[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[Charlo]

The death from the skies rules are 40k only, really.

[Kulon Tar]

So basically it (veteran squads) boils down to the following options then, no?

 

Pride of the Legion & Chosen Duty

 

Standard (Rhino) Veterans

Elite Scout Rhino Mor Deythan

 

Pro: No troops tax

Con: No deployment benefit apart from infiltration

 

 

Decapitation Strike

 

Elite Scout Rhino Mor Deythan

Elite Drop Pod Veterans

 

Pro: Drop pod mor deythan lite

Con: Troops tax, elite slot even more crowded

 

 

Recon Company

 

Neither drop pods nor better slots thus no benefit.

 

 

---

 

In conclusion i think we are in a good spot here. Especially in Decap we get another great option to deliver rending shots.

Chosen Duty is a proper option with great basic troops now.

In Recon i see Mor Deythan stronger though.

 

[Terminus]

Not sure if recon company is worth it even with cheaper scouts, but you do get scout and infiltrate and a very nice cover save on a large chunk of forces. If utilizing podded dreadnoughts and/or dreadclaws, you can give them nuncio voxes for accurate strikes. Plus any infantry you bring will benefit from the save bonuses too.

[defl0]

Recon is tricky to run well, but it can be really strong. It can also be very HTH orientated, which is refreshing. 

 

It has a built in 50 pt tax (3 X100 vs 2 X 125), but at least you pick up an extra scoring unit and I've found the recons are deceptively good with melta bombs. 

 

Honestly though, it's a wash. Shrouding across your army should save you 50 pts. 

 

And... You can run an alpha strike list that goes first, as often as the decap strike + Maun combo. So instead of Maun you get to take a character that can contribute more individually. I think it's actually the ROW you should be running with Corax and it's solid with a praetor or delegatus. 

 

It's also a great list to put a super heavy in!

[pompeyladbfp]

new update has made me rethink a few things:

•  I have decided that seekers will be my new snipers... for 255 points I can get a 10 man unit that can infiltrate somewhere out of the way or up a nice big tower and just drop 10 bs5 str5 shredap2 shots a turn into whatever I like. compare that to a recon sniper unit at 225 points. I'd use mk6 guys with the spare sniper rifles left over from my MD squads, but probably cut the barrels off and keep the silencers.
• my drop pod dreads may now become contemptor-cortus on foot and just use fleet to run at the enemy!
• MD squads still have their place and my 6/9 man squad with 2/3 plasmaguns and 4/7 combi flamers will still kill most nasty units out there.
• assault squads are worth a punt, run it cheap with 3 poweraxes and AA I think, maybe a 20 man unit with chaplain could be very good :)
• javelins could by my new light armour killers, very cheap for what they do
• vet tacticals x 10 with 10 combi plas and a few power axes just seem a true can kill everything, combined with drop pod in our legions ROW and you have a great all round unit, even on foot with infiltrate combined with the new vet skills makes this a true stand out unit.

 

 

 

•  

[defl0]

So worth the new hellstrike missile Stat line, do you think it's worth the 20 points to upgrade to them?

[Charlo]

So worth the new hellstrike missile Stat line, do you think it's worth the 20 points to upgrade to them?

 

100%, seeing as you can fire all four and it only counts as firing "one weapon" too.

[Gyem]

So worth the new hellstrike missile Stat line, do you think it's worth the 20 points to upgrade to them?

What did I miss? When did it change?

[defl0]

They basically lost ordinance and gained sunder. As of New legion codex.

[SkimaskMohawk]

and ap 2

[Gyem]

They basically lost ordinance and gained sunder. As of New legion codex.

I had it on my shelf and totally missed it. Thanks, it looks really strong on FireRaptors

 

 

 

100%, seeing as you can fire all four and it only counts as firing "one weapon" too.

 

It seems I missed that too, how is it possible?

[Caillum]

A Flyer can fire 4 weapons at full BS. Having Machine Spirit allows it to fire 1 more, at any target. The Fire Raptor has the Independent Turret Fire special rule, which allows it to fire each turret weapon at a different target, not counting towards the 4(5) weapons.

 

Basically, you can fire the Avenger bolt cannon with the Machine Spirit, fire the turrets at whatever you want, and fire as many of the 4 missiles as you like at 1 armoured target. All 4 if you want to hurt something like a Super-heavy!

Edited August 20, 2016 by Caillum

[Flint13]

^It also allows you to effectively engage up to four separate flyers as soon as you enter from reserves.

 

Super heavies will probably bounce most of a fire raptor's weapon load out, but you can totally cause issues for a bunch of AV11 2hp flyers.

[IronDrake28]

I thought there was a hard limit of only 2 missiles a turn in the BRB?

[Charlo]

Ah I was also going off a ruling in the FAQs (that while aren't fully official yet in some cases, give answers to questions about weapons)

 

And it says that as the missiles all have the same "name" they only count as one weapon when firing because they are one use too (or something...)

 

It's in one of the FAQs but I can't find it. Or maybe it was extrapolated from them. I don't remember 

[Terminus]

I thought there was a hard limit of only 2 missiles a turn in the BRB?

There hasn't been a limit on missiles since 7th edition, which makes the Lightning's missile barrage pointless.

 

In the BRB missiles are just another weapon that happen to be one-time-use.

[defl0]

I'm building out my Raven Guard Legion so I can run the Angel's Wrath ROW. 

 

Wrote up a quick tactics article on the ROW. I'm interested in what you guys think in regards to that ROW. 

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2016/09/raven-guard-30k-row-angels-wrath.html

[Terminus]

I completely disagree with your assessment of Drop Assault Vanguard vs. Angel's Wrath, the former is much more potent. The Stormeagle sucks and no access to dreadnoughts or tanks or anything with real heavy impact means the list is weak.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I mean the two rites have basically the same access to vehicles, you're only taking stuff that can deep strike like dreadnoughts in pods and land speeders. I do agree though that Drop Assault Vanguard is better, since you're getting the same benefit of hit&run for assault marines along with the great first turn deep strike bonus. Sure, it's not hard for vehicles with big templates to stay outside that twelve inch snap shots bubble, but the nice thing is no units can unleash rapid fire on your assault marines turn one. Plus the assault marines stay in reserves and are guaranteed turn one arrival, if your opponent gets first turn that's one less turn of being shot at. 

[Terminus]

Actually no, the Hit&Run sadly isn't as good in Drop Assault Vanguard. You only get it on your second game turn so not when you want to use it. Still better.

[Lord Asvaldir]

For some reason I thought assault marines gained hit&run from the second game turn onward, not just for turn two. Bit of a bummer, but I think I'd still prefer drop assault vanguard.

[defl0]

I completely disagree with your assessment of Drop Assault Vanguard vs. Angel's Wrath, the former is much more potent. The Stormeagle sucks and no access to dreadnoughts or tanks or anything with real heavy impact means the list is weak.

 

I couldn't disagree more.

 

Hit & Run is the best rule in the game. It keeps units alive. It increase damage output of units (especially ours). And it increase mobility. Plus, all jump pack units get hit & run, so it adds to dark fury which might be the best buy unit in the game.

 

Finally, storm eagle definitely don't suck, they are a solid transport for termies with combi weapons but more importantly fire raptors with strafing run are MURDER. Especially with the new missiles. 

 

As for Drop Assault Vanguard, it really doesn't translate to more power on the table. 

 

1. Death from above: Turn 1 deepstrike, really isn't that powerful for assault Squads. Turn 2 assaults is basically what you get when you deploy assault marines. And assault marines aren't bristling with melta guns and or anything useful. Plus, the rules don't apply to other jumpers. 

 

2. Darken the sky is a horribly written rule. It's hugely unclear. I think from a RIA perspective it means, any unit with 12" of an assault squad that just dropped in... but it really could mean any unit with 12". 

 

That said, under the assumption that it's the RIA way, It makes you deploy very aggressively and it only impacts units with 12". So your opponent is just goign to criss cross their lines of fire and can basically just bubble wrap the units they care about, so they can fire at full BS. It would have been very good if all units had to snap fire against them... but as it is, you won't get much mileage out of it against a good opponent. 

 

3. Storm of Angels: So you only get hit and run at the end your 2nd turn. So what does this mean? It means to drop in. Get shot. Charge turn two and bounce directly out of combat and get shot up again. 

 

You don't even get the good part of hit & run where you jump out at the end of your opponent's turn so they can't shoot you... 

 

I want to like this ROW, but it's really just not that good.

[Terminus]

That's exactly why I said the hit and run you get from that Rite is not very good.  However the Angel's Wrath Rite basically only has Hit&Run as a bonus, which is not enough to make assault marines amazing (even if they already have fleet, furious charge and infiltrate) when it comes at the expense of the rest of the list.  No veterans, no terminators, no tanks, no artillery, etc = bad.  And Storm Eagles are indeed piles of crap.  Since they will be hovering to function as a transport, they are basically an AV12 land raider except more expensive. Big pass on that.  Fire Raptors already have strafing run so gain absolutely nothing from the Rite.

 

By the way, the Drop Assault Vanguard is super clear that it's only the Assault Vanguard (which are only the assault marines) who force snap shots.  Night Lords really make this Rite sing (it's as good as Day of Revelations in their hands), but Ravens at least get a re-roll to spread out with a run after a deep strike.  I agree that it's still not a particularly strong choice, but if you were focusing on a assault squad Rite, it's the better option of the two.  The optimal solution is of course just to take Corax.  Even a Vigilator can be useful for Scout and Stealth (and if you're willing to rock the 4+/5++ profile you get Move through Cover as well).

[defl0]

Assault marines are not good at hth in any legion. Even with the point reduction they are still just mediocre. So why take a ROW that forces you to use them in that capacity?

 

The Angel's wrath ROW transforms their role into reliable tank hunters. That's why it's good. 

 

It turns assault marines with melta bombs into scary good tank hunters, especially with a chaplain.

 

We are talking every 2 assault marines cause a PEN against a Spartan good.  

 

Add an apothecary to make them GREAT tar pits which has great synergy with dark fury squads. 

 

Without hit & run, they just get tied up and bogged down, so can't do either of those functions reliably. 

 

I guess we just don't see eye to on the strength of hit & run. 

 

btw - assault marines only get furious assault. 

Edited September 13, 2016 by defl0

[Terminus]

Why? Jump Infantry is Infantry, and unlike terminators they are not excluded from that category of bonuses. RAW they get it all.

 

We play by the FAQ, so one bomb per unit, makes that option a lot less useful.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Terminus