Nico's Treatise on Bayonet Stabbing(2nd Tourney rpt done p3)

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I figured I might as well start my battle reports now, and you can follow my warm-up games and the action in Astronomi-con and beyond. So were are now in "pre-season" and I played my first ever game of 7th (and my first game since 5th) today versus the owner of the FLGS just down the street from my office.

"PRE-SEASON" BATTLE 1: 19 JUNE 2014 VERSUS WHITE SCARS

Armies:

WHITE SCARS

Chapter Master with bike, artificer armour, power axe

Librarian Lvl 2 (not sure what other wargear if any as he never used it)

9x Bikers with power fist (sgt), x2 Gravguns and one attack bike with Multimelta

9x Bikers with power fist (sgt), x2 Gravguns and one attack bike with Multimelta

9x Bikers with power fist (sgt), x2 Gravguns and one attack bike with Multimelta

5 Tactical marines with missile launcher in a Razorback with TLLC

5 Tactical marines with missile launcher in a Razorback with TLLC

LORD INQUISITOR SOULIS' CRUSADE COHORT DEMEDA

Lord Inquisitor Soulis (Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor) w/ power armour, power sword, 3x servo skulls

Inquisitorial Warband - x2 crusader, 2x Death Cult Assassin, 1x Arco Flagellant, 2x Acolytes, Munitorum Priest, Land Raider

DKoK Quartermaster Cadre

Militarum Tempestus Commissar

Hydra

Lt. Khodkievich's Platoon - DKoK PCS w/ 2x Flamer, Platoon standard, power sword; PIS w/ metlagun; PIS w/ Flamer

SLt. Golunski's Grenadiers - 2x meltagun, heavy flamer, power sword, Storm Chimera

Inquisitorial Storm Troopers - Scions (10) w/ 2x meltagun

8 Death Riders

Demolisher

DEPLOYMENT:

He deployed first. I thought it was odd that he bunched his bikers together seemingly without fear of my Demolisher. I discovered that White Scars get 2+ jink save thanks to their chapter tactics and night fighting on turn 1 so I guess that's why. Anyway, deployment was corners, and there were six objectives a mixture of point values:

TURN 1

He had first turn, and as noted, it was Night Fighting -- he had rolled the Warlord Trait that allowed him to choose whether it was night or not, and also gave his troops night-fighting. Lord Inuisitor Soulis rolled-up Adamantium Will for his Inquisitor Warlord trait. His Librarian rolled on the telekenisis he got Dominate and Hallucinations.

His bikes basically all charged straight forward. His Razorback on the right immobilized itself trying to get out of the ruins it deployed in and the Razor in the middle sat still while the tacs inside along with the librarian got out and moved forward.

In the psychic phase his librarian cast Hallucination on Lt. Khodkievich's PCS in the woods. I declined to deny the witch, saving my dice for Dominate. He rolled well and the squad unceremoniously bludgeoned the lieutenant into unconsciousness as they hallucinated that he was possessed by a daemon. Even Commissar Drurary was caught in the hallucination (or maybe he just decided to get his own back from the time he tried to summarily execute the Lieutenant thinking he was running away but was actually going to get fresh troops). He Dominated the PIS below the woods.

The rest of his shooting was not overwhelming, but effective. He took a hull point off the Demolisher via a lascannon glance, and dropped his Chapter Master's orbital bombardment on the Land Raider, failing to do any damage. He penetrated the Grenadier chimera behind the Land Raider, but only shook it. He wiped out the PIS squad in front of the Demolisher with bolter fire.

On my turn the Land Raider trundled forward at combat speed, as did the Demolisher. The Death Riders moved to within 10" of the bikers on the right and the Hydra manouvred around the bastion to the left. I decided it was safer to keep Soulis inside his ride for now. The dominated PIS failed their leadership test and the Grenadier chimera moved around a bit (in hindsight I really should have moved the Land Raider at Cruising Speed to open up room for other vehicles to manouvre) In shooting I unleashed the Demolisher and got five hits on the centre biker squad. Five wounds, too, and then he rolled all his 2+ jink saves (apparently he got +1 for night, and then some other bonus for them being White Scars, yielding 2+). They Hydra did one wound which was saved. Nothing else really.

The Death Riders made their charge. One of them died to overwatch (multimelta insta-gib), but I still had 19 attacks ... and rolled only 4 hits on 4+ to hit! They still killed three bikers, though. In return his power fist sergeant insta-gibbed two riders (Death Riders have two wounds each, but one was -1 wound from overwatch) making it a tie.

TURN 2

HIs bikes all continued to advance. Not much other movement that I can recall.

Psychic phase he again dominated the squad below the woods, but the PCS denied the witch like champs when he tried to make them hallucinate again. Now Commissar Drurary had seized control of the platoon and was going to show them how things got done.

In the shooting phased the bike squad with the chapter master (the one that my opponent is moving in the picture below) PWNed my Land Raider. This was my first encounter with Grav Guns. They are rather disgusting. But at least they only immobilized it and shaved off hull points. All his other shooting was unable to destroy or shake it.

