[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[Lord Blackwood]

This s indeed pretty bothersome news if its true It also means I need to go break the arms off a bunch of my terminators which  I  will not be pleased about. 

[K3nn3rs]

I've made those points in my reply to FW.

 

For me it seems a rather lazy answer. I'll phone on Monday to discuss in a bit more detail. I'm also at Warhammer World next week so I'll see if I can speak to someone for a more detailed/ thorough explanation.

[Obscura]

I'mma build my own Tartaros Terminators, but with hookers and blackjack ( and Vigil Pattern Stormshields )!

Edited August 26, 2016 by Obscura

[IronDrake28]

I feel like we need a hotline to ring the actual designers and have a chat sometimes. But that would be a horrific idea :P

[Lythronax]

No tartaros armour? Really? Apart from anything else, there's a picture of an imperial fists terminator sergeant wearing tartaros armour in Conquest, page 160.

[Soldier of Dorn]

No tartaros armour? Really? Apart from anything else, there's a picture of an imperial fists terminator sergeant wearing tartaros armour in Conquest, page 160.

 

Oh yeah, forgot about that! This guy!

 

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/3/30/IF_Termi_Sgt_Tartarus_Pattern.jpg

 

Still, pretty much a typical day with FW rules, right?

[Lythronax]

Yeah, him! Not really surprised, I just wish they'd come up with a better fluff justification for not allowing tartaros to take shields.

 

Anyway, I'll probably end up building a unit of tartaros with shields, just because they'd look awesome.

[Elzender]

Well, that certainly sucks. Anyways, I'm creating my shield-toting termies mixing GK and stormcast eternals, so it's not that much of an issue, if they can't be counted as tartaros I'll count them as indomitus.

[Charlo]

Why didn't they just say "well the shield wasn't designed to work with those suits and they aren't in the rules because of this"

[Obscura]

Moving away from this particularly sore subject ( I'm still going to build Tartaros with Shields, Dorn-Senpai will notice me. )

What's everyones opinion on the Mastadon? 

 

I'm sorely tempted to just fill it with Tartaros Terminators ( WITH SHIELDS ), a Primus Medicae and Sigismund. . . 

 

It would be so sexy, a giant points sink and I hate making friends anyway.

[AfroCampbell]

Moving away from this particularly sore subject ( I'm still going to build Tartaros with Shields, Dorn-Senpai will notice me. )

 

What's everyones opinion on the Mastadon? 

 

I'm sorely tempted to just fill it with Tartaros Terminators ( WITH SHIELDS ), a Primus Medicae and Sigismund. . . 

 

It would be so sexy, a giant points sink and I hate making friends anyway.

 

I think I love it, however I dont know whether or not I could justify picking this as my Lord of War over a Primarch or Fellglaive..... like its amazing, but personally I would prefer a Spartan to transport so then I can also take Dorn.... just my thoughts.

[helterskelter]

The thing with that mastodon, it starts on the board, and it can transport up to 2 dreads (box and contemptor varieties) as well as "20" other blokes.

It can defend itself against airstrikes better than any other individual lord of war, can blast it's way through near enough anything, and it's a big pain to remove without some dedication.

It's a big chunk of points yes, but if you need that objective or you need something or someone gone, the Mastodon and it's select choice of occupants are going to see that job done.

[Charlo]

And as it's a super heavy you're Going to get those inside to a pretty decent position before its dead, then the fun begins.

 

Cortus coming from inside it are plain nasty.

[Kisada]

Sorry to go back to a sore subject ... but if FW does indeed stick to the ruling of cataphractii and indomitus only ...

Would it be ok for me to use my 40k templar terminator squad in 30k?

Should I fist them up some? Any suggestions? Add some yellow? Some fist decals?

I have 4 with storm shields and 3 with lightning claws.

[Terminus]

I don't think you need to do anything, say they are an elite formation of Sigismund's Chosen, hence the black.

 

No tartaros armour? Really? Apart from anything else, there's a picture of an imperial fists terminator sergeant wearing tartaros armour in Conquest, page 160.

Well, they didnt' say no Tartaros armour, so this citation is meaningless. Fists can take Tartaros armour, just guys in Tartaros armour cannot take storm shields.  I am assuming they are just trying to avoid the perfect rule combo of 2+/3++/sweep.

[Flint13]

^^Why wouldn't it be ok?

 

Indomitus was around, Fist Veterans wear a lot of black. It's a win/win ^_^

 

 

I am assuming they are just trying to avoid the perfect rule combo of 2+/3++/sweep.

 

 That's probably exactly it. You don't get everything.

 

Sweep or 3++, pick one. 

[Slips]

Because HEAVEN FORBID  that my 525 point (before transport) 10 man WS4 1W Terminator Squad (Assuming Fists and Shields) be able to sweep non-fearless squads.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Kisada]

@Flint13 and @Terminus: thanks. I think I will at least re-base them to match the rest of the legion

[Flint13]

Because HEAVEN FORBID  that my 525 point (before transport) 10 man WS4 1W Terminator Squad (Assuming Fists and Shields) be able to sweep non-fearless squads.

When you put it like that, it is a little funnier :lol: I can hear you throwing your hands up.

 

But I get where you're coming from.

[Obscura]

 

blah blah blah

 

I think I love it, however I dont know whether or not I could justify picking this as my Lord of War over a Primarch or Fellglaive..... like its amazing, but personally I would prefer a Spartan to transport so then I can also take Dorn.... just my thoughts.

