[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[MakoBoy88]

What do we think about this

 

+++ Knight Errant + Polux (2505pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Alexis Polux

····Master of the Legion [The Stone Gauntlet]

 

Knight-Errant [Librarian, Narthecium, Psychic Mastery Level 2]

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Breacher Siege Squad [3x Graviton Gun, 14x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines, Legion Vexilla]

····Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Breacher Siege Squad [14x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, 3x Melta gun]

····Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon]

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecarion Detachment [Legion Apothecary, Legion Apothecary]

 

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Legion Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion Rapier Weapons Battery]

 

Legion Terminator Squad [Legion Spartan Assault Tank, 4x Legion Terminators, 4x Power Fist, Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon]

····Legion Terminator Sergeant [Power Fist]

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Legion Heavy Support Squad [Autocannons, 9x Legion Space Marines]

····Legion Sergeant [Augury Scanner]

 

Legion Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron

····Legion Vindicator Tank [Laser Destroyer Array]

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon

····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard, Leviathan Siege Drill]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, VII: Imperial Fists]

 

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

[Slips]

I assume the Grav-Flux Bombard is a Melta Lance since both cost the same?

 

Otherwise, the list looks good enough to me though really, try and get a Bunker for the HSS Squad.

[MakoBoy88]

I could drop a Rapier for it, and some toys.

 

And no, it is the Grav Flux because that's what my one has :(

[MakoBoy88]

And a Bunker is the thing that has 8 Fire Points all facing the same way? 2 holes with 4 models firing each?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like it but I'd find a way to get power fists for the Breacher sergeants.

[Slips]

Yes, that thing.

[MakoBoy88]

@Slips, yeah man that thing is awesome, and very doable.

 

@Black Orange, Yeah I would like that too, very Imperial Fist'y, and will deal with equally opposed Artificer Armoured Sargeants.

If I drop the HSS down to 8 (As that's all I can fire anyway) and drop a Rapier I can get both.

[AfroCampbell]

Did anyone else just realise that the new RoW allows you to teleport Sigismund? :D 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How so and does he have to joined with terminators? I love the possibilities !

[Lord Blackwood]

The new right of war might be really good but there's still a lot of things to consider

 

If people pass thier blind test they are still firing at you

 

Reserves manipulation

 

Shrouded is nice but stuff like a Typhon will just wash yer unit regardless

 

I want to give it a shot when it's up in battle scribe tho. Cause it effectively allows you to save points on transports and if you can touch down safely and run into cover yer kinda golden.

 

I've never seen deep strike being terribly useful for close combat units tho.

[Slips]

A Command Rhino is pretty much mandatory if you want to run the rite - however, all vehicles have to start in reserves which is a MAJOR bummer.

 

A Proteus with Exploratory Augury Web for +1 to your own reserves coupled with the Command Rhinos Re-roll means they're all likely to drop in when needed; hopefully inside that no scatter bubble.

 

But my main problem is Vehicles starting in reserves and not getting T1 Reserves either. Those two factors alone push this one, for me anyways, from being a a potentially very potent RoW to one thats better off as an Allied Detachment.

[Soldier of Dorn]

Haven't posted in this thread before because I suck at tactical and army list shenanigans, but I need your help, guys. As some of you may know, I recently began working on an Imperial Fists army, and I wanted to consult with the rest of you to help build a 1500 point list to use as a short-term goal for the army. While none of my other armies have been greatly effective on the tabletop due each in part to the fact that I normally play with what are considered low tier-factions (Tyranids and CSM), that I've mostly been playing against Tau and Eldar, and that I much prefer a fluffy army over a army designed to win (Never used a single Flyrant in my Tyranids! Never plan to, either!) It's never been a big deal, though, 'cause I'm primarily interested in the background and modeling aspect of the hobby over the gaming stuff.

 

However, while this hasn't really been a concern in the past, I want something different with my Fists. I still want them to be true to the background I've created for them, and I want to spend time on each model and make them individuals, I want them to be actually effective on the tabletop. This is due both in part with me becoming fed up with losing every game I play (except for one, but that was under... interesting circumstances.) and the fact that the Fists have some damn good rules in 30k. So, yeah, I want them to be effective on the tabletop.

