[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[GreyCrow]

I have a feeling that the Coils of the Hydra is most efficient when played with Alpharius and when knowing what the opponent you'll be facing will be bringing. You can bring similar units to throw him off, and even "steal" their reserve :p

[shaun03]

I use COH often,but  switching it with other ROW lately just play something different, but I usually stick to COH when going to events. Either 30k or mixed 30k/40k.

 

While it's not the most powerful ROW, the ability to change a free tactic comes in handy. You got build it like a swiss army knife not planning on taking 1 tactic 100% of the time. Selecting units that can adapt on the fly, and picking a well rounded traitor sq. is plus too.  I have use iron havoc's with ML, the cheapest flakk in the game, and could put pressure on a lot things minus LOW tanks, and spartans. Luckily spartans are rare in my area. 

 

The "Stealing" of reserves it nice but rule lawyers are having field day with it. And it out side of 30k its almost useless. FW needs to FAQ it and answer a lot of questions. 

 

Alpharius is game changer for sure, no doubting that and toss in COH list fits him well. Honestly does well in just about any ROW.  He will have tough time matched up against his brother, he really meant to boon the whole army, not be stand out and beat-stick. Not in to math hammer but their chart out that shows which pirmarch will win out. Alpharius didn't score too high, but on the more up side he greatly boost the whole force and less lucky to catch a typhoon round to face as say charing Argon would. 

 

 

Rad grenades and vendom spears stack well together nothing new and surprising there. But I often over look Rad ML and power daggers, yes the PD is cheap and way to give and extra attack to specialist weapon, but I have been  tag teaming my destroyers and headhunter and rad evens out the-1S from the dagger. Nothing ground breaking but fun to use if you like running those units together. 

 

 

The FW bulletin shows us where in line up for some XX flare, I was assuming we would get beaker helmets but assuming is mother all :cuss up's, the chest plate looks on par, but the helmet threw be off at first, while the Alpha symbol on the face looks cool, it kinda looks the face plate  wasn't 100% done or something.  

[GreyCrow]

Oh, what are they saying against it ? I would feel that it's pretty clear as long as the units are from the same entry profile :) It is indeed useless outside of 30k like you mentionned however.

 

Agreed that Alpharius really isn't the beast some other Primarchs are, and in a duel he would probably lose against most. But Alpharius would likely not take on an uninjured Primarch :p Cognis Signum and Cameleoline is a pretty cool squad buffer, as well as decent ranged and melee weapons. But what's huge is preferred enemy to Legiones Astartes !

 

I do agree that he seems to work well with any ROW, I'm thinking of starting a Pride of the Legion army and use him for games of 2k points and he would work well indeed because he'd make all the army work super well haha :D

[xera32]

The problem is there is no such thing as a unit entry. What you think is a unit entry is called an Army List Entry. And the use of the word "type" throws a wrench in the works as here is such a thing as Unit Type.

Taken in total, the rule reads like 2 terms mashed together. If they mean exact army list entry, the rule is useless outside of drop pods and massive games. If it refers to unit type, it becomes a whole lot more useful and actually likely to come up in a game.

So trying to parse what the rule is trying to refer to becomes problematic, as no matter how you read it, you need to omit or change a word to refer to anything that is in the game.

[GreyCrow]

Well not really, you have Outflankers, you have Deep Strikers, you have units that are brought from reserves in fliers or in Transports, you have units held in regular reserves :)

[xera32]

Well not really, you have Outflankers, you have Deep Strikers, you have units that are brought from reserves in fliers or in Transports, you have units held in regular reserves

 

Except you don't. If your opponent knows Alpharius is in your force (they don't get to know where on the tabletop, they do get to know you have him), they can choose quite easily to not put things in reserves. And you need to have the same Army List Entry that you want to reserve. In massive games, there is more chance of you having the same unit that you would like to reserve, and drop pods are an easy out, as an orbital drop list MUST have some, and Orbital drop is one of the best RoW for AL. And if you deploy first, your opponent knows exactly what is in your reserve pool and would easily counter any swapping you could do.

 

The chances that Insidious Mastermind will disrupt the enemy battleplan is laughable if it was Army List Entry. First you need the same unit, your opponent wants to reserve that unit, then you need to reserve your unit, then you need to 4+ it, but only if theirs comes on before yours. If you deploy first they know your reserves pool. It will almost never work on legion specific units, and the most commonly shared units between 2 lists, are unlikely to be reserved in the first place (with the exception of drop pods and flyers).

 

I think the only thing that requires more stars to align than that is Psychic Shooting Attacks.

