[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[infyrana]

So I'd like to see what options I have for creating a small Raven Guard allies list to scrounge from my collection of beakies.  Sadly I'm not familiar with the 30k RG rules and units, and not so hot on the infiltrate side of things (not being much of a gamer) - but I'd like to see what I can do at migrating more of my 40k models over to 30k :)

 

I would therefore like to create a small land based force, anywhere in the region of 1000 points, a little bit of infiltrate with some support.  I have a lot of PA armoured marines and a host of special weaponry, so was thinking to use PotL list along with a unit of Mor Deythan.  I have some rhinos and dreads unaccounted for, but wasn't sure what else I could use for a bit of punch (rapiers/venator/scorpius/etc).

 

Any thoughts or input to help me get a list started would be appreciated please!

[defl0]

After thinking abut it for a bit, breachers are an interesting alternative to rapier platforms. 10 man tac + 3 graviton cannons is almost exactly the same points. It's a more aggressive, higher risk alternative to the grav cannons, and they can take melta bombs. 

 

I'm goign to have to try them in a larger game. Plus I kinda love the idea of painting up a squad. 

[GreyCrow]

How do you guys feel about mixed elements between Infiltrating specialists (Seekers/Mor Deythan/Rapiers) and Drop Pod (Tactical + Support squads + Deathstorms) & Jump Pack (Dark Furies support coming in from later ? Basically an infiltrated Alpha Strike followed up by reinforcements arriving from orbit ?

 

Or do you feel the opposite would be better ? With Mor Deythan/Seekers arriving from Drop Pods + Jump Packs in Deep Strike, and Infiltrated Tactical and Support Squads. With basically the opening strike coming in from Pods with the infiltrated elements controlling ground and going up the board later on.

 

All of this assuming the Rite of War, obviously.

[Nusquam]

My go to list has infiltrated tacticals to help control the battlefield with Seekers/Dreads in pods followed by Mor Deythan in a Darkwing. Then I add in things like Dark Furies to taste.

[GreyCrow]

My go to list has infiltrated tacticals to help control the battlefield with Seekers/Dreads in pods followed by Mor Deythan in a Darkwing. Then I add in things like Dark Furies to taste.

 

I know we talked about Assault Squads a few pages ago and there wasn't much love for them. How would you use them ? I was thinking that 10 with melta bombs could be very scary for everything, due to furious charge against infantry leading to sweeping advances and even against the toughest armour due to armourbane (to which Spartans or other LOW are not immune).

 

Obviously not as scary as Dark Furies against infantry, but a good threat all around.

Edited May 11, 2015 by GreyCrow

[Nusquam]

I will always choose Furies or Destroyers over Assault Marines. While they end up being more expensive, they're much better. AMs are way too expensive, I predict this will be changed someday, for being Tacticals without FotL and with Jump packs. I can't justify them beyond thematic lists.

 

Loading them up with meltabombs just makes them a bigger target in my eyes. Those points could go towards gravdreads/rapiers or the like.

 

The infantry you're usually charging has FnP, since anything beyond charging a Tac squad will end poorly for AMs. I doubt they would reach things like rapier batteries without being shot by them.

 

They just don't fill a role that that something else can't do better. If they were 50 points cheaper I would take them, keep them cheap, to snag midfield and farflung objectives while my Mor Deytham, Furies, and Seekers push. Even then my Tac marines usually sprint up the field without ever taking a shot beyond the first round. With infiltrate and fleet they are pretty quick, and it saves me a lot of points. If I bring Corax then they're moving 12" on foot anyway. Sure they can't shoot or charge, but my forward units are doing that for them.

[defl0]

The only way i would run assault marines would be in a theme list of all jumpers and using the angel's wrath ROW. 

 

Basically take Maun in a drop pod, and stack your list with command squads, jump destroyers and dark furies.

 

I could see an assault squad unit with melta bombs working in this scenario. 

 

Hit and run is a scary good rule. Sling shotting 20 jump pack melta bombs around the board can make the points worth it against a lot of lists.

[GreyCrow]

Interesting points guys, thanks for the insight ! I'd just feel bad not fielding regular Assault Marines in RG lists. But you make interesting points about either all JP or all infantry. 

 

Out of curiosity, what do you guys usually use as your HQs ? Going for a Praetor early on, or a Centurion (with or without Consul Specialisation) ? I'm thinking about the army force I'd start with, which is going to be the minimum requirement for the Force Org because if I go Heresy I'll take time to have a beautiful force over a large force compared to 40k, but I'd still like to get a few games in ^^ (I'm well aware that going with the minimal force org is going to be very infantry vs infantry battles and not much interesting, but my FLGS hosts big battles where my two squads might bring extra fun to the loyalists :p ).

