[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[hivey]

that would probably make them top tier, at least in my mind.

[shaun03]

Yeah our unique Terminators are pretty :cussty. I have tried to find a use for them but cant seem to make the work. They want to be close but, there giving the option for long range support. Than giving them a  really miss match pair of weapons. Plasma blaster would have made :cuss ton for more sense.  There probably worse designed and though unit in HH line up. Every other  legion to date ( cant speak on book 5) have useful and fluffy terminators, and we get suck garbage.  Honesty red butchers make more sense on paper and on the table than these fools. Like golly gee FW you had a blank slate to make stand out  unit like other legions have, and your dropped the :cussing ball big time. 

 

But at lest with COH we can still a terminator uint that worth something 

 

 

Unless I am missing something that makes the guys worth wild. 

[hivey]

idk, i think the thing about AL termies is the flexibility. they have decent shooting due to volkites and can take a plasma blaster per each 5 guys, so they have a few AP2 shots for heavier things, while the volkites make it easier to clear out hordes. they have axes for CC that can be bumped up to fists, meaning they can deal with high T/2+ Sv models and vehicles. combine that with the mutable tactics, and you can have them be even better at CC (counter attack), better against vehicles (tank hunters), or get them up close turn one (infiltrate). granted, the whole army will have to do the same thing, but thats why id personally pick infiltrate. with alpharius, they (and the whole army) get much better due to preferred enemy.

[Caillum]

I think they are a "sum of parts" unit. WS 5, Stubborn, power axes and volkite chargers means they are more inclined towards close combat. The Harrower even has an extra attack, so I'd hunt down other TEQs with them. Give them a couple of plasma blasters, put them in a Spartan, choose Infiltrate and get into your opponents face. Alpharius' Preferred Enemy will make them even better, like hivey said. All of that combines into a solid unit.

 

Having said that, if you run Coils of the Hyrda, then Firedrakes are just better; same stat-line, but with 2 Wounds and a 3++. All they drop is shooting (unfortunately) and Stubborn, but they shouldn't lose combat too often. They still get Mutable Tactics and Alpharius' buffs. I reckon they would also make for good conversions with all the scales on them. :)

[Marshal Loss]

WS5, Stubborn, Scoring & only slightly more expensive than a similarly equipped Legion Terminator Squad. They may not be the best Terminator unit in 30k and require a bit of thinking to get the most out of them, but you're overreacting more than a little bit. When compared to some other Stubborn Terminators (Justaerin, Phoenix Guard) it's readily apparent that Lernaens are far from an awful unit and don't overpay for what they get.

 

Terminators are overwhelming in general frankly (with a handful of exceptions) but Lernaens are still an excellent unit. With their equipment being what it is, like Caillum said you want them close, and they are a fantastic choice to take objectives through a barrage of enemy fire.

[v6v77]

So im seeing around the web (mainly on 1d4chan so salt is required) that venom spheres can be used to grant HoW to the unit not juat the character. Away from my books now so cant read the grenade rules in full but any thoughts?

[1ncarnadine]

So im seeing around the web (mainly on 1d4chan so salt is required) that venom spheres can be used to grant HoW to the unit not juat the character. Away from my books now so cant read the grenade rules in full but any thoughts?

 

"Venom Spheres are assault grenades that grant their bearer the Hammer of Wrath special rule."

 

The wording looks pretty clear to me. They might be talking about the Venom Sphere Harness though. The harness definitely grants HoW to the whole unit for that turn's assault phase, but only when it's fired as a one-shot weapon. The Lernaeans are the only unit that has access to it though, as far as I know.

[rebjorn]

But tough to know where to drop this as it's a purchasing question.

 

I'm laying out rough plans for purchases based on a set of lists from 1-3k points and struggling between two Sicarans, or 1 Sicaran and 1 Venator.