 

I was thinking of not using a Rite of War with this particular army, but instead simply using a Vigilator as my compulsory HQ choice, who would be accompanied by either a unit of Sniper Veterans or Seekers mounted in a Rhino. Compulsory Troops would be 2 15-man True Grit Tactical Squads, probably backed up by a 5 man Support Squad. I want to include a couple Vindicators, too.

 

I suck at this sort of thing though, and my list ideas have several problems, notably a lack of effective anti-aircraft weaponry (which isn't a huge problem in my local meta, but still a bit poo,) so if anyone has any critiques, I beseech you to assist me in actually building an effective army.

[Slips]

Just how effective do you want to be, really?

 

Because there's building a Themed Army thats Optimized and theres building a Competitive Army. Similar yet different.

 

One is to take almost whatever you want but to make sure they have a clear, defined purpose that, over the course of a game, they can be readily expected to accomplish.

 

The Other is to make the army using the most effective and efficient units you have access to.

 

+++

 

Now, Tac Squads main goal is to score objectives and shoot other MEQ. They're mostly a tax that can sometimes be dodged but otherwise dont serve much of a purpose in a list. Sinking points into them that will never really increase their effectiveness is points you can spend better. Case and point, Extra CCW. Tac Squads aren't meant for CC unless you're a World Eater and even then, they only get away with it by having potent CC Buffs.

 

So, lets use an example.

 

15 Man Tactical Squad /w Extra CCW and no other upgrades is 230 points.

10 Man Tac Vet Squad /w Furious Charge and 3 Power Weapons no other upgrades is also 230 points.

 

Tactical Squad CC output at 15 men with extra CCW:

• 30 S4 Ap- Attacks vs MEQ = 2.5 Wounds on Average

Tac Vet Squad Output:

• Power Swords: 9 S4 Ap3 Attacks vs MEQ = 2.250 wounds on Average
• Power Axes: 9 S5 Ap2 Attacks vs MEQ = 3 wounds on Average
• Power Mauls: 9 S6 Ap4 Attacks vs MEQ = 1.250 wounds on Average
• Chainsword & BP: 21 S4 Ap1 Attacks vs MEQ = 1.750 wounds on Average

Totaling by Weapon Type + CS&BP:

• Swords: 4 Wounds
• Axes: 4.750 Wounds
• Maul: 3 Wounds

This is without accounting for Furious Charge on the Vets nor the +1A for either Squad would get for Charging. So in either Scenario, the Tac Vets win out and can be made troops with POTL, Chosen Duty or Primarchs Chosen but are scoring in every scenario due to Implacable Advance. All you're really losing out is # of Possible Bolter Shots.

 

But wait, we also have Templar Brethren. For 235 you get 7 Templar with a Solarite Power Gauntlet on the Champion. This Yields, without charge bonuses:

• 18 S4 Ap3 Attacks hitting on 3s (WS5) vs MEQ = 6 Wounds on Average
• 3 S8 Ap1 Attacks hitting on 3s vs MEQ = 1.667 Wounds on Average

Total of 7.667 Wounds with Artificer Armor Innately and Furious Charge. Less Bodies, more Quality. They just lose out in the shooting department by not having Bolters and requiring an Assault Vehicle Investment. They are also Troops with Sigismund Present.

 

+++

 

The above is why you only really see World Eaters do Tacticals w/ Extra CCW because they can get 4-5 Attacks Per Marine which can be buffed to S5 by their new Apothecary Character with a possible +1A on top of all that.

 

So, if you want a Combat unit, dont invest in Tactical Marines. Invest in them being able to do their job: Score Objectives.

 

This usually amounts to the Following: A Rhino to make them immune to Bolters and/or give them a shield vs heavier firepower, Artificer Armor on a Sergeant to tank shots with, a Vexilla to re-roll morale and, if you've later on got the points free, a Melta Bomb and/or Power Weapon on the Sergeant; maybe a Fist instead.

