[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Slips]

In One Turn not on turn one :p

[shaun03]

I do like that loading for lighting. And fire raptor is great at removing blobs and light AV stuff.

 

But I feel 2 fliers is a lot points in hold in reserve. So it's tricky trade off.

[Charlo]

Unsure if anyone has mentioned this yet but AL can do a pretty nifty combo with a Moritat, Mutable Tactics and the Phase Walker.

 

Give your Moritat the Phase walker and then ignore the dangerous terrain tests with Move Through Cover from Mutable Tactics. You now have a gunhopping, teleporting sunuva b' that can just hop all game long.

 

Doesn't work with the Coils RoW though!

[Slips]

Another nifty thing you can do with AL Moritat is to give him the Drakina Pistol Relic.

[Charlo]

Another nifty thing you can do with AL Moritat is to give him the Drakina Pistol Relic.

 

Yeah, I was going to suggest that as well but I wasn't sure on the rules with relics in HH games. One per model etc?

[Slips]

 

Another nifty thing you can do with AL Moritat is to give him the Drakina Pistol Relic.

 

Yeah, I was going to suggest that as well but I wasn't sure on the rules with relics in HH games. One per model etc?

 

Relics are only one per army on non-unique independant characters. So technically, you can give a character one-of-everything if possible.

 

So a Moritat, can, have a Warp Shunt Field, Drakina, Void Shield Harness and Phase Walker if you wanted to but, that'd add ~160 points to his cost.

[Charlo]

 

 

Another nifty thing you can do with AL Moritat is to give him the Drakina Pistol Relic.

 

Yeah, I was going to suggest that as well but I wasn't sure on the rules with relics in HH games. One per model etc?

 

Relics are only one per army on non-unique independant characters. So technically, you can give a character one-of-everything if possible.

 

So a Moritat, can, have a Warp Shunt Field, Drakina, Void Shield Harness and Phase Walker if you wanted to but, that'd add ~160 points to his cost.

 

 

Hell of a good time though phasing him next to units that can't hurt his AV 12 and chain firing into them!

[Slips]

Yup! and if they did burst his bubble (heh), he'd have a 3++ vs shooting that would reflect D6 S5 Shots back at them on any 6's rolled for saves.

[Resonance]

so I'm thinking a squad of 8 Invictus suzerains in a land raider proteus would be a fun to have in an alpha CotH force.

The ap2 at initiative is just what is needed to take out some heavy hitting termies before they can strike. And the proteus takes the exploratory augury web to disrupt enemy reserves (even further with CotH mwuahaha).

What do you all think?         

[Slips]

Having an assault sqaud in a non-assault ramp'd vehicle kinda defeats the purpose.

[Resonance]

You don't have to have them in it.

 

It lets you get the land raider without having to use up a heavy support choice

Edited September 14, 2015 by Resonance

[Slips]

But then why take Suzerians at all if you arent shoving them down your enemies throat and getting them into CC?

 

Since its a dedicated transport only they can start the game inside meaning your be wasting a turn getting a unit starting outside of it to hop back in.

 

Might as well take 8 combi-plasma seekers instead since they can also take a proteus as a Dedicated iirc. And would take a fast slot instead of elites or heavy.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Hesh Kadesh]

Any assault squad should go in a Dreadclaw. If you cannot find a reason to out them in a Dreadclaw, have a rethink about the unit. Having the free slot is helpful, but at 250 for the Proteus, 100 for the dreadclaw, another 250ish for the unit on top of a third troop tax... Yeah, that additional hq choice aint so hot.

[xera32]

Dreadclaws depend on what people use in your area. When there is lots of grav being spammed then the dreadclaws are better. If your area plays with lots of deredeos and quad mortars the land raider might live, but the dreadclaw definitely won't.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Use terrain then. Like the rules state.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I have to say people absolutely don't use a proper amount of terrain or even the right types of it. I get that homemade terrain can be tricky and that space is an issue, but having large LoS blockers, impassible terrain, no windows on bottom levels of ruins in addition to low cover can really change the dynamic of the game from 6ish pieces of open area terrain.  

 

This also opens up infiltrating and scouting to their full potential (you can actually hide units) and limits some of the strength of direct fire armies

[Resonance]

The suzys in a proteus wouldn't be charging first turn because of scout/infiltrate anyway.

 

I would look to use them more like a counter charge unit.

[SkimaskMohawk]

He means it's useless as a transport for an assault unit as you have to disembark a turn in advance. If you were planning on sticking another unit in it then you'd need to wait all of turn one getting the alternative unit in before, so having to wait until turn 2 to move.

 

Might as well just get a Rhino for them

[Resonance]

Yeah I know what he means.

 

As I wrote though. You can use them as a blocking type unit to give pause to the enemy charge.

 

With most alpha legion units infiltrating, you will not get a first turn charge either way.

 

So turn one roll them up and disgorge them either in the way of something scary like some termies or put the right into the enemy backline and let them destroy it ( maybe give them some thunder hammers for tank killing capacity) in turn two onwards.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Here's the differences. First terminators can charge when the disembark, meaning they have an immediate threat. Second, terminators have at worst a 5++, most of the time people take cataphractii if they're running them in raiders so a 4++; invictarii have a 6++ from shooting. Now this wouldn't be so much of a problem if you didn't have to spend a turn in the open.

 

No one is saying they're bad for not getting a first turn charge, just that its a poor investment because you're leaving some very expensive models with poor staying power in the open for your opponent's turn. For disruption to be effective you need to oversaturate your opponent with threats, so in this case its hard to comment because all we know so far is that you have this one unit you're driving into the enemy's grill; if you have some contemptor pods or support squads rolling up too then I can see the having to split resources on killing multiple threats, but if not its for sure a waste of points

[shaun03]

Trying to decide if taking a xiphon over lighting.

 

Giving lighting x2 krak missiles and tank hunter and +1 bs comes to 5 points less than Xiphon with ground tracking upgrade.

 

Damage output the xiphon looks like it would out preform lighting and survivability is about the same.

 

Really can't decide on which one is better to include

[Terminus]

I think the loaded out Kraken lightning ( I would take at least 4 since that's how many it can fire) is great at large games when you know the opponent will have some annoying Lord of War. Nothing deletes tough stuff quite like it. The Xiphon is more of an air-superiority fighter. It will do a number on other fliers and lighter ground vehicles (or even dodging around a knight's shield), but it will bounce off a Typhon or Warhound or something along those lines.

 

Over multiple turns the Xiphon can definitely do more damage for cheaper with its consistent 4 high strength shots a turn, but with AV11 and HP2, I wouldn't expect many turns out of these units. If the opponent has any anti-air capability, both planes die very quickly, so I rather front-load the damage against their scariest thing. If I want a sky bully, the Fire Raptor seems like it does that better. Speaking of which, do the independent turrets and machine spirit override the snap shot penalty when it fires hellstrike missiles?

[v6v77]

If I want a sky bully, the Fire Raptor seems like it does that better. Speaking of which, do the independent turrets and machine spirit override the snap shot penalty when it fires hellstrike missiles?

I have talked it through with rules lawyers, the WAAC memebers of my group and my local GM manager and we all agree they do.

 

If your opponent is funny about it fire the missiles first and then machine spirit the nose. The turrets are treated independantly (like tau drones though i shudder to make the comparison). The rules are pretty much black and white so you should have no trouble.

[shaun03]

Fire raptor are great, no fun to build. Looking to add something different. List gets stale and old, after while.

 

The game where I would be feilding them are between 1850-2000. No crazy Titans. Few players field dule Spartans. 30k is small growing the cost puts a lot 40k players off. When the plastic line drops I'm sure 30k will gain more players.

 

Other issue minus the fire raptor other fliers work better in pairs, thus leaving a lot points off the table.

 

I really want add more air support to my list but rule of cool and effectively using points is on going battle.

[GreyCrow]

Hey guys, long time no read !

 

Pretty cool chat around here :) Been reading this with much interest ;)

 

I'm still considering between the Raven Guard and the AL for an Heresy army, and I had a few questions :

 

1) The Lernaean Terminators sound pretty cool to me to be honest... I was just wondering though, has anyone played them interestingly ? I really like the idea of an annoying Stubborn Objective Secured unit with WS5, potentially infiltrating. Was thinking that Power Fists would be a bit of a no brainer upgrade for all of them (except maybe a chainfist somewhere), due to being only 5 points per model, and them already having an Unwieldy AP2 weapon and a shooting weapon that doesn't give them extra attack. Plus, their 4+ Invulnerable save should probably help against the tougher units that will charge them.

 

2) What about the Headhunter Kill-Teams ? They don't strike me as particularly potent for the points cost due to the randomness of the Banestrike, but perhaps I'm wrong about that. I do like that they have Preferred Enemy Infantry giving them essentially twin-linked banestrike bolters (but in that case, what's the use for Combi-Bolters ? Just ensuring rerolls in overwatch ?), with a potential for more wounds, but we're still talking about Bolters here... Is the Banestrike heavy bolter any good ?

I don't know, but this unit seems kind of weak... The best use I would see for it is as being able to go in Coils of the Hydra without needing a dedicated transport and being able to choose the mutable tactics.

I really do see them as a great vessel for Exodus though. When taking the Banestrike HB and Exodus, you get a 300 points round unit which is quite damaging, very targeted against characters and infantry alike.

 

3) Saboteurs, interesting in paper, but are they worth it ? A single automatic penetrating hit with Dynat (and the combat augment array combo that was heavily discussed) can be pretty annoying against mechanised forces. Also, don't they mess with the CotH ROW ? They don't have the ability to Infiltrate unless with mutable tactics and don't have deep strike without Dynat, so it would force mutable tactics to choose Infiltrate.

 

4) Coils of the Hydra, how good is it ?

It really, really seems to be meant to be played with Alpharius with a flexible mechanized force in order to choose both the most interesting tactic as well as setting the pace of the game. I mean, you almost have complete control over how you pace the game : Electing to go second to know where the enemy will deploy, picking a Mutable Tactic that is interesting for you, then rerolling 4+ to seize the Initiative. Going for Outflank with more punch when you go for Infiltrate/Scout rules. Messing with the enemy's reserves with standard units and having a 50-50 chance of it being your own.

Is it worth it when you don't elect to use the Rewards of Treason ?

Finally, the Troops tax is pretty steep. How do you take the most of it ? 3 Tactical squads with combis or Power Fists in Rhinos ?

 

5) How to do decent anti-tank well in Alpha Legion armies ? Plasma/Melta Support Squads in Rhinos ? Meltabombs Assault Squads ? Powerfist/Chainfists on Lernaean Terminators ?

 

6) What's a good Spartan plan with the Alpha Legion ? Trolling him into not doing as much as he had hoped ? MSUing to mess with the opponent ?

 

Thanks a lot !