[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[defl0]

Yup. Maun has to be on the table and not in a transport for any of his cool stuff to work. 

 

I find that he sits well in a grav rapier unit, or if I'm beign aggressive he is usually with the chaplain in a 20 man tac squad. 

[Nusquam]

Trope or not It's not difficult to be reasonable among friends. And there's nothing wrong with constructively asking the FW rules writers about their rules.

 

Anyone ever use his auto-reserve rule? I always have him on the table.

[Fangbanger]

Yes I know he has to be on the table and on foot for his abilities to work, hence the Damocles... But if he's embarked in a vehicle it comes in automatically turn 2.

 

Up against each other...

 

Maun re-rolls failed reserves - Damocles +/- 1 to reserves

Maun 18" vox range - Damocles 24"

 

Extra 100 points but you do get a bombardment too and you can get your eagle on in turn 2 with your other birds likely joining it. Assuming the Damocles has not been toast but hidding a rhino for a turn should be easy enough

 

I did consider grav rappiers but, I dunno... Model is a bit pants but they are nice and resilient pretty much guaranteeing hull points. Infiltrating them I imagine is pretty strong

Edited July 13, 2016 by Fangbanger

[defl0]

It's more about having a resilient unit on the table so that you don't get killed off before the birds arrive. 

 

T7 and a cover save + camoeline is pretty resilient, especially when it infiltrates so you can pick a spot out of harm's way. 

 

Finally, a re-rollable 3+ is pretty close to AUTO in from a percentage perspective. 

[Fangbanger]

Yeah I like the idea of residence in turn 1...

 

Do you feel grav rappiers may be a better bet to the vindi laser?

[defl0]

It's a personal choice. Raven Guard have all the traditional tank hunting options, although other legions often excel in tank hunting with units that can pick up tank hunter or get modifiers like Dynat with Alpha legion. 

 

What makes Rapier weapon platforms intersting in a Raven Guard list is that you can infiltrate them AND have a really good chance of going first. So they are much more dangerous than in other legions. I feel similarly about breachers with grav. 

 

You get to place them after your opponent deploys, which means they are always in a great spot either defensively (in cover with camo) or offensively (in a spot that has not cover save). 

 

So vindi lasers are great BUT they are only just as good as in other legions. 

[Fangbanger]

All about playing to legion stregths so yeah makes a lot of sense

 

I think I will try both out and see which I prefer

[SkimaskMohawk]

Grav gets better the more you have because they remove a hull point per shot more or less, while las-vindis are good for fishing for explodes on non spartans 

[defl0]

I totally agree with this. I've been playing my Raven Guard as infiltrated Alpha Legion recently and a big difference I see between the two legions is how much better Alpha Legion are a tank hunting and how much better Raven Guard are a infantry clearing. 

 

Alpha Legion are great with units like Dynat and rapiers or Skorr with infiltrating tank hunting laser destroyers. Raven Guard can;t even get close to that sort of tank hunting power. But we can get all sorts of infiltrating or deepstriking grav weapons. 

 

So grav has really become my tank hunting gun type of choice.

[Gyem]

So where do we even begin ? Cheaper tac, vet, cheaper and better seekers, way cheaper assault (with apo now).

But more expensive Sicaran, lightning, Typhon...

[Nusquam]

The second edition for the marine list leaks are hitting the net. Assault marines got a huge point cut of -75. I am ecstatic. Seekers and Recons got cheaper. Anvillus got IGS. Chaplains cause fear. I'm drooling over all the goodies.

 

All right so first thoughts to my future lists:

• Going to take assault marines now, since theyre so much cheaper
• Still going to have some tacs, since they got cheaper too
• Hesitant about destroyers out of strictly 'fun' lists since they remain unchanged(so costly)
• Apothecaries going in Mor Deythan Squads
• Apothecaries going in Dark Fury Squads(Most excited about this)
• Never going to take breachers above 10, or outside ZM, since they got more expensive once you go over 10
• Infiltrating and scouting Seekers to unleash the new 24" S5 AP2 Shred scorpius bolts on poor victims
• Considering the Sky Slayer squadron as my sole HS unit in Decap lists
• Still considering Lightnings with Krakens despite the cost increase, especially considering that flare Spartans got so much more expensive
• Stormlord pain train is a go! Single Knight Lancer LoW is a go!
• Anvilus pods have internal Guidance, Dread pod now expensive may go with anvillus from now on
• Cheaper Recons make ReCo that much better

 

So Some new go-to unit 'kits'

• A Murder of Crows: Dark Fury squad with Chaplain and Jump Pack Apoth for Fear, Zealot, and FnP on all those Ravens Talons.
• Tier Zero: Mor Deythan with Apoths for longevity
• An Unkindness of Ravens: Infiltrated Seekers, with attached vig for scout/stealth, and apoth for setting up AP2 kill-zones
• AM blobs with Apothecaries

Edited July 15, 2016 by Nusquam

[Gyem]

Apothecaries everywhere. I'm so glad I magnetized their backpack.

 

Not sure with Mor Deythan since they lose a lot of value after their fatal strike. Same thing with the Chap in the Furies since they already have Mastercrafted.

 

Seekers look really strong right now even without Combi-weapons.

 

Last thing is Angel's Wrath is coming back with strafing run !

[Nusquam]

Fear and Fearless alone makes the Chap worth it for me. Plus master crafted only gives us one reroll because you still dont use paired weapons as a pair, it just nets +1A. Zealot will reroll all attacks and then master craft keeps them hitting afterwords.

 

I always have 3 plasmaguns in my MD squad so I'm considering apoths with them, especially in ZM.

