[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[Slips]

Well, you'd be glad to know Dorn Wore black during the Scouring in mourning. 

 

So you wouldnt be wrong.

[Charlo]

Id still paint it black , I might even paint Dorn Black Cause Yolo

I am excited for your Dorn dude!

[Phoenix Darkus]

Im slowly building a Heresy IF army, I have a large collection of space marines based around a homebrew chapter of Templar/Fists descendants. I wanted to own a small 30k IF collection to represent the founders of my 40k chapter.

 

I've only played 1 30k game so far, using IF rules, I've read the heresy books thoroughly and overall I like the Fists special rules but find the special RoW and Warders a bit underwhelming.

 

Here's the list I'm thinking of building at the 2000pts scale:

 

HEADQUARTERS:

 

Sigismund, 1st Captain of the Imperial Fists, 230

Centurion, primus medicae, artificer armor, combat shield, power axe, 115

 

TROOPS:

 

Templars (x8), champ with combat shield and solarite gauntlet, 2 extra combat shields in the squad, melta bombs, 300

Land Raider Phobos dedicated transport, armored ceramite, dozer blade, extra armor, multi melta, 305

Legion tacticals (x10), srgt with artificer armor, combi-melta, power fist, vexilla, squad has extra CCW, 215

Rhino dedicated transport, dozer blade, combi-bolter, 45

 

ELITES:

 

Legion veteran tacticals (x10), srgt with artificer armor, combi-melta, power fist, vexilla, 2 HBs with suspensor webs, sniper USR, 285

Rhino dedicated transport, dozer blade, combi-bolter, 45

Contemptor Mortis dread, dual kheres assault cannons, 180

Legion rapier thudd gun, 60

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

 

Legion heavy support squad (x5), srgt with nuncio vox, augury scanner, 4x lascannons, 220

 

The legion vets were my MVPs in my last game, they can score and shoot hard, hitting on 2s and wounding on 4s at worse.

 

The Templars are MEQs blenders, Sigismund gives them a nice assault buff and the medic a bit more resilience.

 

The heavy weapon legionnaires are always nice and a familiar carry over from 40k.

 

I'm also thinking of building a breacher squad (I love the models) and adding some Warder bits to make them Fistier, I also like that they have the option of carrying MBs over the Warders' very situational special rule. I feel the Gauntlet is way too constraining point-wise (specially at the scale I'll play at) and needs a bigger list to mesh in properly.

 

To the Heresy veteran Fist players: are there any good Fists units or combos that do well on the tabletop that I haven't thought of? Libbies? Jet bikes? Some useful RoWs?

 

Thanks for your help.

[Arthanor]

I am by no means a veteran, and indeed haven't even played/bought anything for 30k yet.. but I am very interested in this question too! It seems like IF are good at:

 

- TH&SS terminators (that sweep in tartaros armor!) and veteran snipers in regular games (so.. not great? )

- Ginormous games where Dorn's buffs can be great (if you're not waiting on his official model) and other primarchs being more killy than him is not so much of a problem.

- Zona Mortalis (where breachers and warders are really good)

 

Also, regarding your list. It seems to me like you could take pride of the legion, take the veterans as a troop unit along with the templars, and free up the 260 points of the tactical squad for something more effective than 10 bolters? Maybe a unit of (also troop with PotL) terminators with some storm shields, plasma blaster and some anti-ap2 cc weapon?

Edited January 15, 2016 by Arthanor

[Slips]

Merged Topic with Imperial Fists Tactica :>

[Phoenix Darkus]

Just got through the thread, thank you Slipstream!

[Slips]

No problem!

 

Welcome to our little cozy corner of the boards ^_^

[Phoenix Darkus]

Quick question: can someone give me a rundown of the extra books and or updates to have the latest HH rules and revisions? I only have books 1-5 but it's my understanding that there are other publications that change and/or update the rules.

[Slips]

Just go to the FW download section and look for the 7th ed FaQ updated for January.

 

Should be everything of import as of now. If you have books 1-5 you shouldnt be missing any actualt printed material outside of a few units like the Leviathan Dread.

 

Im on mobil atm so cant readily link :p

Edited January 16, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Phoenix Darkus]

Where is the updated entry for the thudd gun? Mine only show the S5 shells, not the shatter shells.

[shandwen]

Where is the updated entry for the thudd gun? Mine only show the S5 shells, not the shatter shells.

It is convoluted... apparently a specific land raider added those shells to a listing of the quad thud gun thingy on it and people have taken the listing of aviable shells from there and carried them pver to the rest of the thud guns... so it may actually not be legal to use those shells on rapier ones...

[Slips]

It doesnt help that thebSolar Auxilia and 40k Quad Mortar have access to shatter shells too while this entry doesnt.

 

Most people just play them with having access to the shells.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Being fair, that's possibly just a copy paste from people who don't know what they're doing.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Hesh Kadesh

[Phoenix Darkus]

Found it!

 

The quad mortar entry has been updated under field artillery in: "The Horus Heresy - Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List" p.83

 

Quad Mortar:

 

Frag:  12" - 60"  S5  AP5  Heavy 4, Barrage, Blast (3"), Shell Shock (pin-test at -1 Ld, but not updated for 7th ed)

Shatter:  36"      S8  AP4  Heavy 4, Sunder

[Hesh Kadesh]

Book 1, Betrayal had no mention of Shatter Shells.

 

Shatter Shells were brought in Book 2, Massacre, specifically for the Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider. The fluff; "each being armed with a quad mortar with exacting precision and capable of launching shatter shells as well as the more common frag shells." The wargear for these tanks stating "One hull-mounted quad mortar with frag and shatter shells". 

 

The Quad Mortar Frag shells still includes rules for causing -1 to Pinning tests it causes, yet it cannot Pin, because Barrage doesn't actually have the pinning special rule.

 

The Quad Mortar entry was copy pasted, and so makes no mention of ammunition, in any of its 3 entries across the army books, as was the Field Artillery Weapons entry. The only entry which makes mention of Sunder Shells is that of the Achilles-Alpha.

 

This strikes me more as the only reason why people are able to claim that the Sunder Shells are now backward compatible is as a result of the shoddy copy paste, and FW not actually knowing how to play the game while trying to be helpful. I've actually messaged them with a load of rules queries that still need answering despite the stop gap that came recently (which I'm grateful for, but it's still a rather poor effort for nearly 13 months), and I'm waiting a reply.

[Phoenix Darkus]

The Crusade Army List book came after book three and was meant to update some of the entries in those books.  It describes the quad mortar as stated above and includes the rapier in the army selection.  To me that's about as clear as it gets.

[ThatOneMarshal]

So at my club I can't get people to shut up about me playing fists in heresy. Literally everyone at the club wants me to play fists talking about templar brethren all the time. I actually looked at their states again and I can say that I'm pretty Impressed with them. I've been considering doing a small side project of templars mainly because since their so elite they won't cost as much to make an army and I can use them with my 40k templars.

 

How would you go about using a mainly templar brethren force? How competitive do you think it would be? I was thinking maybe 3 squads backed with the OG EC.

 

For transportation I've been considering taking 3 dreadclaws. The FA is pretty underused so I'm not really losing anything and it's cheaper than grabbing 3 raiders. Though I feel like it's a lose-lose situation for me in regards to transports. My main BT army is a raider rush army while my night lords are all drop pods.

 

For the army itself I'm thinking of going full on armored column with Sicarians in the heavy support as well as a dreads. Basically something complete different from my Night Lords.

Edited January 18, 2016 by ThatOneMarshal

[Slips]

Thats up to you, really.

 

But you just end up building them like any Heavy CC Elite Army. You'll just have to make sure you have a unit capable of dealing with 2+ Saves since, while a Templar Champion can have 5 Power Fist attacks on the Charge at WS5 and S9, its not enough to hedge bets on for taking out Terminator Squads, hell, even other Templar Squads.

 

Due to the Points-Density of Templar-Focused Forces you can generally do a pretty high-point army without much issue.

 

Kinda like:

 

+++ Templar  (2940pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2940pts) ++

 

+ HQ (550pts) +

 

Legion Praetor (550pts) [Digital Lasers, Paragon Blade, Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield]

··Legion Terminator Command Squad [Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod, Chainfist, 3x Legion Space Marine Chosen, 3x Power Fist, Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, 4x Vigil Pattern Storm Shield]

··Master of the Legion [Pride of the Legion]

 

+ Troops (640pts) +

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (320pts) [2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Sniper]

··Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist]

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (320pts) [2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Sniper]

··Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist]

 

+ Elites (810pts) +

 

Templar Brethren (405pts) [9x Combat Shield, Legion Vexilla, Melta Bombs, Nuncio-vox, 9x Templar Brethren]

··Chapter Champion [Combat Shield, Solarite Power Gauntlet]

 

Templar Brethren (405pts) [9x Combat Shield, Legion Vexilla, Melta Bombs, Nuncio-vox, 9x Templar Brethren]

··Chapter Champion [Combat Shield, Solarite Power Gauntlet]

 

+ Fast Attack (200pts) +

 

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100pts)

 

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100pts)

 

+ Heavy Support (740pts) +

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (370pts)

··Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Grav-flux Bombard, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Phosphex Discharger]

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (370pts)

··Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Grav-flux Bombard, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Phosphex Discharger]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [VII: Imperial Fists]

 

 

Ok...yeah. In the end, not that cheap since its using some pretty expensive Forgeworld Models...but hey.

 

You've got 60 Points to play with. If you get the Go-Ahead for Relics, instantly Slap a Void Shield Harness on the Praetor. Otherwise, More Melta Bombs.

 

Otherwise, with 5 Pods, 3 Are dropping in T1; With Two Leviathans, Two Templar Squads and the Praetor Hit Squad, you have a decent amount of flexibility. I wanted to Include some Graviton Dreads or something but eh.

 

All that dropping in should leave your Tac Vets in the back relatively Unharmed/Ignored.

 

No Anti-Air but that can be remedied rather easily if you juggle some points around.

 

Decided not to take MC'd Weapons on the Praetor since IF Rules means he gets Re-Rolls to hit in a challenge anyway.

 

The Heat Blasts on the Dreadclaws, while not amazing, can give you a nice leg up when facing horde armies...and possibly Glance Av10-11 to death on the drop...kinda like Dreadnought Rear Armor...

 

Between Melta Bombs and the S9 AP1 Sol Glove (Charge) on the Templar Champs (5 attacks instead of 1 Armorbane hit) they should be able to deal with MC's and/or AV quite handily with themselves being TEQ with 2+/5++ in CC.

 

The Terminators and Preator are Fearless WS5(+) 2+/3++ that can Sweep. Low on Bodycount but hey.

 

Generally, you'd Drop the Dreadclaws within range of the Tac Vets Nuncio-Voxes if needed/required/desired/possible to avoid any problems.The Templar also having Nuncio's is mostly there in the event that you drop them in first and can make use of them.

 

Otherwise, save yourself the points and get something else...though 80 points isn't much :p

[Lord Blackwood]

So I got a good deal on  a mkiii  tech marine I was thinking about making him a forgelord but in what situation do you think  it would be okay to use one of em

Im thinking maybe put an idom mantle on him and take him in zone mortalis to walk behind the  levithan and heal it ? 

[Slips]

Multiple Uses Though they revolve mostly around chucking a Rad Grenade for a unit and providing more S8 Attacks.

 

In General, just slap on a Sol Glove on him for S8 Ap1 + S8 Ap2 from Servo Arm for general Punching; always take rad grenades and if you can, a Cyber Familiar for +1 Invulnerable or Tartaros & Stormshield for 2+/3++ and Sweeping to go alongside a Tartaros unit.

 

For Templar giving him a Boarding Shield, Cyber Familiar, Rad Grenades and a Sol Glove means that, with the Templars Furious Charge, they're wounding on 2+ vs MEQs with their Power Swords and ID any T3 or Weaker units at that point.

 

For Warders, he gets +1WS which is nice and he does much of the same for them as he does with Templar. He can also give these squads an Augury Scanner if needed or another Nuncio Vox.

 

For Terminators, again, much of the same just take Tartaros & Stormshield and, singe he's relentless now, a Graviton Gun to slow things down and as a source of Haywire where needed. Though in this case, since the Terminators are likely to have S8 Weapons, the Rad Grenades will mostly come into play when going up against T5+ units mainly bringing down T5 to T4 for Instant Death.

 

With the New ZM RoW giving Breachers in B2B +1 Invulnerable and making Terminators Non-Compulsory Troops, having a Boarding Shield and Cyber Familiar Forge Lord boosts him up to a 3++ with Phalanx Warders / Breachers.

 

+++

 

The New RoW I'm meh on.

 

Phalanx Warders as troops is...ok. As is the option to Deepstrike all your infantry and them gaining Shrouded when they Drop in is nice but the 12" Blind Test is situational at best since you can only test for blind once per phase so dropping Multiple Units in the same area to force Blind Tests isnt a thing you can do.

 

It can be good vs Low Initiative Armies like Mechanicum and Necrons and, if you're up against an RG list with Infravisors Galore, you'll have a field day. 

 

+++

Dorns Buff is very nice. Being -1 Initiative instead of Unwieldy is huge as is Reaping Blows Bonus Attack(s). Coupled with Rampage you can have a pretty large amount of S6 Ap2 Shred Attacks at I4 or Half-Again as much S8 Ap2 Instant Death attacks to deal with MCs GMCs or anything S6 would not be as efficient in dealing with.

[Lord Blackwood]

Thanks for the Forgelord Tips Slips , Im modeling him as a representation of that character we talked about a while back. 


--------------------

I think the new rite of war is okay but  warders are pricy even with their buff I dunno if id be terribly inclined to run  two units of  5 or 10 of em 

As far as Dorn Goes  , they really made him quite stronger  I can actually justify picking him and running him now especially in that unit of tartoros terminators 

The need to procure a spartan is ever growing. 

-------------------------------

It's a little sad there wasant a preview of Dorn at the weekender , really looking forward to that model. 

[Slips]

Phalanx Warders are 10 man Base and go up to 20.

 

The WS Buff means that Dorn is WS9 With them in tow though! Potentially hilarious in combat vs other primarchs as all but Angron and Combat Round 3-4 Guilliman will be hitting you on a 4+ and only ever wounding you on a 3+ As well.

 

With a 4++ to boot, he's going to be decently hard to kill. Though he is better off with Storm Shield Tartaros Termies since they're killier and more resilient though the Warders have bodies on their side.

 

Sigismund, too, is actually a better fit with Shielded Tartaros Termies now that they can Sweep.

 

With the new RoW that makes the Primarch an HQ thus dodging the LoW Points Limitation (though this RoW does lose its LoW Slot) and thus making Phalanx Warders and Terminators Troops, you can have a pretty beefy Dorn-Led Army.

 

You then take Templar Squads in Land Raiders to turn 3+ saves into mincemeat while your heavy hitters do the rest.

 

Mostly helps with points juggling in that you'll possibly save a couple-hundred in HQ selections and no longer worry about the LoW limit; though at 385 that wasnt much of an issue anyways.

[Ishagu]

Slips, does the new RoW making a Primarch into a HQ actually force you to take Veterans as your troops, or are they just an option alongside regular troops choices?

[Slips]

Slips, does the new RoW making a Primarch into a HQ actually force you to take Veterans as your troops, or are they just an option alongside regular troops choices?

I dont know, sadly.

 

All I've read is that the Primarch is HQ and if he dies all your units can no longer score and can only Deny from then-on.

[Ishagu]

Dorn and Guilliman would make excellent HQ choices due to their tangible and always useful army buffs, on top of their combat prowess.