[GreyCrow]

 

Well not really, you have Outflankers, you have Deep Strikers, you have units that are brought from reserves in fliers or in Transports, you have units held in regular reserves

 

Except you don't. If your opponent knows Alpharius is in your force (they don't get to know where on the tabletop, they do get to know you have him), they can choose quite easily to not put things in reserves. And you need to have the same Army List Entry that you want to reserve. In massive games, there is more chance of you having the same unit that you would like to reserve, and drop pods are an easy out, as an orbital drop list MUST have some, and Orbital drop is one of the best RoW for AL. And if you deploy first, your opponent knows exactly what is in your reserve pool and would easily counter any swapping you could do.

 

The chances that Insidious Mastermind will disrupt the enemy battleplan is laughable if it was Army List Entry. First you need the same unit, your opponent wants to reserve that unit, then you need to reserve your unit, then you need to 4+ it, but only if theirs comes on before yours. If you deploy first they know your reserves pool. It will almost never work on legion specific units, and the most commonly shared units between 2 lists, are unlikely to be reserved in the first place (with the exception of drop pods and flyers).

 

I think the only thing that requires more stars to align than that is Psychic Shooting Attacks.

 

 

Which is good ! If he placed that unit in reserves in the first place, it was to provide some tactical advantage. Imagine it's a Podded Veteran squad or Dreadnought something. Now it has to start on the table, way outside of its effectiveness range. Forcing the opponent to diminish his effectiveness in order to counter one of your gimmicks has tactical quality in itself

 

If it starts on the table and is a close ranged unit, it deals less damage and is able to be picked off by, say, the Master of Signal you happened to have lying around

 

EDIT : But it does require you to know you meta and it's probably not interesting for take all comers armies. It would work best with generic units, but because it's on a 4+, it's only a gimmick that is nice to have when it's there but not something to build an army one/ The psychological factor in itself is appealing though :D

Edited June 2, 2015 by GreyCrow

[hivey]

there is a little event/tournie coming up at the end of the month at my local shop. 1500pts. lords of war follow HH rules, so theyre not allowed. im torn on whether i should use the coils of the hydra rite, pride of the legion, or orbital assault. also unsure of whether i should use dynat, or a regular praetor.
thoughts?

[PastelAvenger]

there is a little event/tournie coming up at the end of the month at my local shop. 1500pts. lords of war follow HH rules, so theyre not allowed. im torn on whether i should use the coils of the hydra rite, pride of the legion, or orbital assault. also unsure of whether i should use dynat, or a regular praetor.

thoughts?

I would use a Delegatus so you have more points for troops and probably take Orbital strike and Tank Hunters, make sure you make his Armour and Elites priority targets.

 

I can't see anyone taking Armoured Ceramite so you should be safe with Meltas.

 

For insurance look at a Mortis Contemptor.

 

Do you have a list you're toying with?

[shaun03]

is just 30k or 30/40k 

 

1+ on Delegates he should shine in 1500 pt event.

 

Be that guy and take saboteur, even if you don't take the combat augment relic, you still grained a free pen hit or chance a cause some wounds to a sq.  He cheap and effective, someone try's to be cute and takes a spartan its good way to level the field.

 

I haven't field  praetor in very long time,  its either dynat or delegates as they offer us so much more than normal praetor does. 

 

Drop pod with destroyers and dynat is nasty surprise costly on points. Or take him in pod  with FC vets and smack the out something.

 

You take both dynat and delegatus, a few pages back there was debate on who would be in charge over the two so it might be worth the headache of dealing said rule lawyers. But if you do take both they stack nicely, you still get the 1+ on damage table because dyant doesn't have be warlord for that rule to take effect. And with delegatus in charge you get to pick your trait and use chosen duty if you wish. 

 

BUT delegatus his rules are still experimental ( unless they changed that in book 5 haven't read it yet) so check to see if allowed.

Edited June 3, 2015 by shaun03

[PastelAvenger]

Oh and if you're allowed to take a Delegatus take chosen duty just for the reason that it reduces your opponents VP acquisition.

[hivey]

No relics allowed sadly. At least one person will have mechanicus.

 

Models i own and can use: about 45 bolters, 5 meltaguns, 2 plasma guns, 6 autocannons, 4 missile launchers, 1 heavy bolter, 5 man command squad, dynat, exodus, librarian, saboteur, 1 combi-plasma sergeant, 3 combi-flamer sergeants, 3 apothecaries, 2 missile deathstorm pods, 4 drop pods.

 

Will hopefully have the delegatus model and a fire raptor by then as well.

[PastelAvenger]

Just a thought but how about this?

If

+++ Alpha (1470pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Power Dagger, Power Fist, Refractor Field]

····Consul

········Delegatus

············Master of the Legion [Chosen Duty]

 

Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Refractor Field]

····Consul [saboteur]

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Tactical Squad [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Dagger, Power Fist]

 

Legion Tactical Squad [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Dagger, Power Fist]

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, 2x Plasma Gun, Sniper]

····Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Dagger, Power Fist]

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecarion Detachment

····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Power Sword]

····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Power Sword]

····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Power Sword]

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Legion Fire Raptor Gunship [Four Hellstrike Missiles, Reaper Autocannon battery]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [XX: Alpha Legion]

[hivey]

It would be good, but only power fist i have is on the command banner bearer.