 

Finally, do you guys think it's worth it to get a Praetor and a Centurion early on, or is it stupid ? Cheers !

[Slips]

For RG? The best HQ is probably Alvarex Maun, imo.

[GreyCrow]

For RG? The best HQ is probably Alvarex Maun, imo.

 

And for people not willing to use named HQ ? :D

[Slips]

Use a counts-as Alvarex :p

 

Seriously though? No generic HQ comes close to what Maun brings in a single package, so I'd be hard-pressed to find an equivalent alternative though here are some options I feel work:

 

Preator: Geared up for Dark Fury duty: aa, halo, Paragon, jp, etc. Give him a void-shield harness if you can for an AV12 shield to protect the unit. Being immune to bolter fire on the way in is a big bonus.

 

Vigilator: for Mor Deythan duty as well as beiglng able to do some damage pre-game.

 

Librarian: for psychic shenanigans. Pretty flexible to suit your needs.

 

Chaplain: pretty self explanatory. With a VSH makes for a cheap preator alternative if you arent using a RoW.

 

Primus Medicae: good for giving specialist units that cant otherwise take an apoth FNP; such as Furies.

 

Forge Lord: Has rad grenades and a bunch of gear baseline in his cost including a servo harness. With RG you wont be repairing stuff with him much but he has his uses.

 

The rest are of debatable use for RG but can be made to work - except maybe for the legion champion. If youre taking one you might as well take a preator since they perform the same job and one does it better than the other.

[Nusquam]

I agree with Slip; Maun is pure platinum for what he does. Zero scatter thallax with accompanying Myrmidax, craft, pods, etc goes a loooooong way. That's only part of what makes him so good. I usually take him and a version of the other HQs mentioned above.

 

I understand if you want to make your own character and story, more power to ya, but outside that Maun is the top man. One thing my group decided to do was take one of the cahracter advances from book 4's campaign system and apply it to a generic character to make our own unique HQ. It's a lot of fun. The guy I made was a Chaplain with the Harrow blade and Headsman trait.

[GreyCrow]

Thanks for the ideas ! It's unequivocal that Maun is a massive force multiplier and his abilities synchronize extremely well with the Decapitating Strike ROW. There is no question about that !

 

What bothers me about him is that he's almost an autoinclude (and for good reason), and also the fact that I tend to prefer homemade characters. Thanks for the points about the Praetor and the Centurions ! I guess what bothers me from a fluff standpoint is that Praetors are supposed to command forces of roughly 1000 Legionnaires and I have trouble seeing to battles of around 2000 points :p (Obviously an argument can be made that we're seeing a zoom of a wider engagement or key battles of epic campaigns).

But like you guys said, as a primary HQ a Centurion does seem a bit lacking, while the Praetor is more the Captain equivalent I guess.

 

Back to the drawing board for me I guess :D

[Tiger9gamer]

That sounds like a cool idea, nus. We at my club have been doing a 40k campaign and using our own warlords for it.

 

 

May i suggest some ideas for centurions in the Delegatus and the Preavian?  both are centurions and both do special things for being a centurion. Preavians are cool for having big stompy robots and Delegatus have the "keys to the legion" which would be great for a themed list. 

 

Other than that Preators with paragon blades look to be fun!

[GreyCrow]

That sounds like a cool idea, nus. We at my club have been doing a 40k campaign and using our own warlords for it.

 

 

May i suggest some ideas for centurions in the Delegatus and the Preavian?  both are centurions and both do special things for being a centurion. Preavians are cool for having big stompy robots and Delegatus have the "keys to the legion" which would be great for a themed list. 

 

Other than that Preators with paragon blades look to be fun!

 

Thanks man, that's food for thought, I was totally unaware of these two new types !

 

For the moment I'll post a test list with Maun as the Praetor because after giving more thoughts to him he's really a bargain bin full of goodies and I guess it's highly flexible to begin with.

I'd love if you guys could comment on that list, so that I can get a feel of whether it's going in the right direction or if I'm being a bit mistaken here ! I'm a virgin to the Heresy universe, and I'd like to get a sense of where I should be going before investing time and money into it :)

[defl0]

Agree with what everyone else has said. 

 

It's hard not to take Alvarex Maun once you start getting used to using him. 

 

The one consul that has been kinda left out, which I think is useful is the Siege breaker. 

 

Oh! and don't forget and about NEX! Raven's revenge is really powerful in non maelstrom missions, because you can usually go first and get first blood and the raven's revenge KPs turn one. 

[Sircyn]

The Damocles rhino will pop up in some Raven Guard lists methinks!

 

Reserve manipulation that synergizes with maun, massive no deep strike scatter bubble and a powerful barrage every turn in a cheap (if fragile) package make it a really useful option for us.