He glanced another hull point of the Demolisher and that was about it for shooting.

In assault, his bikers in the middle assaulted the Demolisher, wrecking it with the power fist (grenades did naught). The Chapter Master and bikers assaulted the Land Raider doing nothing. The bikers engaged with my rough riders killed one or two, my riders now only Str 3 and needing 6s to wound did nothing, broke, and were swept.

In my turn, the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers arrived and the deep struck behind the Librarian and his rhino. I rolled badly for scatter but fortunately not so bad that they were off the table. The remainder of the platoon moved into position to assault the bikers who wrecked the tank, while the Grenadiers got out and snuck between the Bastion and Land Raider to take some shots. The Hyrdra drove towards the objective in the woods. Lord Inquisitor Soulis got out the side door and readied his attack.

In shooting, the Grenadiers killed a biker or two. The Scions, too far to hit the Razorback thanks to their poor scatter, wiped out the tacticals and left the Librarian with one wound. They weren't even in rapid fire range. Someone forget to tell them that Hotshot Lasguns suck.

In Assault Lord Inquisitor Soulis launched his attack. One crusader died to overwatch and my inability to roll a single 3+. Then, as I said to my opponent, "well, it's not the right thing to do game wise, but it's the right thing to do fluff wise, so my inquisitor is calling out your heretical chapter master". Soulis landed two wounds but the artificer armour blocked them both, in return the chapter master wounded Soulis twice. His troops attacked and the Crusader tanked everything like a champ. Then the retinue (striking at initiative 1 thanks to the woods and no grenades) went to work. The Death Cult Assassins were insane. The Arco Flagellant wasn't too shabby either and his Str 5 came in real handy against the bikes. The Acolytes did nothing but the priests battle hymns (took the re-roll to wound) were key. I brutalized him for 5 or 6 dead bikers. He rolled leadership at -3/4 but rolled a 2 and a 3 for the pass -- I believe this was a turning point in the game because with initiative 6 my DCA may well have swept him if he fled.

The platoon troops did their duty and died gloriously, losing enough men to break and run and then get swept by his bikers (commissar died in the combat). I think they took a single biker with them.

TURN 3

In his next movement phase his bikers moved towards the Land Raider, and the other unengaged bikes took off towards the Storm Troopers

In the psychic phase he Dominated the Storm Troopers (I let it go) and then they denied the witch big time with four 6s when he tried to hallucinate them.

The bikers wrecked the Land Raider with grav guns, and the bikers whittled down the Storm Troopers a bit -- enough for a morale check but they held.

In assault, the henchmen whittled his bikers down to just the sergeant, but the chapter master laid a massive beating on Soulis, taking him out of action. The two acolytes also bought a piece of the farm when they threw themselves over Soulis' prone form. This resulted in a lost combat for me, a bad leadership roll resulting in flight, and a worse sweeping advance roll resulting in the henchmen being swept. If I had attacked someone other than the Chapter Master's squad they would have beaten face but even then they didn't do so poorly at all and were one good roll of his and one bad roll of mine away from carrying the day.

Come my turn, Lt. Khodkievich arrived via ongoing reserves thanks to Unstoppable Advance:

The Hydra attempted a tank shock on the chapter master but he passed. The Stormies moved into rapid-fire range of the bikers closing on them.

Everyone around those bikers shot at them, whittling them down to just a few. The Storm Troopers downed a few more bikers (again forgetting that hotshot lasguns "suck").

Then the grand assault!

That platoon beat those bikers down ... and then we had to call the game because the store had some event starting and we had run out of time (we lost an hour at the beginning of the game as there was a sudden influx of customers that the owner had to serve).

TACTICAL REVIEW:

First, after the "pre-season" battles, I'm going to start doing a more narrative style Batrep which I think you'll enjoy more. But for these preparatory battles I'm going to focus on tactics and lessons learned without letting the fluff get in the way too much.

This was my first time against White Scars. They were really able to hem me in and keep me stuck in my own deployment zone. It would have been even worse if the servo skulls didn't deny them their scout moves. Not sure what else I could have done to fight out of that other than move the Land Raider forward more aggressively and forget about being able to shoot. Maybe make use of the smoke launchers, too.

This was one of those games were there was no real stand-out MVP unit, although I would say that Soulis and his warband laid down the exact sort of hurting I want from them. If those had been regular marines instead of bikers or most anything else they would have seriously ruined my opponent's day. I was actually a bit hesistant to charge them wondering whether they could handle that unit but they definitely could. As noted earlier, he was very close to fleeing and possible being swept then the objective in the woods worth 4 VP would have been all mine, I would have had slay the warlord not him, and the lay of the land would be totally different.

If we had played a fourth and even a fifth turn, much could have changed. I had enough troops to handle his lone chapter master and sergeant I think (a full platoon, Quartermaster, plus Grenadiers and their chimera). Reaching out and touching those Razorbacks would have been a problem, but with enough time could have run over and hit them with melta and then he would have had only 5 tacticals and about 4 bikes and I think I still would have had the bulk of that platoon and the Grenadiers since carapace armour proved fairly resilient through the game against bolters. Maybe the Quartermaster would have proved his worth keeping the Grenadiers going.

