PastelAvenger Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Sold! Yeah I was thinking Dreadclaw as it gives the mobility to get to another target easily. That sounds brutal I'm definitely gonna have to look at that might run 1 CF 1 Dual Claws 2 PA with a Forge Lord no need for Fists if Axes do the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I've currently got a list I'm not happy with going to look at a Orbital Assault list using Reavers and Justaerin, I'm just struggling with getting enough Anti Tank at 2500pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Give it a go and let me know how it goes for you, I've run it a few times in friendly games and it has been a lot of fun, although it's only really amazing when you're playing against 2 wound T4 armies otherwise you were going to wound on a 2+ with Furious Charge axes on T4 anyway. What AV do you have in the list already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'm actually using The Black Reaving RoW as it allows me to have my Reavers as troops which means I can bully tactical squads off objectives. What do you think? +++ Sons of Horus Orbital Assault (2496pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++ + HQ + Legion Centurion [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Combi-Weapon, Cyber-familiar, Power Fist, Rad Grenades] ····Consul [Forge Lord] Legion Praetor [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Paragon Blade] ····Master of the Legion [The Black Reaving] + Troops + Legion Tactical Squad [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Reaver Attack Squad [Artificer Armour, 9x Chainaxe, 3x Power Fist, 3x Power Weapon, 14x Reavers] + Elites + Contemptor Dreadnought Talon ····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod] Contemptor Dreadnought Talon ····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod] Justaerin Terminator Squad [Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod, Chainfist, 4x Justaerin Terminators, Pair of Lightning Claws] + Fast Attack + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod + Heavy Support + Legion Kharybdis Assault Claw + Legion + Legion Astartes [XVI: Sons of Horus] depthcharge12 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I think your Reavers are a bit unfocused and expensive. I think you should take out two power fists and shift the 30 points somewhere else as 2+ save units should be handled by your Justaerin/FL/Praetor/dreadnoughts. Keep one fist just as an insurance policy, but they should be bullying all of the enemy marines on the board (3+ saves). I'm wondering what the tipping point is for power weapons as you don't want to take so many that you completely obliterate the enemy squad and get shot in his turn, but you don't want to take too few and never get out of combat. When I fixed my list, I decided to take a Javelin speeder instead as it actually meshes well with the SoH - it has outflank and deep strike, and can start on the board for drop lists. Not to mention it's a cheap fire and forget platform that once you unload into your desired target, anything after that during the game is just a bonus. You could honestly drop one contemptor and pod if you feel like since you'll still get 3 pods on the first turn, and it'll free up points for 3 tricked out Javelins. Now you don't have 3 open slots for FA to make them all individual units, but that's not a huge issue. I'd honestly drop the LCs on the Justaerin and just take 3 with axes and 1 with a chainfist. Odds are you won't outnumber anyone, especially 3+ save units to make use of Merciless Fighters with LCs. Saves you an extra 50 points that you can slap some combi weapons on or take an apothecary for the pricy Reavers :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Not sold on the Justaerin, rrally, but due.to how you've got the set up, the only other option is an overpriced Terminator Command Squad which doesn't get FC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I tend to field my Reavers like Death Company in 40k 1 Power Sword 1 Power Fist per 5 guys. The unit is pricy but I always seem to lose a Fist before getting into combat. Reavers can't take Apothecaries to my knowledge, it's not listed as a unit they can be attached to but if they could that would be a very good idea. By dropping the Contemptor I could look at picking up some Javelins and it would give me some diversity and speed in the list I could possibly look at 2 3 man Squad of Jetbikes a unit I already own. The lightning Claws where suggested to me, although I own Justaerin I have very little experience with them to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Oh, I thought you were running an orbital assault army but you're running Black Reaving in the same style instead? And yeah Reavers cannot take Apothecaries. I'd honestly just switch to normal Orbital Assault if I were you. Put your Tactical Squads in normal Drop Pods to save points, they're