 

If you don't want to use maun at all, the Damocles gives you that as an option, in larger games I really want to try both to stack their abilities. Drop pod or flyer armies all showing up on turn two on a 3+ with re-roll is sweet.

[Tiger9gamer]

Finally I got the books! yes! and now I have an HH game versus a word bearer(?) opponent this friday, so I want tactical advice on the list i'm bringing. it wll be mostly 40k marines and stuff, but I think I have a good chance

 

 

Here is the list I built using what models I have.

 

________

 

ROW: Pride of the Legion

 

Legion Preator: Arti-Armor, Paragon blade, Iron Halo, Camoline

Legion Centurion Librarian: LvL2 powers

Nex

 

Legion Tactical Squad: 14 marines with extra close combat weapons , Vexilla, Sergeant with Artificer armor and heavy chainsword

 

Legion Terminator Squad: x4 terimators, Power Fist, Reaper Autocannon

 

Legion Veteran Sniper Squad: x9 marines, Vexilla, x2 heavy bolters, Sergeant with artificer armor and power weapon

 

Legion Veteran Fearless Squad: x5 marines, Missile launcher, Sergeant with artificer armor

 

Legion Rapior Squad: Thudd Gun

 

Legion Javelin Squadron: x2 speeders

 

Predator Executioner

 

Whirlwind Scorpius

 

__________

 

What do you think?

[Nusquam]

Probably should go in the 30k List forum.

 

First thing I would say give the Tac sarge a power axe over the chainsword.

 

What are the termis going to be doing? Five on foot won't get very far very fast. If you have more models to buff up your current squads I would recommend doing so before taking these termis. Especially if you can give an Apoth to the Tac squad.

[Tiger9gamer]

I was going to but I wanted to talk about the tactics a bit more. my bad >.<

 

the Termies I plan to hold a back field objective and attack anything that gets close to one. They cost the same as the fearless squad and are a bit tougher to take down. Plus they will guard against the opponent gaining the pride of the legion VP if they die. 

[Monkeychunks]

Hi guys, potential new Raven Guard starter here.

Obviously the Moritat has seen multiple, brutal nerfs since his introduction, some of which were entirely justified. In an attempt to re-break him however:

 

Play Raven Guard, using the Decapitation Strike Rite of War. Everyone gets Preferred Enemy: Characters.

Purchase a Destroyer Squad, attach a Moritat to the unit.

Since the squad includes a model with PE, the Moritat now rerolls 1's to hit and to wound.

 

It still breaks with Plasma Pistols but under Volkite Serpentas, becomes an unstoppable shooting storm of 1-roundy death to every unit he targets.

Have I missed something here that would make it non-functional?

[Slips]

The way Lone Killer was FAQd makes it understood (at least from how i read it) that he cant benefit from any bonuses that arent legion astartes, wargear and his own innate rules.

 

That means no preferred enemy from destroyers.

[Tiger9gamer]

Has any one tried Nex instead? I would lke to run him in one of my next games but unfortunately my opponent chickened out 

[defl0]

Nex can be really good in certain situations. In non maelstrohm, and age of darkness missions, the +1 kill point can be really strong. Espcially if you build your list to go first and get first blood. 

 

Nex and a drop podding unit of 10 plasma seekers tends to evaporate most any unit. So you start off +2 KPs which can be absolutley game breaking at times. 

 

If yu play more towards maelstrohm missions and 7th ed scoring, he's still good, but not as amazing. 

[GreyCrow]

Hey guys ! I'm here with some more tactical questions regarding the Raven Guard specific units

 

So, I've finally settled down on going with Pride of the Legion as a main Rite of War. Still not settled on the Legion, but the Raven Guard has a special place in my heart I know that Pride of the Legion might not be the most appropriate ROW for Raven Guard but I'm curious nonetheless

 

My tactical interrogations mainly touch on the Mor Deythan once again, mainly 3 questions :

 

1) Is it really worth it to put anti-tank (combi-meltas) on the Mor Deythan ? I don't feel they have enough firepower to fully justify the use of anti-tank weapons on them, compared with other options.

 

2) I've read that a few peeps have tried Sniper Deythans. How interesting are they ? My main worry is that because they aren't scoring, is there really a point making them long range ? I was thinking about a 5 men unit with 4 Sniper rifles and 1 Missile Launcher (With Krak firing normally and Frag when using the Fatal Strike).

 

3) Regarding closer ranged Deythans, combi-flamers seem like the option with the most potential. Has anyone tried throwing a Volkite Charger for good measure ? It seems interesting for when you need that extra Fatal Strike but you're 12" of the enemy and the flamers won't hit. Also, being an Assault Weapon, you could get the charge when firing the flamers.

Edited May 26, 2015 by GreyCrow