 

 

I have a fondness for the Spartan, and I can see where you're coming from in regards to having Dorn or a Fellglaive as the aforementioned are amazing in their own right. If you're able to create synergy with the rest of your force, you're going to be sitting pretty, especially if you're able to combine Dorn with Aetos Dios. Given Imperial Fist options, it definitely makes it hard to choose given all the new toys that pop up from time to time.

 

The thing with that mastodon, it starts on the board, and it can transport up to 2 dreads (box and contemptor varieties) as well as "20" other blokes.

It can defend itself against airstrikes better than any other individual lord of war, can blast it's way through near enough anything, and it's a big pain to remove without some dedication.

It's a big chunk of points yes, but if you need that objective or you need something or someone gone, the Mastodon and it's select choice of occupants are going to see that job done.

 

Absolutely, you aim it at something and you can almost guarantee your intended target is going to die in a fire and be enough of a fire magnet that the rest of your forces are able to get into position with relative ease, even when it is disabled ( and not blown up ), the Mastodon can still be used as a ruined building with two access points, so it can in some ways also be a pseudo forward bunker.

[Soldier of Dorn]

No tartaros armour? Really? Apart from anything else, there's a picture of an imperial fists terminator sergeant wearing tartaros armour in Conquest, page 160.

Well, they didnt' say no Tartaros armour, so this citation is meaningless. Fists can take Tartaros armour, just guys in Tartaros armour cannot take storm shields.  I am assuming they are just trying to avoid the perfect rule combo of 2+/3++/sweep.

 

Actually, they did say no Tartaros armor for Fists. It's the main reason I'm saying this email is total horsecrap. If they had simply said that Tartaros couldn't take storm shields, and left it at that, but their justification is utterly ridiculous. Read the full text again, and their justification for diallowing Storm Shields:

 

hi,

Thank you for your email. The Imperial Fists were the one of the first Legions to get the Indomitus Pattern Terminator armour ( 40k terminator Armour) and the Vigil Pattern storm Shields are what evolve in to the 40k storm shields. It is for this reason that they can only use normal terminator armour ( indomitus) or Cataphractii Terminator Armour, they don't use Tartaros terminator Armour, which is why the Vigil Pattern Storm shield can't be fitted to it.

 

To rephrase, they are effectively saying that the Fists only use Indomitus and Cataphractii armor and they do not use Tartaros armor at all. It is blatantly there in the email, and to say it is not present is a total falsehood.  The reasoning is flawed too: if Vigil-pattern Storm Shields were developed alongside Indomitus, why do Cataphractii get access to it if Tartaros do not? It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

In any event, I'm (probably) done with this debate. I'm getting passionate about it, and I want to stop before I go to far.

[Terminus]

There is nothing like that in the rules, so I would feel free to ignore their interpretation.  The only relevant portion of the email is an informal confirmation that the rules apply as written for fitting Vigils onto Tartaros.

[Lord Blackwood]

The fellglaive is an ALRIGHT superheavy

Mine has performed well but when your opponent knows how to play against it then it's less powerful

 

The falchion is .... Meh

 

 

I would argue that you may have more fun games running Dorn as opposed to the big tanks

 

Cept the Typhon I think of the choices available it's the strongest superheavy tank.

[AfroCampbell]

 

No tartaros armour? Really? Apart from anything else, there's a picture of an imperial fists terminator sergeant wearing tartaros armour in Conquest, page 160.

Well, they didnt' say no Tartaros armour, so this citation is meaningless. Fists can take Tartaros armour, just guys in Tartaros armour cannot take storm shields.  I am assuming they are just trying to avoid the perfect rule combo of 2+/3++/sweep.

 

Actually, they did say no Tartaros armor for Fists. It's the main reason I'm saying this email is total horsecrap. If they had simply said that Tartaros couldn't take storm shields, and left it at that, but their justification is utterly ridiculous. Read the full text again, and their justification for diallowing Storm Shields:

 

hi,

Thank you for your email. The Imperial Fists were the one of the first Legions to get the Indomitus Pattern Terminator armour ( 40k terminator Armour) and the Vigil Pattern storm Shields are what evolve in to the 40k storm shields. It is for this reason that they can only use normal terminator armour ( indomitus) or Cataphractii Terminator Armour, they don't use Tartaros terminator Armour, which is why the Vigil Pattern Storm shield can't be fitted to it.

 

To rephrase, they are effectively saying that the Fists only use Indomitus and Cataphractii armor and they do not use Tartaros armor at all. It is blatantly there in the email, and to say it is not present is a total falsehood.  The reasoning is flawed too: if Vigil-pattern Storm Shields were developed alongside Indomitus, why do Cataphractii get access to it if Tartaros do not? It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

In any event, I'm (probably) done with this debate. I'm getting passionate about it, and I want to stop before I go to far.

 

 

I have gotta be honest that email reply sounds like something someone just came up with in the office with no thought just to justify why the rules are the way they are, fluff-wise it makes no sense, as the IF (who were big proponents of Termie armour) were key in developing Indomitus and therefore would likely have fielded all armour variants in order to learn from them to develop a new one. 

Regardless they are also pictured and mentioned in fluff including the HH books as being equipped thus.

Overall I think it would be safe to disregard the fluff justification in the email as being crap, and accept the rules as stated in the email.

[Terminus]

Yeah, I'm more fond of the "prototype shield generators are hefty and slow down Tartaros enough that you may as well use the much cheaper and simpler to produce Indomitus" fluff justification, but otherwise I see absolutely zero reason why an Imperial Fist player couldn't field Tartaros armor.

 

The unicorn of 2+/3++/sweeping can be achieved by Salamander Praetors (who also have Eternal Warrior), so it's not unheard of.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Terminus