My biggest concern is that 150 point of my army did absolutely nothing all game -- the Quartermaster Cadre and the Hydra. I really could have used a CCS for more orders but have no idea where to scrounge 25 points from this list. The Quartermaster cadre is really a useless unit. I don't want their 6+ FNP for the platoon and the Grenadiers were mounted much of the game. They are as pathetic in close combat as DKoK get, and cannot shoot. The Hyrdra showed me that it is really as worthless as people say if there are no flyers about. I am wondering if I should just go with the ignore flyers tactic?

FINAL THOUGHTS:

1. Scions are actually quite good. The ability to deep strike them is a fantastic bit of tactical flexibility to have. And mine haven't read the interwebs to get the inside scoop on their hotshot lasguns. They killed close to their points worth but more importantly diverted 1/2 of his remaining army away to deal with them. There were still 7/10 left at the end of the battle so who knows what else would have happened (although their meltaguns were sadly gone -- I should hide them in the inner circle next time)

2. Death Cult Assassins are out of control. But I guess we already knew that.

3. Death Riders have the potential to be a pretty heavy hitter on the charge if I can manage to roll better than 4 hits on 19 attacks. They're nice and fast and they're definitely in. Strength 6+ weapons are definitely a problem for them.

4. Yes, Guard -- or at least DKoK -- can do close combat and its not as neutered as I expected in 7th.

5. Be way more aggressive with the Land Raider and fear no one other than dedicated assault troops.

6. Bikes are bloody HARD to kill. But not impossible. At the end of the day I did kill about 20 bikers in three turns and not one by Demolisher so I guess that's not too shabby.

[scatmandoo]

Great battle report.

 

I am a player as well as an opponent of space marine bike armies. They are very hard to kill.

 

Not knowing the krieg list, can you get any ignore cover units into the army? A defensive banewolf could even be useful.

 

Bar that what are your thoughts on the demolisher? I find the executioner a risk but a better tank for the task as 5 blasts are better than 1?

 

More thoughts later when I bring my bat rep out too.

[WarriorFish]

Nice report, very detailed. First a couple of things - in 7th Jink saves must be declared earlier and they reduce all shooting for that unit to snap shots, was this the case here? Also Marines can never be sweeped thanks to And They Shall Know No Fear so that would have had less of an impact if it had happened.

 

I think you did a good job on the bikers, they're basically speedy and tough Tacticals. Plasma and pie plates are the best way to deal with them, but locking them in combat is viable too. Against an army that will outmanoeuvre you that much it is usually best to keep your units together to prevent getting picked off. Then you can try and isolate and bully his, or just sit around throwing everything you have at them.

 

Grav is nasty but not much you can do against that, for Guard at least you know they'll be going after the biggest and toughest of tanks so plan accordingly!

[Kierdale]

A good read, and analysis.

I look forward to more!

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

@scatmandoo -- well, Krieg does have some ignores cover stuff, I could take Heavy Mortars or Griffons with Carcass Shells, but they are AP4 so it would not have helped against those bikes. When it wasn't night fight they had 3+ jink save so they'd be getting their 3+ either way.

 

Thoughts on the Demolisher ... well, it didn't do much but an Executioner would have fared no better. It got glanced to death by the top of turn two, so I only got to fire it once. The Str 10 pieplate did hit and wound five bikers so the potential was there, just with those darn White Scars his jink was way too good. Against regular bikers jinking that would have been 3 dead bikers, one of them an insta-gibbed attack bike. Not bad for a single shot. That said, the intimidation factor played a role. Executioner would have had the same. I will need more data but so far I see every reason to keep the Demolisher.

 

@WarriorFish -- yes, jinks were done as you described, although on a couple of occasions I rolled my dice too fast and thus they had already been rolled before he decided to jink or not. He was always already within assault range by the time he had to jink though so it didn't make too much of a difference. It seems to me that White Scars are best dealt with in hand-to-hand where they can't jink and my Death Korps troops were more than equal to that task.

 

As for the Grav, well, I must say the Land Raider did soak up a ton of fire that otherwise may have been chewing through my troops and in the end, I had only lost my Death Riders, the Land Raider, the Demolisher and the Inquisitorial warband by the end of turn 3 -- as compared to killing 20 or so bikers and a tac squad. He had only his Chapter Master, about 5-6 bikers, and two Razorbacks left versus my full platoon, untouched Grenadiers + chimera, 7 Scions, Hydra, and Quartermaster Cadre. I am still annoyed at that Quartermaster Cadre. Feels like a 75 point tax to be able to run my army as it is ... I think I really need to find 25 points because not only can the Company Commander issue orders he is actually passable in close combat with WS5, 3 wounds, and a refractor field.