[Sircyn]

I was at the FW open day today and had a chat with Alan Bligh. While I was at it I asked about the recon rite of war and giving Legion equipment to unique characters, both of these things crop up on the forums and are often contested amongst Ravens players so I wanted to hear his thoughts on the matter.

 

1) Recon company does require three recon squads as compulsory troops. He said that just taking one doesn't pass the common sense test, it's not much of a recon company if you only take five recon marines. He said that they'd explicitly mention if they were optional, or just remove the Legion support rule from recon marines if they intended them to be optional compulsory troops.

 

2) This issue related to what we were talking about regarding the new list updates released this week. They are realigning the balance of infantry and vehicles to what was intended when they set out writing the rules in 5th edition. Vehicles were too strong because new editions of 40k changed the balance. The unique rule changed in 7th 40k and they didn't really notice it. He said their intent is that unique characters can't take additional equipment or be altered as it was in 6th ed. So no Alvarex Maun with camo cloak guys.

 

Of course you can house rule or RAW it in an interpretation you prefer, but that's the RAI from the horse's mouth.

[Caillum]

Well, I'm convinced. You don't get much more legit than Alan Bligh!

 

Shame about the Legion-specific items. Cyber-familiar on Autek Mor and power dagger on Armillus Dynat are going to be missed!

[Nusquam]

The unique rule hasn't changed since 5th. It's still only "can't take more than one", page 49 of the 5E BRB. I don't know what it was before 5th though.

 

The ReCo thing is as I suspected. And recons got cheaper, so Im ever more behind it.

[Sircyn]

Haha! Just goes to show that even the professionals don't have encyclopaedic knowledge of every rule. The people gathered around had the same assumption that unique characters were immalleable (myself included when I first saw this online) until I mentioned this and people got their digital rule books up. It must be a hang over from the special character rules even further back and is a nice example of how the culture of groups can alter how people think and play.

 

Alan did say it's not his place to be changing the main rulebook or chasing after FAQ'S like the draft 40k ones which as far as he is concerned arent a problem or to be used until something official drops and he will then worry about them.

 

If he does want to do anything about this he will add rules to Heresy, like with the scoring unit and lords of war rules. He said that the new Legion rules came about mostly from player feedback and a desire to rebalance back to the original intent of force composition for the heresy feel, so it is worth talking to them in person or writing letters as they do take this kind of interaction in.

[defl0]

I was at the FW open day today and had a chat with Alan Bligh. While I was at it I asked about the recon rite of war and giving Legion equipment to unique characters, both of these things crop up on the forums and are often contested amongst Ravens players so I wanted to hear his thoughts on the matter.

 

1) Recon company does require three recon squads as compulsory troops. He said that just taking one doesn't pass the common sense test, it's not much of a recon company if you only take five recon marines. He said that they'd explicitly mention if they were optional, or just remove the Legion support rule from recon marines if they intended them to be optional compulsory troops.

 

2) This issue related to what we were talking about regarding the new list updates released this week. They are realigning the balance of infantry and vehicles to what was intended when they set out writing the rules in 5th edition. Vehicles were too strong because new editions of 40k changed the balance. The unique rule changed in 7th 40k and they didn't really notice it. He said their intent is that unique characters can't take additional equipment or be altered as it was in 6th ed. So no Alvarex Maun with camo cloak guys.

 

Of course you can house rule or RAW it in an interpretation you prefer, but that's the RAI from the horse's mouth.

 

That's a bummer of both accounts. 

 

1. Raven Guard is a Recon Legion to some extent. 

2. Big blow to Maun. It was a nice little force multiplier he added to a unit. 

 

Overall, I always thought that it was lame that special characters didn't have additional access to wargear. They are all captains and praetors for frick sake! 

[Gorgoff]

Yes, and they already have the stuff they used in their lives. Why should you be able to change that? All special characters who changed their wargear from time to time have an option to do just that.

[defl0]

Diving through the new book. Quick Q. 

 

Servo - automata in a techmarine covenant. Can they infiltrate with the tech marine? My initial instinct is to say yes as it is similar to rapier platforms, but I thought I would see what you guys thought. 

[defl0]

Also, do you think Apotehecaries can join Rapier platform squads? 

[Gorgoff]

Also, do you think Apotehecaries can join Rapier platform squads?

 

Nope. Only infantry

[Fangbanger]

Does anyone have any joy infiltrating heavy support squads or are they a bit to squishy for the points cost?

[Nusquam]

Yes, and they already have the stuff they used in their lives. Why should you be able to change that? All special characters who changed their wargear from time to time have an option to do just that.

 

I'm sure Maun has changed his gear more than once. It's that special characters usually have 'famous loadouts' rather than adaptable ones. Maybe an IF Captain may not change his stuff, but pragmatic RG one would depending on mission. But alas this is a game, not a simulator.

 

 

Diving through the new book. Quick Q. 

 

Servo - automata in a techmarine covenant. Can they infiltrate with the tech marine? My initial instinct is to say yes as it is similar to rapier platforms, but I thought I would see what you guys thought. 

I would say yes, they do form a squad with him.

 

 

Does anyone have any joy infiltrating heavy support squads or are they a bit to squishy for the points cost?

 

I've done it before. It works. If I go that route I usually attach a Siege Breaker for tank hunter and camo. Then he can spot for deepstrikers and things like rapiers. I used to do lascannons and frags mortars, to pop vehicles and mince insides. But next time i'll do phosphex shells.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Stealth buff to nex, as he has no cap on chain fire compared to the rest