 

For reference of task overlaps Im looking at getting:

Falchion for my LoW

3 grav Rapiers

magnetized vets (MG/MB Tank hunters, sniper HBs, ?? Plasmas)

Lerneans for AP2 / hordes

Stormeagle

Spartan

Plus dropping in & out at various levels Headhunters/seekers, recon/ mor dethyan, destroyers, tactical blobs and 3x predators or whirlwinds (magnetised)

 

Any input would be appreciated, just wish the venator components were available separately!

[rebjorn]

Going for two standard Sicarans, ffigure my the time superheavies are an issue I'll be fielding one also and infiltrating power/chainfists and melts bombs should be enough with multiple haywire blasts

[xera32]

I find that as AL our rules are too good to pass up by playing with vehicles. I would love it if the contemptors had LA rule but right now I can't see myself taking a contemptor over a rapier, or even a sicarian BT or predators. The only time I am taking vehicles it is for something that I can't get from LA units (AA and large blasts).

[v6v77]

I find that as AL our rules are too good to pass up by playing with vehicles. I would love it if the contemptors had LA rule but right now I can't see myself taking a contemptor over a rapier, or even a sicarian BT or predators. The only time I am taking vehicles it is for something that I can't get from LA units (AA and large blasts).

Infiltrating dreadnoughts would be amazong. Getting such a nasty unit up close to do some real damage with graviton or kheres. Turn 2 charge with chainfists after laying down some missle hurt with the havoc launcher. Nice.

[rendingon1+]

Weird question incoming:

How do you represent gal vorbak in CotH? I know AL copies other legions but I'm not sure (well, in fact I AM sure) they would dabble in demonic stuff. Oh, and do they have to be on 40mm base?

[xera32]

The Gal Vorbak aren't necessarily AL marines, it could be wordbearers that were tricked into doing what the AL wanted. Or if you wanted to reconcile the fact that AL didn't get the super spawndom of the WB, you could do them up as Battle-Automata that the AL got their hands on and started tinkering with. Or maybe one of the AL cells have been meddling with the same serum that the RG receieved (and was then corrupted by AL).

[rendingon1+]

Danke. What about the bases? If they can be fit on 25 or 32 I would represent them as super-killer-assassins in normal pa.   That would even work from fluff perspective (well, with a bit of stretching but anyway). What I mean is, as we all know AL geneseed sometimes produced very big guys, almost the size of Alpharius. Sooo... If I make them as super-assassin squad, gal vorbak stats could easily reflect their size, strenght and resilence (more or less). All other special rules can be easiliy explained by special training, demon is just refractor field and fear is nothing hard to justify either. And so on.

 

Hm.

 

What do you think?

[v6v77]

Love the idea of them being uberstartes. Maybe as a result of the uncorrupted primarch genetics they retrieved from under the raven guards nose.

 

On another note i tend to use Havcos or Ghal as my treason choice. Do others have anything else they would add for 215ish points?

 

Also how do havocs work with lascannons. Overkill? Knight killers maybe?

Edited August 11, 2015 by v6v77

[xera32]

Gal Vorbak are on 40mm and I would keep them there. You couldn't fit a few of them on anything smaller, they are bigger than terminators. Autocannon havocs is what I would take if taking them, lascannon duty is better performed by rapiers. The biggest problem I have with taking havocs is that heavy weapon teams need a building to hide in (unless IH) or they get quickly destroyed by scorpius' and other basic marine killing waepons. With CotH not allowing a fortification to be taken (so no Imperial Bunker) I personally avoid havocs.