not going to do much charging out of an expensive assault transport, and getting rage can be quite difficult. Contemptors can be downgraded to normal Dreadnoughts to save points, which fulfill the same role you've given them adequately. Maloghurst is amazing and lets you keep Reavers as troops, which are far more useful than normal Despoiler Tacticals if you want to put them in Dreadclaws instead of normal Drop Pods. Perhaps give the Justaerin some combi-meltas (on the off chance they get the chance to use them, they don't cost much) and remove the claws unless you're going for rule of cool. Lightning Claws paired on Justaerin are expensive and while good in theory don't really fit what you're using the unit for. Justaerin are badly overpriced enough as is and are an utter waste when thrown into a 3+ unit. Use Reavers for that, they get the job done. If you're set on Orbital Assault style (even if it is Black Reaving), I would not remove the Dreadnought(s) for Javelins. Javelin Speeders are great and I'm very fond of them but 1 Dreadnought isn't much of a threat on its own and Javelins are generally only good at killing light/medium vehicles at best. If the list wasn't built around drop pods then Javelins would fit in better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Slightly tweaked list I've not changed the Dreadnoughts yet as I'm not sure what to spend the freed up 100pts on. +++ Sons of Horus Orbital Assault (2499pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++ + HQ + Legion Centurion [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Combi-Weapon, Cyber-familiar, Power Fist, Rad Grenades] ····Consul [Forge Lord] Legion Praetor [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Paragon Blade] ····Master of the Legion [Orbital Assault] + Troops + Legion Tactical Squad [Legion Drop Pod, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad [Legion Drop Pod, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] + Elites + Contemptor Dreadnought Talon ····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod] Contemptor Dreadnought Talon ····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod] Justaerin Terminator Squad [Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod, Chainfist, 4x Combi-Weapon, 4x Justaerin Terminators] + Fast Attack + Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron [Melta Bombs, Multi-Melta, 3x Space Marine Sky Hunters] Reaver Attack Squad [Artificer Armour, 9x Chainaxe, 3x Power Fist, 3x Power Weapon, 14x Reavers] + Heavy Support + Legion Kharybdis Assault Claw + Legion + Legion Astartes [XVI: Sons of Horus] I could also downgrade the Praetor to either Maloghurst or a Delegatus and save around 40pts there. Just realised there is no Anti Air in this list though! Maybe try and show in a Fire Raptor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Tricky. I'd be inclined to say go for Maloghurst, but if you put him with Reavers they can't run or sweeping advance which is a huge loss for them - but he does make them troops. Give the Forge Lord a chainfist too so the Justaerin have at least 1 chainfist with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 This is my problem where do I put him? I could drop him in and keep him in the Kharybdis so he could join a tactical squad? But that seems like a lot of messing around to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'm not sure which way to go with my force. Atm I have the contents of B@C which I'm planning on turning into two squads of 15 tacticals and everything else as normal. I know I'm going to need transports for them, but I don't think I'm going to be able to making more than one expensive purchase (£50+) on transports so I'm unsure how to proceed, any advice? Also which SoH named character is worth going with, I was thinking of using Loken cause I liked him from the book but then again I don't mind just going with generic HQs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I don't really go for named characters a Praetor is usually enough although Loken is very good for goods points even if he is lacking a 2+. The only transports that can take 15 Marines are Spartans, Storm Eagles and Kharybdis all of which are pricey monies wise. It all really depends on what points cost your running to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Don't mess with a Praetor in SoH unless you really want the Paragon blade and you have him in a unit that gets Merciless Fighters. Here's why: For less points, you can get a Delegatus for 135 pts with mostly the same benefits, but with the Primus TDA and a power fist. This gives him 2+/4++ with EW and a weapon that will insta smoosh 90% of the things you'll face. You're still hitting on a 4+ against other praetors anyway. Cheap and beaty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Probably best if I just limit my squads to 10 then so I can put them in rhinos/drop pods instead. Edited January 7, 2016 