that with his re rolls.  The whole package is like 600 points, but it dishes out anti infantry shooting and anti tank with krack grenades and melta bombs. Plus with fleet you usually get the charge and the stealth generally gives you a 3+ cover save, which is a big deal since you pay a huge premium for ap3 and lower in 30k. 

 

The biggest beauty of it, is that you had to spend 195 on a tac squad anyway, and I pretty much always take a second character. So for the cost of buying the second group of 10 marines (which is about as efficient as you can get) you end up with a REALLY good unit. 

 

So 600 pts sounds expensive, but really you are maximizing what would have been mostly dead weight points in your list. 

[defl0]

 

You've made me reconsider 20 man blobs, as I'd previously wanted to try msu tactical as scoring units and let the rest of my army fight, but the big blob seems to be even better when its infiltrating and stealthed!

 

I've also noodled the msu concept with RG. Honestly, it's better done by alpha legion becuase they can infiltrate more types of units. On top of that, there aren't really that many units to take at small price points, right? You are better off doing msu with iron hand and doing dread spam. Also most of the strong msu's are hvy support... 

 

I'm think of a 2300 point iron hands list that does 9 dreads, 3 sicarians, 2 tac squads in rhinos and a hq. We can't really do anything like that. Our MSU starts looking like 2 tacs with rhinos, an hq, 3 X 1 bike type unit, 4 X 1 artillery units, 1 hvy? 

 

That said, it should be mentioned we get a lot of infiltrating units that can take rhinos. So i find i usually out number my opponent anyway. 

 

But in general, msu is not RGs strength. RG's strength on the defensive side is resilience with stealth. On the attack side you are basically getting the charge more often and furious charge. 

 

But basically OUR TRUE STRENGTH IS POINT EFFICIENCY. Stealth means you are basically getting a free marine for ever 6 marines you buy and infiltrate mean you don't have to pay the range premium on most low ap weapons and weapons like bolters double their output. Going first mean you start with more points on the table then your opponent, because you kill things that can't shoot you back. Plus dark fury and mor deythan squads are deals, so is maun. 

 

If you think along the terms of destroying (or marginalizing) point heavy units first turn and how to maximize the point efficiency of every unit along those lines, you will be on the right path. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Outriders and Terminators are really the only units which do well with Infiltrate, and I honestly get more use out of Orbital Assault and Tank Hunter as an AL player. The ability to combine Infiltrate with Deep Strike as effectively as Raven Guard however is preferential IMHO.

[blackoption]

Outriders and Terminators are really the only units which do well with Infiltrate, and I honestly get more use out of Orbital Assault and Tank Hunter as an AL player. The ability to combine Infiltrate with Deep Strike as effectively as Raven Guard however is preferential IMHO.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Terminators and bikes do not get infiltrate.  Or is there a way to give them infiltrate that I am missing?

[defl0]

Nope. Neither do. Not sure if a vigilator infiltrates them Anymore after the 7th ed faq.

 

In general, termies are kinda hard to use with RG. You end up on a world of spartans or take the risk of fliers. Drop pods might be the best option but they aren't cheap.

 

I kinda look to jet bikes as RG TEQ