For 200 points there isn't many good Rewards of treason units to take. My personal favourites right now are Tyrants, Gal Vorbak, Suzerain, Red Butchers and Mor Dethyan, but these will all cost 3-500.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Tabk Hunter Autocannin Havoc could be pretty decent. Bs5, s7 Tank Hunter puts them at Knight Killing potential on a flank. (20 s7 shots, 17-18 hits, 8ish glances on an already wounded or badly rolling Knight is cool beans)

 

Fulmentarus or Siege Terminators are similarly good, but Fulmentarus lose some of their edge due to not having other UM units to bounce off.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[Terminus]

I am looking for a new Legion to start, and have been eyeballing Alpha Legion (mainly because the color scheme is very nice and it gives me an excuse to buy all the neat unique models like Red Butchers and Gal Vorbak). Reading over this thread, am I right in my understanding that Alpha Legion is a middling army rules-wise (which I'm fine with), with the only standouts being potentially questionable "tactics" like deepstriking Castellax (this one seems illegal) and the Saboteur with Combat Array (this one seems hilarious)?  The terminators seem to be bad, the Headhunters seem like they would be okay if they could take combi-weapons (but they can't, so...).

[xera32]

AL are top tier, never underestimate army wide tank hunter or infiltrate. AL play best as either Coils of the Hydra with improving other legions units with infiltrate, or Orbital Assault with Dynat to make your army into the best alpha strike of any legion.

Until FW errata or FAQ the headhunters to use combi weapons like their parent unit they are bad I wouldn't take them over seekers. And laerneans don't know what they a want to be and are outshone by just basic terminators with more focused goals. But this isn't a problem when you can do CotH and just take the units from other forces.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Both Deep Striking Castellax and the saboteur are illegal, both down to how the order of operations goes.

[paz]

I used a 10 man vet squad with two multimeltas and a combi melta with Dynat the other day. They come in using his hammerstrike, totally nuked a landraider (did not have armored ceramite). +3 to damage chart is craaaaaay (it was in his deployment zone, and I had tankhunters on the meltas).

 

I think next time, a support squad is gunna be a better investment, those 10 vets got beat up pretty bad by the rest of his army. 

 

Dynat to me doesnt seem worth it below 2000 pts. you need a lot of units to really take advantage of his ability, or drop pods. 

 

Im going to try running Autilon Skorr under 2000 pts as warlord. So sad that he gets more attacks in cc than Dynat does... weapons mastery my ass.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Drop Pods + Dynat is how Top Tier Alpha Legion should be played IMHO. Infiltrate is too reliant on your opponent running the same builds. RG are the best legion in the game because they combine everything that's strong in the game at the minute; Drop Pods, Infiltrate and Terrain without being hampered by Orbital Assaults limitations, so can still bring a Typhon. 

[Terminus]

I do not think I'd go that far. If the mission and opponent make infiltrate a viable tactic, I would rather give my assault/bike/terminator units infiltrate than furious charge. If infiltrate is useless, I'd rather have another of the Mutable Tactics rather than fleet on infantry and furious charge on everything else.

 

Also, AL seem to have better characters, including the Primarch (Corax only primarch confirmed to cry like a little bitch). The Ravens do have a very very nice rite, but honestly the only thing keeping coils from being the bomb is the third compulsory troop unit, which becomes irrelevant at larger game sizes (and the additional heavy slots and borrowed units make it better than the Ravens'). The Ravens do have nicer unique units.

 

Just IMO.

[Caillum]

Hesh, what would a Dynat Orbital Assault list look like to you? Seems like a legit strat!

[Hesh Kadesh]

Dynat with Headhunters in pod, gives you PE Phosphex which is pretty good, as well as giving them some proper welly in an assault. 

 

Multiple Legion Dreadnoughts with dual Grav, slows enemies, and pops transports.

 

Deathstorms come in as cheap DPA assets to get all your important units on the board. 

 

Caestus provide a S8 AP1 Large Blast and are highly resilient. These can carry your 10 man tac squads.

 

Terminators teleporting in are cheap and damaging.

 

Podded in Melta and plasma squads. 

 

Deredeos in a Pod.

 

Mix and match until you get used to your meta. Remember that you don't have access to the big legion unit strengths (with effectiveness); namely Grav Rapiers and Typhons, but the multiple angles of attack completely wrecks many tactics; that's why RG are so much better for that style of list.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh