[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[Nusquam]

Wow Moritats got nerf'd again?

Also he has chainfire just like the Moritats, and therefore the cap. He doesn't have a version spelled out in his rules. Even if he did you know that would get changed on the next pass.

 

Well Nex is a lot worse now generally speaking. I mean that game I rolled 70+ hits in one round was bonkers, but still. Though my group ran chainfire as 2d6 hits and no super over heat before this book, so I suppose we can just cap at 12 now and ignore the overheat.

[Gorgoff]

If a unit don't have Infiltrate they cannont join an infiltrating character so no, a infiltrating Techmarine can't take them with him.

[Spinsanity]

This is not a matter of ICs joining units and confering infiltrate though, but of a techmarine with accompanying servitors all forming a unit. Since infiltrate says it works as long as at least one model has the rule, then yes, they definitely can use the techmarine's rule.

[defl0]

 

Also, do you think Apotehecaries can join Rapier platform squads?

Nope. Only infantry

 

 

The crew are infantry, which is why they can infiltrate. 

[Charlo]

Maybe they shouldn't be able to infiltrate then... HMMMMM

[Terminus]

Why not? As long as any member of a unit has the Infiltrate rule, they can infiltrate. So since the infantry members of an artillery unit have Infiltrate, you are good to go.

[Slips]

Its the same deal as a Shattered Legions RG or AL Apothecary giving a Non-AL or RG squad Infiltrate.

[defl0]

Ok these are my thoughts on the new codex. Let me know if got anything wrong or if I missed anything big. 

 

I'm also interested if you have any strong opinions on my analysis. I'm just get models on the table this weekend with the new rules.

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2016/07/horus-heresy-30k-legion-astartes-codex.html

[Nusquam]

So with vets getting access to combi-weapons they can become Mor Deythan-lite if you choose the Marksmen tactic. Plus in a Decap ROW they can take drop pods.

 

• 10 Vets, 10 combi-flamers, Drop pod, Marksmen 295

vs

 

• 10 Mor Deythan, 10 combi-flamers, rhino 340

 

You save 45 points by losing BS5, Stealth, and trading Fatal Strike for Sniper. Then you get access to a pod in Decap as well as access to power weapons for the whole squad instead of a sword on the Shade. With those 45 saved points you can get some power axes, maybe artificer armor, melta bomb... Or just keep the savings.

 

The only advantage MD have over Vets is in void missions where they improve rending by 1 using Fatal. Even the rending combi-plasmas are outclassed because the new AT tactic just adds 1 to pen rolls effectively making them S8 and thus doing 6.67HPs to AV14 the turn they come down. Goodbye spartans (and typhons) turn 1, then you have a second squad with flamers drop next to them and unleash sniper flamers. Whoops messed up the dice tool

 

Mor Deythan just got outclassed. Veterans are probably one of, if no the, best unit not only for RG but in the game.

 

Oh also infiltrating a giant unit of techmarines with rad missile launcher servitors sounds nasty too.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Nusquam

[Charlo]

If by giant unit you mean, 1 Techy and 4 Servitors then yes it does!

 

But they have a range of 48" and aren't the most survivable, so best to use that I think.

 

I agree on Mor'Deythan. With Vets getting combis a lot of legion specifics are now outclassed...

[Nusquam]

Any techmarine can take up to 4 servitors, and you can take up to three techs. It'll get expensive fast, but they can lay on the pain. 559 for 3 TMs, one with rad grenades, and 12 servitors with rad missiles-and I just remembered that phosphex rapiers are a thing and are better and cheaper. I suppose a small unit might not be bad in ZM defense, or hanging back so the tech can repair a fellblade or something.

[Terminus]

Why are people so hot for rad missiles, they are pretty pants when you give up other rocket types to get them. Super niche.

 

As for Mor Deythan, It's not that bad. Against infantry targets Mor Deythan wound 75% of the time rather than 50%. That reroll gets you more rends too, and you have precision shots. If people come around my way of thinking about their specials, they are also a more competent shooting unit afterwards, while Vets are probably better off in melee with power swords. think it's a fair dinstinction between the two units. Yes, it's a shame most Legion uniques in power armour are just cosmetic conversion bits at this point.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Terminus

[Nusquam]

Sniper grants precision shots too. I would compare one-time twinlinked(psuedoshred for flamers) and rending equal(or maybe even generally worse) to having Sniper(psuedorend on 6s, always wounding on a 4+ or better, and keeping precision shots) the whole game. This means the vets can also reliably take on bikers, automata, and the like with their bolters as well. Plus access to a drop pod in Decap is huge by itself. Much more reliable than MD in a rhino that can get seized on or may fail against a castled enemy.