 

I have no idea how to ever kill that Chapter Master though, now that you pointed out ATSKNF to me ... can't shoot him dead, with a 3+ jink and 3 wounds he would be impossible to kill barring a lucky melta or Demolisher shot. I don't know if I could lay enough wounds on him in hand-to-hand ... even if I mobbed him with an entire platoon those 6s to wound are killer. I wish now that I had modelled Soulis with a power fist, but as you know, I initially built him thinking he'd be a psyker with hammer hand. Darn 7th edition. If I had had hammer hand I think I would have smoked that Chapter Master and his squad like a cheap cigar. It is not worth 30 points for a 1/6 chance of having Hammer Hand now though. I suppose I could put three psykers for the same price for a 1/2 chance but still ...

[ThatOneMarshal]

@Nicodemus dolorosos the answer my friend is D weapon.

[scatmandoo]

@scatmandoo -- well, Krieg does have some ignores cover stuff, I could take Heavy Mortars or Griffons with Carcass Shells, but they are AP4 so it would not have helped against those bikes. When it wasn't night fight they had 3+ jink save so they'd be getting their 3+ either way.

 

Thoughts on the Demolisher ... well, it didn't do much but an Executioner would have fared no better. It got glanced to death by the top of turn two, so I only got to fire it once. The Str 10 pieplate did hit and wound five bikers so the potential was there, just with those darn White Scars his jink was way too good. Against regular bikers jinking that would have been 3 dead bikers, one of them an insta-gibbed attack bike. Not bad for a single shot. That said, the intimidation factor played a role. Executioner would have had the same. I will need more data but so far I see every reason to keep the demolisher ...

Thanks for getting back to me. Aftwr seeing the updates, is it possible to allie in a CCS from the militarum for the orders including ignores cover and access to other units let alone some cheaper ones?

 

Have you considered a punisher with bolter sponsons and hs? 32 shots that should cause 16 wounds on average and with that many dice everyone rolls 1's for armour saves.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Well, I would have to completely switch over to Astra Militarum to do that, since AM officers cannot give orders to DKoK troops. I definitely gave serious consideration to switching to C:AM when the codex first came out, but I love my WS4 and other Krieg benefits too much. So I guess that's the trade-off.

 

I had not considered a punisher. With the price reduction it is a much more viable option than ever before. The problem I find myself in is that I'm out of room to change much in this list, and as noted above, everything (except the Quartermaster and Hydra) did something useful and earned their keep at least in this first battle. So there is nothing obvious to remove. The Inquisitor and his warband are a huge point sink and that is probably my biggest list-building problem but they are (a) too integral to my fluff, and (b )were on the whole quite effective and if I'd used them more wisely and avoided the Chapter Master would probably have done even better.

 

We'll have to see how the next battle goes.

 

EDIT: changed formatting to get rid of an annoying and inappropriate emoticon.

[scatmandoo]

Well, I would have to completely switch over to Astra Militarum to do that, since AM officers cannot give orders to DKoK troops. I definitely gave serious consideration to switching to C:AM when the codex first came out, but I love my WS4 and other Krieg benefits too much. So I guess that's the trade-off.

 

I had not considered a punisher. With the price reduction it is a much more viable option than ever before. The problem I find myself in is that I'm out of room to change much in this list, and as noted above, everything (except the Quartermaster and Hydra) did something useful and earned their keep at least in this first battle. So there is nothing obvious to remove. The Inquisitor and his warband are a huge point sink and that is probably my biggest list-building problem but they are (a) too integral to my fluff, and (b )were on the whole quite effective and if I'd used them more wisely and avoided the Chapter Master would probably have done even better.

 

We'll have to see how the next battle goes.

 

EDIT: changed formatting to get rid of an annoying and inappropriate emoticon.

Ah I wasn't aware of how they interacted. In that case I will do more research on the krieg to be able to give more advice.

 

I have read about the quartermaster and he has good fluff but as you have pointed out very exoensive. How many points did he take up?

 

Do you have access to air support and is that a better option than him and the hydra?

 

Or because the model looks amazing, can he represent anything else that could be more effective?

 

I do agree with your last para though, everything did just work so its hard to drop something. I myself am still trying to find a counter to bikes as they are one of the biggest threats to our lines.

[Bonzi]

Nice report, very detailed. First a couple of things - in 7th Jink saves must be declared earlier and they reduce all shooting for that unit to snap shots, was this the case here? Also Marines can never be sweeped thanks to And They Shall Know No Fear so that would have had less of an impact if it had happened.

 

I think you did a good job on the bikers, they're basically speedy and tough Tacticals. Plasma and pie plates are the best way to deal with them, but locking them in combat is viable too. Against an army that will outmanoeuvre you that much it is usually best to keep your units together to prevent getting picked off. Then you can try and isolate and bully his, or just sit around throwing everything you have at them.

 

Grav is nasty but not much you can do against that, for Guard at least you know they'll be going after the biggest and toughest of tanks so plan accordingly!

 

Against White Scars you can't even lock them up in combat.  Hit & Run is a huge part of their rules, I was surprised to see it not used in this game.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

He may have forgotten to hit and run or maybe he was going easy on me?