by WoT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Don't mess with a Praetor in SoH unless you really want the Paragon blade and you have him in a unit that gets Merciless Fighters. Here's why: For less points, you can get a Delegatus for 135 pts with mostly the same benefits, but with the Primus TDA and a power fist. This gives him 2+/4++ with EW and a weapon that will insta smoosh 90% of the things you'll face. You're still hitting on a 4+ against other praetors anyway. Cheap and beaty. Never bother with a Delegatus, they are simply not worth it. Delegatus = 75 points, Praetor = 100 points. For those extra 25 points, you get +1 WS, +1 Wound, +1A, +1 LD and Artificer Armour. If you actually want a beatstick HQ, those 25 points are always going to worth it because of the sheer benefits you get. The only value s a Delegatus has is in either a small game (where those 25 points are still insane value*) or when you want his unique RoW. Edited for clarification: poor phrasing, the 25 points upgrade to Praetor is still insane value, not the Delegatus himself. Edited January 7, 2016 by Marshal Loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I thought the preator was 150 base O_o? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I thought the preator was 150 base O_o? No, 100. I've never understood why the Delegatus costs so much when it is intended to be a cheaper HQ for lower point games; they should have made it so that if you have a plain Centurion as your Warlord he could be upgraded to a Delegatus for free (or something along those lines). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Hes a "budget" hq mostly for his RoW which is Pride of the Legion lite with a much weaker downside. If your not using Chosen Duty, theres no reason to take one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) I would have preferred he be a viable alternative for lower point games. At the HH Weekender '15 FW said that he was intended to offer cheap access to Rites of War; I don't think he does that adequately. Either way, I already stated that point above. Edited January 7, 2016 by Marshal Loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 For Alpha Legion, the Delegatus is definitely worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Unless I’m missing something (as I am no AL player) this is only because of Chosen Duty, which is already listed above as effectively the only reason why it is justifiable to take a Delegatus. The Alpha Legion also have access to Skorr, who is basically a Delegatus with a master-crafted power axe and the ability to pick his strategic warlord trait for only 15 points more. Either way, this is a Sons of Horus Tactica. What works for Alpha Legion doesn’t necessarily work here. The SoH have Maloghurst, who is a bargain for his points and unlocks Reavers + Veterans as troops, doesn’t give extra victory points when he dies and has a Fearless bubble. Maloghurst makes Veterans troops without the downside of either the Delegatus or taking POTL. Maloghurst is objectively superior to a Delegatus in a SoH list every single time unless you’re trying to cram in the cheapest possible Master of the Legion for a tiny game. And as a beat stick, a Delegatus is never worth it over a Praetor, as you have vastly inferior combat stats and offer up an extra VP when/if you die. thamier and Terminus 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) With AL, Skorr and his Rite basically let you cherry pick three USRs for a good chunk of your units. You are leaking VPs, though, between the rite and martial hubris. But yes, this is the Sons of Horus tactica (or is it? are you Alpharius?!), and Maloghurst is a much better alternative at only a tiny bit more. Edited January 8, 2016 by Terminus Marshal Loss 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Ironically, an FAQ just came out today that reduced the cost of a Delegatus upgrade from 25 to 15 points. A Delegatus can even master-craft one weapon for free now. Funny timing FW! Every post I have made in the last 24 hours is now out of date ladies and gentleman, but a Delegatus can't be taken with a Lords of War choice if the Delegatus is a Warlord. Interesting changes. Edited January 8, 2016 by Marshal Loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Ironically, an FAQ just came out today that reduced the cost of a Delegatus upgrade from 25 to 15 points. A Delegatus can even master-craft one weapon for free now. Funny timing FW! Every post I have made in the last 24 hours is now out of date ladies and gentleman, but a Delegatus can't be taken with a Lords of War choice if the Delegatus is a Warlord. Interesting changes. "EAT YOUR WORDS YOU FEWL!!!!!" :P Just kidding of course, but as Drake says, "How bout now? Cuz I'm up right now." Delegatus with a MC power fist in the Primus TDA. Ringa Ding baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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