 

Fishing for rends again stone gauntlet breachers may do better than sniper but thats another niche application like void warfare.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Nusquam

[Charlo]

Why are people so hot for rad missiles, they are pretty pants when you give up other rocket types to get them. Super niche.

 

They're a cool part of the 30k game only really avaiable to a few things in small number. Techmarines open them up to be 4 in a unit.

 

AP3, Fleshbane small blasts that have lasting effects against multi-wound models are pretty cool IMO!

[Nusquam]

Veteran Tacs special rule; My thinking is that since the Vets themselves have that special rule only they get things like Sniper. But the Vet tactics rule says the unit/for the squad, and not 'models with this special rule'. Now ICs can't benefit from special rules anymore, but what about the awkward plug and play apothecaries? My initial thought is the Apoth won't get sniper but then infiltrating RG Apothecaries came to mind and now I'm unsure.

[Charlo]

Same as any other special rule

 

For scout and that if one model has it they all do including attached.

 

But all of the others are non-transferrable.

[Gyem]

 

The only advantage MD have over Vets is in void missions where they improve rending by 1 using Fatal. Even the rending combi-plasmas are outclassed because the new AT tactic just adds 1 to pen rolls effectively making them S8 and thus doing 6.67HPs to AV14 the turn they come down. Goodbye spartans (and typhons) turn 1

 

How? 10 combi vets, 20 S8 plasma shoots, 13.3 hits, 2.2 glances. Am I missing something? Did combiplas gained lance (would explain the 6.67hp)?

Edited July 21, 2016 by Gyem

[Nusquam]

Ah you're right. I input it incorrectly in battlescribes fancy dice tool.

[defl0]

So now we have combat roles for all the fliers (no the dark wing). 

 

You guys going to start using the wanky fier rules?

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Death-from-the-Skies.pdf?utm_source=forgeworld.co.uk&utm_campaign=45160bd780-FW_2016_07_22_Barracuda&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a6ef0a01da-45160bd780-118596097

[defl0]

So with vets getting access to combi-weapons they can become Mor Deythan-lite if you choose the Marksmen tactic. Plus in a Decap ROW they can take drop pods.

 

 

I actually think these guys make the delgatus and the pride of legion ROW VERY viable now. Having these guys as core troops is a strong option over something like a tac squad. It's also worth noting that they can do this when they get charged (unike fatal strike), so they are especially good on objectives. 

[Terminus]

The VP hit for Pride is too harsh for me. Delegatus is the way!

[Gyem]

 

I actually think these guys make the delgatus and the pride of legion ROW VERY viable now. Having these guys as core troops is a strong option over something like a tac squad. It's also worth noting that they can do this when they get charged (unike fatal strike), so they are especially good on objectives. 

 

 

Could be fun, average 20 OW flamer hits, 3.3 rending wounds, 6.6 non rending. 2A base + 1A CCW + 1A for counter-attack for 4A each if you use Alvarex Maun.

 

Edit : Just realized I can't have both PotL and Drop Pod vets.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Gyem

[defl0]

Lol. I made the same mistake at first too... stupid game balance :P

 

That said, it's a reasonable dilemma. Both drop vets and core troop vets are very good options.

 

When you really break it down, Vets are only 3 point more than tacs with extra CCWS (assuming FOTL = Vet rules). And for that 3 pts you get an extra attack and tons of shooting and hth options as well as a melta bomb option.

 

It's hard not to see the value.  

[Nusquam]

SO FW did go their own way and created additional roles for flyers. Makes sense. THough that update is for imperial armour.

Also the lightning lost Kraken missiles but I totally called that it's role would change based on loadout at least.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Nusquam

[shandwen]

SO FW did go their own way and created additional roles for flyers. Makes sense. THough that update is for imperial armour.

 

Also the lightning lost Kraken missiles but I totally called that it's role would change based on loadout at least.

The imperial navy lightning never had kraken: only the legion astartes "primaries" lightning had them.