 

For my part, I just realized that I forgot that the Munitorum Priest's Zealot USR makes the unit fearless so my Inq warband should not have broken! I still had 1 crusader, 1 arco Flagellant, and two DCA versus his chapter master and sergeant. They could have done some damage (it he could have hit and run and buggered off or shot them up).

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

@Scatmandoo -- I just realized that I neglected to answer your question about the Quartermaster. He costs 75 points. Way too much for a T3 2 wound model that only confers 6+ FNP. He was the one "unit" in my army that really felt like he did nothing. Basically a 75 point HQ tax to allow me to bring the army I want. No unbound armies for the tournament I'm ramping up for, though.

 

It seems to me that my best bet is to scrounge 25 points and upgrade him to a Krieg CCS. Then I get more orders. Krieg senior officers can issue "Bring it Down!" for twin-linking versus vehicles and monsterous creatures, "Get Back in the Fight", and "Duty Unto Death" which allows re-rolling all Ld tests for a turn. But more importantly I could give two more units the junior Krieg Officer order "Without Mercy" which makes lasguns assault 2.

 

I will be playing a game against Orks this afternoon. I am going to drop the platoon standard, 1 Scion, and 1 Servo skull to free-up 25 points and bring a CCS instead of the Quartermaster. It is a bit of a shame because that conversion and paintjob on the Quartermaster would earn me a better score on the painting/converting aspect of the tournament. But let's see how the CCS goes first.

[librisrouge]

Could your Quartermaster be used as your officer to help your painting?

[scatmandoo]

@Scatmandoo -- I just realized that I neglected to answer your question about the Quartermaster. He costs 75 points. Way too much for a T3 2 wound model that only confers 6+ FNP. He was the one "unit" in my army that really felt like he did nothing. Basically a 75 point HQ tax to allow me to bring the army I want. No unbound armies for the tournament I'm ramping up for, though.

 

It seems to me that my best bet is to scrounge 25 points and upgrade him to a Krieg CCS. Then I get more orders. Krieg senior officers can issue "Bring it Down!" for twin-linking versus vehicles and monsterous creatures, "Get Back in the Fight", and "Duty Unto Death" which allows re-rolling all Ld tests for a turn. But more importantly I could give two more units the junior Krieg Officer order "Without Mercy" which makes lasguns assault 2.

 

I will be playing a game against Orks this afternoon. I am going to drop the platoon standard, 1 Scion, and 1 Servo skull to free-up 25 points and bring a CCS instead of the Quartermaster. It is a bit of a shame because that conversion and paintjob on the Quartermaster would earn me a better score on the painting/converting aspect of the tournament. But let's see how the CCS goes first.

Thanks for your reply. As for your dilema, I would agree that orders are the way forward. Are there any other options available to you if are not so keen?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

"PRE-SEASON" BATTLE 2: 16 JULY 2014 VERSUS ORKS

Armies:

ORKS

Warboss on a bike with power klaw

15 Bikers, with power klaw (nob), painboy

20x Boyz w/ shootas, power klaw (nob) in a Battle Wagon w/ red paint

20x Boyz w/ choppa & slugga, power klaw (nob) 'eavy armour in a Battle Wagon w/ red paint, boarding planks

Gretchin in a Trukk (don't know how many -- they never got out)

10 Lootas

LORD INQUISITOR SOULIS' CRUSADE COHORT DEMEDA

Lord Inquisitor Soulis (Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor) w/ power armour, power sword, 2x servo skulls

Inquisitorial Warband - x2 crusader, 2x Death Cult Assassin, 1x Arco Flagellant, 2x Acolytes, Munitorum Priest, Land Raider

Major Henry Zajac and Company Command Squad

Militarum Tempestus Commissar

Hydra

Lt. Khodkievich's Platoon - DKoK PCS w/ 2x Flamer, power sword; PIS w/ metlagun; PIS w/ Flamer

SLt. Golunski's Grenadiers - 2x meltagun, heavy flamer, power sword, Storm Chimera

Inquisitorial Storm Troopers - Scions (9) w/ 2x plasmagun

8 Death Riders

Demolisher

NOTES: Only a slight variation to last month's list. I reduced the Scions by one, took out the PCS standard, and dropped a servo skull to free-up points to upgrade the Quartermaster to a Company Command Squad. I used the Quartermaster for my Forlorn Hope objective. I think that's my way to keep the model in action at Astronomi-con. More on that idea later.

The mission was Relic and the Deployment was short table edges, 24" in.

DEPLOYMENT:

He won the roll-off and depoloyed first. Going left to right as you view this picture, the empty Lootas trukk is the thing with a bridge on it, his Lootas are i the ruins, then the red battlewagon is the Boyz with shootas, the black one has the Boyz with sluggas and choppas, then the trukk with Gretchin is behind the central ruins and then his big mess o' bikers on the right.

My deployment is, left to right, the Hydra, Grenadiers' Chimera, Inquisitorial Land Raider with the Death Riders behind, CCS in the central ruins, and then platoon bubble-wrapping the Demolisher. Inquisitorial Storm Troopers (Scions) in reserve to deep strike.

TURN 1

He moved his trukks and battle wagons forward, as well as the bikes. The bikes, all armed (apparently) with the Orky equivalent of heavy bolters. Under a hail of 30+ twin-linked shots at strength 5 AP 5 the platoon squad in front of the Demolisher disappeared in a fine red mist. The Lootas opened-up with 30 shots of their own on the Grenadiers' Chimera and thanks to his bad rolling and good cover saves by me (saved all three penetrating shots he landed), stripped two hull points off via glances.

On my turn forward I moved pretty much everything forward. I made my first mistake of the game (aside from deployment issues) and failed to re-bubble wrap the Demolisher. The Demolisher fired on the bikes, I rolled very badly for scatter but I managed to snag two bikers nevertheless thanks to poor jink saves. The Land Raider and the 2x grenadier meltas failed to do anything to the Ork Battle Wagon with the shoota boyz. Hydra was once again a paperweight. Here's a shot at the end of Turn 1:

TURN 2:

Things started to get ugly, fast. I totally underestimated what those Battle Wagons with boarding planks are capable of. I hadn't even turned my mind to the possibility that they could get in there. I could have denied them by having the CCS just a little over but as it was, they could all fit and still be 1" away from everything I had in there -- big lesson learned to be more mindful of such things. The one with the slugga/choppa boyz zoomed up beside the Land Raider and used its boarding planks to get the boyz into prime position to charge my Death Riders, whilst the shoota wagon stayed put and the other trukks and bikes moved forward.

His shooting this turn was not noteable, although the Lootas did put an end to the Grenadiers' Chimera. In Close combat, the bikers made quick work of the Demolisher since between the Warboss and Nob both with power klaws they had an obscene number of Str 9 or 10 attacks. Likewise, the slugga/choppa boys left only a bloody smear of the Death Riders, with over 70 attacks (I actually killed two with laspistol overwatch otherwise it would have been 80). It was the Nob with his klaw, insta-gibbing three riders that did the most damage.

In my turn, the Storm Troopers who I desperately needed already this early in the battle failed to arrive. Then I make my next big mistake. In hind sight, looking at the pictures, what I should have done is slammed the Land Raider into reverse, tank shocking the boyz out of the way and deploying my warband out a side door so that they wouldn't have to assault anyone in cover. As it was, what I did instead was drive 5" forward and do a hand-brake turn, then got out the front door. My shooting did little. I think I killed a biker with sustained lasgun fire ("Without Mercy" issued by the CCS). The Grenadiers destroyed the Battlewagon holding the shoota boyz.

I charged in and the platoon squad was shredded by overwatch charging the bikers, although Lt. Khodkiewicz and his command squad made it in. I believe the Lieutenant killed a biker with his power sword as Commissar Drurary accepted the warbosses challenge. They were wiped out. The Inquisitorial warband had to charge a couple models into cover due to moving closest to closest. This resulted in me attacking last with the DCA since they do not have grenades. The DCA and arco-flagellant were killed before they could swing. The CCS had charged in as well and Major Zajac accepted the Nob's challenge and took a wound off him and suffered no wounds himself. Lord Inquisitor Soulis and the few survivors of his squad (one Crusader and the priest) whittled down the orks quite nicely but lost the combat by 1. Fearless they held, and Major Zajac passed his test with ease. Looking at the table at the end of turn two I knew I was already in some pretty serious trouble.

TURN 3:

His bikers moved to the centre of the table where the relic was in the wreckage of that rhino, picking it up. The Lootas wipe out my Grenadiers -- tons of Str 7 shots meant so many wounds that I could not make that many carapace saves. In hindsight perhaps I should have gone to ground. But that's very un-Valkan! Not much other shooting. In combat, Soulis and the priest whittle the Orks down some more and the remaining crusader tanks about 7 or 8 wounds before finally falling. Major Zajac is killed but the combat is a draw.

On my turn, Storm Troopers again failed to show up. Lt. Khodkiewicz returned with reserves, but they are really far away from the action thanks to the deployment type. They move as far forward as they can. No shooting of note (the Hyrdra tried to kill the Lootas' truck). In combat, I foolishly accepted the Nob challenge with lord Inquisitor Soulis instead of the priest. Soulis died, the priest held (zealot USR).

A blurry photo for the end of turn 3:

TURN 4:

The battle is pretty much lost at this point because his bikes can just outrun me with the relic, plus he has first blood and slay the warlord. I soldier on though. His movement is fairly unremarkable, the Loota trukk moving down to block the platoon. He charges the Land Raider with his bikes and the klaws make short work of it. Redemptor Karlist, however, enraged by the fate of Lord Inquisitor Soulis, calls on the blessing of the Emperor and makes a smash attack on the Nob, killing him. Dismayed, the Boyz panic and flee and are cut down to an Ork by the priest full of righteous fury.

In my turn the Scions arrive as they must, and Lt. Khodkiewicz and his men surge forward. In shooting the Scions kill three bikers with some decent plasma and hotshot lasgun fire despite jink. The platoon must deal with the trukk blocking them in close combat (krak grenades) since shooting was again ineffectual and Redemptor Karlist got cut to shreds in overwatch as he tried to go for more revenge charging the bikers.

TURN 5

Not much worth telling and I tapped-out at the end of this turn as there was nothing I could do. The footborne platoon and Scions weren't catching up to anyone and they would be shredded by the shooting of the Lootas and the bikes before long in any event.

It was a pretty big blowout. He had the Relic, my Forlorn Hope objective, Slay the Warlord, and First Blood for 5 VP to 0. A pretty crushing defeat.

TACTICAL REVIEW:

I still think that this is a viable list, and that some fairly huge blunders on my part were the bigger story rather than DKoK Asslt Bde not being competitive. Target priority was a big issue since I didn't know enough about Orks (haven't faced them in ages, and never faced an army like this one). At the tournament my opponent will provide a list for me to look at although I've learned well. The Demolisher should have been deployed with the Land Raider et al and I should have done a "denied flank" sort of deployment. I should have learned after the White Scars game that the Demolisher is wasted on bikes thanks to their save. With his Batte Wagons so close there was a real possibility of KO'ing both of them and this would have changed things significantly and added a turn at least before the bikes could get stuck-in. I really needed to protect my Death Riders better also -- lesson really learned about those boarding planks!

As mentioned in turn 2, I totally mishandled the Inquisitorial Warband charge on the choppa boyz leading to a huge chunk of my army getting wiped out. If I'd done that right, the SCA would have totally blended that squad, then could have gotten back inside the land raider (his klaws were the only ones that could touch it) and probably re-deploy to hurt the bikes bad or mess up the shootas.

I really have no idea how I could have dislodged those Lootas. Those guys are sick. Huge number of Str 7 shots -- who cares if they're BS2? And they had nice cover to compensate for their 6+ armour. A Griffon with Carcass Shells would have totally ruined their day and been much more useful than the Hydra which -- once again -- did nothing. I am really wondering whether its worth keeping that thing ... but with only a 10 days until Astronomi-con I can't realistically build a griffon. And then what about when I do face flyers?

The CCS was totally worth the extra points. Sub Lieutenant Golunski's sword broke off in transport and I am going to put a chainsword on him to give Major Zajac a power sword. If he'd had one he would have killed the Nob in that first round of combat. I also liked the plasma guns on the Scions. They felt more multi-use.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

1. CCS definitely in, rather than the Quartermaster. Orders and with WS5 and 4 attacks, half decent in combat (versus the Quartermaster who is useless with 2 wounds and otherwise junior officer stats).

2. Death Riders must be carefully guarded.

3. Demolishers are useless against bikers. Use them elsewhere.

4. Must be more mindful of target prioritization.

5. Pretty sure that the plasmas are in on the Scions, but want to try one more game. I may want that additional anti-tank punch. Yet I like the broader utility of plasma.

6. Crushing defeats like this are better for learning than any victory.

7. Hydra??? Man I really hope all that time and money invested wasn't a total waste. Maybe I can convert it into a Griffon somehow.

On the whole this was a battle that I lost control of very early and felt like I just couldn't do anything for the rest of the way.

[scatmandoo]

Sorry for your loss and eternal damnation or the Ork Xenos!

 

*Cough* as a former ork player I know how deadly they can be when close especially bikes.

 

Do you have access to an eradicator or hellhound? They would deal better with bikes as they would ignore cover and orks being a 4+ get no armour?

 

Also for the lootas, do you have access to scout sentinels with heavy flamer for flanking shenanigans, or hellhound for same task if you gave access to giving it flanking somehow?

 

As for the rest, shoot and fall back while doing the area denial would have helped you as you pointed out.

 

Does the hydra have a HB or HF as flamer could do more than a bolter and act as a small deterrent/options?

[David Ravel]

Very cool batrep again, thank you !

 

I support the choice of scatmandoo for an Eradicator. It's cheap, AV14 and can ruin alot of people days.

 

As far as the Hydra goes, have you ever used it on a flyer before ? Because personnally I tried two hydras, even three, and it fails miserably, even against flyer. Of course it will shred eldar AV10 flyers... but who plays them ? It won't work on Stormraven (AV12 with too many HP) and neither on Heldrake (5++). That is based on experience. If you look at the mathhammer, against an Heldrake, it will net you 0.667 HP, with no chances of blowing it. Against a Stormtalon it will net you a 1.5HP with no chance of blowing it. Of course it's cheap and can fire at skimmers, but I still think its not worth it. At that rate, I much prefer to use an Exterminator with heavy bolter sponson (less cheap, I know). It's an AV14 mean machine against 4+ or less, and against AV10-11 you have so many shots (some being twinlinked) that it gives you a fair chances of doing damage (the fact that it wont hurt the Heldrake is of no concern since the Hydra won't too; if you want to hurt it absolutly, take Vendettas or Avenger Strike Figther). The Hydra doesn't have this chance factor, and doesn't even have the mathhammer factor. It's just plain bad now that it doesn't ignore jink, also it has less front armor etc.. At least the model is cool and your painting is nice ! That's always a factor to consider, playing with models you like. 

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Thanks for the suggestions, gents. I do have access to Hellhounds and even have one fully painted; the problem is that one costs 50 points more than a Hydra and I see no way of carving 50 points out of this list. Same with an Eradicator.

 

DKoK do not have access to sentinels of any kind. I do think the only viable replacement for the Hydra is a Griffon with carcass shells (ignore cover). Any ideas on how to quickly convert that? Basically I just need something to represent a heavy mortar and pop that where the Hydra gunner/ guns go for a quick and dirty conversion.

 

The more I think about this the more I'm convinced this game was tactical error driven not so much list building. If I swapped the Demolisher + bubble wrap and the land raider on deployment things would have gone much different.

 

I am toying with the idea of two 5 man storm trooper squads though ... One with plasma and one with flamers to deal with stuff camping in cover like those Lootas.

[scatmandoo]

Which ruleset are you going off by the way?

 

To aid in helping you out I have downloaded a pdf list but there are no griffon or chimera in there. I have spotted either a quad launcher or artillery emplacements that could work if assembly could be quick?

 

As for quick conversion, have you seen pics of the original? The morter didn't appear very big.

 

Do you have the wyvern spares left over still? They could be used to make a single morter or even a good kit bash a unique quad launcher?

 

2 storm trooper squads would work well. Maybe if points allow make the second the command option to get orders too?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Using 7th Edition rules and the Imperial Armour 12 Death Korps Assault Brigade. I just checked Forgeworld and there is no FAQ, rules update, or PDF available for Assault Brigade so I am assuming that the rules in the hardcover book are still what I go by, inwhich case Griffons are an elite choice. For 80 points I can use Carcass shells which are Str 5 instead of 6, but still AP 4 and have Shred (counteracting the loss of 1 strength) and Ignores Cover. Not so much of a much against power armoured opponents but even just one of these would have put a mean hurt on any of the Ork units I faced here.

 

Just looking on eBay for some ideas ... I see I can get the bitz for a Warhammer Fantasy Empire mortar for only $3 -- anyone know if it's big enough? A bit fancy, but could work. But yuck on the shipping.

 

I'm going to scrounge in my bitz box ... maybe I can find something to mount a small bit of plastic tubing to. I am going to try one last battle before Astronomi-con next Wednesday, my opponent has agreed to bring a flyer (he'll play marines so I am guessing a Storm Raven) and see if the Hydra is completely useless. If it is, I think I'm going to go to a Griffon w/ carcass shells.

 

RE: the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers -- I could squeeze the points for an HQ by dumping the commissar as my mandatory HQ choice for allied Scions. However, the orders would not help much since they'd likely deploy at a different spot from the plasma Scions. However, they could order themselves, and 4x flamer deep-striking HQ could be rather interesting. The question is do I have the time to model and paint that (10 days)? Probably not. but if I can get everything else done by the weekend I might give it a go.

[scatmandoo]

Thats what I get for being cheap I suppose haha. Sounds like your list is much better anyway.

 

Is the griffon one big blast template? If so i think that would do the job for sure. A piece of tubing would work. Good luck with the conversion.

 

Hopefully the hydra helps though as much as I want them to work as I think they're awesome they just aren't good enough

 

Ref the stormtroopers, would the plasma work more effectively on the command squad with the orders? I have no idea on the difference the orders that the MA can get just trying to think outside the box for you.

 

 

In another question, do you find the power weapons on the infantry effective for the points or would guns/more units maybe worth considering depending on how much you would save?

 

 

Hope no offence by the suggestions.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Yes the Griffon is a large blast template. I am leaning heavily towards that option.

 

DKoK power swords are only 10 pts so I find them worth it. It is hard enough to wound most things that it is nice to be able to by-pass their armour.

 

On the command squad the twin linked or preferred enemy orders would work nicely with plasma but points wise I could only afford two plasma guns. Could still be worth it though especially since I would only have to model/paint the Tempestor Prime which is good given my time limitations.

[scatmandoo]

Ah I thought as much. That will be a good fit if you manage the kit bash.

 

Ah fair enough that isn't too many points though it is another plasma gun if you do the scion command route....

 

Good luck with it all.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I scoured my bitz box and I have the beginnings of something. We'll see how it turns out. If it's good I think I just might bring a griffon instead.

 

Three power swords would equal two plasma guns. Or two power swords = one plasma gun plus 5 extra points. At this point I think I'll keep the power sword on Lt. Khodkiewicz (platoon commander) for fluff and for fun, and on the company commander because it's useful. As I mention Golunski (Grenadier sergeant)'s power sword broke off so I'm going to pin a chainsword (thicker -- a pin is as wide as a forgeworld power sword) for a savings of 10 points. I'm comfortable with a 2 plasma gun stormie squad -- makes it not quite as much of a fire magnet.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Well I just found out that army lists were to be submitted for scoring on 12 July so I am almost a week late and must get my list submitted tonight.

 

So now's your last chance to offer thoughts on the list building. Hydra yae or nae? Speak now or forever hold your peace!