 

Its also the main reason why I straight up do not use Tac Marines and instead use Tac Vets. Because, while they are capped at 10 Bodies, they are capable of much more overall and with our BS5 Bolters, much more potent with Shooting thanks to Sniper which gives them a much larger threat range than regular tacs.

 

+++

 

Now, I'm not saying you can't / shouldn't take them but just be aware that investing into them to do any other job than Cap an objective is usually points that could be better spent elsewhere.

 

So, really, just post up a tentative list idea and we can start working from there.

 

For Example, using the few units you've speculated on:

 

+++ Pycho's Imperial Fists (1500pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1500pts) ++

 

+ HQ (240pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (125pts) [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon, Refractor Field]

··Consul [Vigilator] (Joins Seekers)

 

Legion Centurion (115pts) [Artificer Armour, Refractor Field]

··Consul [Master of Signal] (joins Plasma Guns)

 

+ Troops (665pts) +

 

Legion Tactical Squad (220pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla]

··Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (220pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla]

··Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Support Squad (225pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 4x Legion Space Marines, Plasma Guns]

··Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs]

 

+ Fast Attack (335pts) +

 

Legion Seeker Squad (335pts) [4x Combi-weapon, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 8x Legion Seeker Space Marines]

··Legion Strike Leader [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

+ Heavy Support (260pts) +

 

Legion Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron (130pts)

··Legion Vindicator Tank [Laser Destroyer Array]

 

Legion Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron (130pts)

··Legion Vindicator Tank [Laser Destroyer Array]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, VII: Imperial Fists]

 

Could be something you can run. You're whole army is pretty much BS5 Shooting with your Seekers and Vigilator going up to BS6 when shooting their Bolters because why not.

 

The only reason your Sergeants have Power Weapons (Axes) is to be able to deal with 2+ Armor Sergeants that they might find themselves in a Challenge with. Thankfully, we re-roll all to-hits in a challenge.

 

+++

 

But you then add on 500 points and you can end up with lists like these: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-imperial-fists-tactics/?p=4325727

Edited March 10, 2016 by Slipstreams
Typos.

[Lord Blackwood]

I have a legitimate A or B Choice to make 
( The ruling on if someone brings knights  to the event is that they can only take 50% knights other 50% blackshields and they can only take FW knights  also you get melta bombs for free on any unit that can take em) 

A

+++ Templar Turnpike (2000pts) +++
 
++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2000pts) ++
 
+ HQ (230pts) +
 
Sigismund (230pts)
Master of the Legion [Armoured Breakthrough]
 
+ Troops (500pts) +
 
Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron (100pts)
Legion Predator Tank [Dozer Blade, Heavy Bolters]
 
Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron (100pts)
Legion Predator Tank [Dozer Blade, Heavy Bolters]
 
Templar Brethren (300pts) [7x Combat Shield, 7x Templar Brethren]
Chapter Champion [Combat Shield, Solarite Power Gauntlet]
 
+ Elites (360pts) +
 
Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (180pts) [Dozer Blade, Lascannons]
 
Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (180pts) [Dozer Blade, Lascannons]
 
+ Heavy Support (540pts) +
 
Legion Spartan Assault Tank (345pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield]
 
Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (195pts) [Dozer Blade]
 
+ Legion +
 
Legion Astartes [Loyalist, VII: Imperial Fists]
 
+ Lord of War (370pts) +
 
War Machine Detachment (370pts)
Legion Typhon Heavy Siege Tank [Armoured Ceramite]

 
 

or 


B
 

+++ Parking Lot Paladins (2000pts) +++
 
++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2000pts) ++
 
+ HQ (345pts) +
 
Alexis Polux (165pts)
Master of the Legion [Armoured Breakthrough]
 
Master of Armour (180pts)
Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [Dozer Blade, Lascannons]
 
+ Troops (200pts) +
 
Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron (100pts)
Legion Predator Tank [Dozer Blade, Heavy Bolters]
 
Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron (100pts)
Legion Predator Tank [Dozer Blade, Heavy Bolters]
 
+ Elites (895pts) +
 
Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon (170pts)
Cortus Dreadnought [Heavy Conversion Beamer (One only)]
 
Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (180pts) [Dozer Blade, Lascannons]
 