 

What about the melta guys?

 

I like seeing lists, im not super creative when it comes to making lists, i tend to just ise things i like. Any ideas for a pod list?

[shaun03]

Not taking relics stings a little but, saboteur is useful auto pen is worth it. 

 

Melta in drop pod list work well together, more so if take dynat. I never use the deathstorm pods.  So can't speak about them.

 

Also if you do have a fire raptor by then toss it in, worth its points, just add autcannons don't worry about switching at out the missels in 1500 list.

 

With the ML you have add them to vets with web this way you can stay mobile, and there effective as soon as pod lands.  Vets with tank hunter, meltagun and ML and DP.

 

You can build your own delegust model, if you want to run one before you get the FW model, 

 

One thing about the saboteur he is going to die quickly one he arrives he is hard press to surive, more so if mangers to blow up a tank.  So keep him bare bones cheap. IF you running DP you can increase his chances of living but still in low point matches, i found he better to keep bare bones ( sense you can't take relic). 

 

If worry about the robots army, toss in Nvagatore rules are free on FW site, and for 50 he can bring a lot to table, but is fragile and will die easily tuck in some place and, use he power that test agasint I.  Robots will fail it about 50% of time.  Marines are about 30%. 

 

Good luck in the event

Edited June 4, 2015 by shaun03

[hivey]

this is the list im currently thinking of using. mutable tactics used depends on the list im facing. took a praetor instead of a delegatus because just a few more points gets me another wound, a better melee weapon, and a better invuln.

 

did not include a saboteur, because he cant take either a pod or deepstrike, meaning he cant be in the army due to the orbital assault restrictions.

 

HQ:
155- Praetor, Iron Halo, Power Dagger, Paragon Blade

220-  (Command Squad) 4 Chosen, 1 Standard Bearer,  Power Fist, 4 Power Weapons, 5 Combat Shields
35- Drop Pod

115- Librarian, Master Level 2

Elites:
55- Apothecary, Artificer Armor

Troops:
150- 9 Tactical Marines, 1 Sergeant
35- Drop Pod

150- 9 Tactical Marines, 1 Sergeant
35- Drop Pod

160-  4 Support Marines, 1 Sergeant, 4 Meltaguns, 1 Combi-Melta
35- Drop Pod

Heavy Support:
145- Deathstorm Drop Pod, Krak Missiles, Drop Pod Assault

210- Fire Raptor, Autocannons

Total: 1500

Edited June 4, 2015 by hivey

[PastelAvenger]

Why the combi weapon on the Support Squad Sarg? He comes with a Meltagun as standard you know?

[hivey]

combi melta was a free swap from his flamer, saved me 15 points.

[PastelAvenger]

I usually just pay the points for the entire Squad never thought about it like that, good idea!

[hivey]

it helps lesson the pain of the squad dying after they kill something, as i know the will, and it means i could put 15 points somewhere else, in this case adding a power fist on the command squad, who is more likely to survive.

[GreyCrow]

Ah, this is an interesting point indeed ! You could also add an augury scanner for that point to get that Interceptor rule !

[Dumas Caine]

Hello all!

Im very new to the Heresy and to marines in general so please be patient with me....i may have a question...lol

 

in regards to coils of the hydra and mutable tactics...would i be right/wrong in saying that i would need to meet the row requirements of all infantry needing deep strike/infiltrate/transport before mutable tactics come into play?

 

for example- i couldnt take 3 tac squads on foot and have the list be legal even though im planning on choosing infiltrate as my tactic.

[v6v77]

Hello all!

Im very new to the Heresy and to marines in general so please be patient with me....i may have a question...lol

 

in regards to coils of the hydra and mutable tactics...would i be right/wrong in saying that i would need to meet the row requirements of all infantry needing deep strike/infiltrate/transport before mutable tactics come into play?

 

for example- i couldnt take 3 tac squads on foot and have the list be legal even though im planning on choosing infiltrate as my tactic.

Welcome to the heresy brother.

 

You actually can take 3 footslogging tacs but you then must choose infiltrate as your mutable tactic. Anything with legiones astartes (alpha legion) in its special rule profile (and anything you steal from an opponent) can do this. That includes rapier batteries.

 

Footslog and infiltrate and it will save you many many points...

[Dumas Caine]

Thank you for the welcome. 

 

a part of me doesnt feel like that is right....we dont get to choose our tactic until we roll for warlord traits. that suggests to me that no one has those rules until i get to the battlefield. meaning my list isnt legal until until the game has technically started.

 

another part of me rubs my hands together and mutters, 'excellent'   

[xera32]

There is an email from FW saying this is ok. I think it is lurking somewhere in this thread even