Legion Terminator Squad (545pts) [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Chainfist, 4x Legion Terminators, 3x Power Fist]
Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield]
 
+ Heavy Support (190pts) +
 
Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (190pts)
 
+ Legion +
 
Legion Astartes [Loyalist, VII: Imperial Fists]
 
+ Lord of War (370pts) +
 
War Machine Detachment (370pts)
Legion Typhon Heavy Siege Tank [Armoured Ceramite]

I blame Slips for giving me difficult decisions  Edited March 10, 2016 by Bladewolf

[Lord Blackwood]

As an aside  ( since my last question seems to have killed the thread) Slips you recently ran warders right  ?   Did you play them with the  +1 ws buff ?  Do you think they can be as useful a unit charging as they are being charged? 

[Slips]

I played them with the +1WS Buff.

 

Honestly, they did more work when charged vs charging but that might've been because of my rolls.

 

Its a Marginal difference honestly:

• 2 Attacks at S5 Ap2 Hitting on 4s vs MEQ = 0.667 wounds
• 1 Attack at S5 Ap2 Hitting on 3s vs MEQ = 0.444 wounds

You trade quantity for quality, really.

 

So on average you aren't really going to notice the difference which is pretty big since +1A on the charge is usually a huge deal. And because of Defensive Grenades, you're always fighting an enemy without charge benefits.

 

And thats been my experience with them as well. Unless you're up against TEQ (or equivalent Legion CC unit), you've pretty much always got the upperhand in CC with them.

 

The 5+ Invulnerable save in CC also helps a bunch to mitigate any Ap3 or better damage heading your way.

 

Both My Squads were: 10men, 2 Plasma Guns, 4 Axes, Sarge with Artificer, Thunderhammer. The Plasma Guns were pretty handy with softening up targets or possibly getting a kill or two in overwatch and they did decent work.

[MakoBoy88]

Having just invested in Tartaros Termies, i feel as though i have shelved the Phalanx warders too early.

[Lord Blackwood]

See I want to put together a unit of warder a quite badly but I feel like I wouldn't play them well since I lean on sigismund so much. Though if I'm trying to bring polux to open up my tank rite of war. Warder a in a spartan can straight up camp an objective while being very dangerous and difficult to dislodge

[MakoBoy88]

Ok boys. Simply.

 

Do I drop the Leviathan? It's so cool, but so expensive.

[Lord Blackwood]

I'd take a Typhon over it anyday

[MakoBoy88]

hmm that's not a bad idea, and almost exactly the points haha. Nearly.

[Charlo]

Never. Never drop the Leviathan - unless it's coming out of a pod!

 

But that's me, I'm a dread head and I hate the Typhon with a passion, it just lacks fun...

[MakoBoy88]

Yeah I'm inclined to agree. And with a Knight Errant already, adding in Price of Failure is a huge VO gamble every game.

 

But for the price of the Leviathan plus pod I could get a squadron of 3 Vindicators.

[MakoBoy88]

I have managed to afford 3 Vindicators. 1 Laser Destroyer and 2 Demolisher with Machjne Spirit.

[exsanguis]

After seeing a few ideas for Armoured Breakthrough, what do you think of this?

 

New Roster (2000pts)

Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness)

• HQ
  • Master of Armour
    • Legion Sicaran Battle Tank

      Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons

  • Sigismund
    • Master of the Legion

      Armoured Breakthrough

• Troops
  • Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron
    • Legion Predator Tank

      Heavy Bolters

  • Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron
    • Legion Predator Tank

      Heavy Bolters

  • Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron
    • Legion Predator Tank

      Heavy Bolters

  • Templar Brethren

    7x Combat Shield, Melta Bombs, 7x Templar Brethren

    • Chapter Champion

      Combat Shield, Solarite Power Gauntlet

• Elites
  • Legion Sicaran Battle Tank

    Lascannons

• Heavy Support
  • Legion Spartan Assault Tank

    Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield

  • Legion Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron
    • Legion Vindicator Tank

      Laser Destroyer Array

    • Legion Vindicator Tank

      Laser Destroyer Array

  • Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer
• Legion
  • Legion Astartes

    Loyalist, VII: Imperial Fists