[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[Marshal Loss]

 

Ironically, an FAQ just came out today that reduced the cost of a Delegatus upgrade from 25 to 15 points. A Delegatus can even master-craft one weapon for free now. Funny timing FW!

 

Every post I have made in the last 24 hours is now out of date ladies and gentleman, but a Delegatus can't be taken with a Lords of War choice if the Delegatus is a Warlord. Interesting changes.

"EAT YOUR WORDS YOU FEWL!!!!!"

 

 

Just kidding of course, but as Drake says, "How bout now? Cuz I'm up right now." Delegatus with a MC power fist in the Primus TDA. Ringa Ding baby.

 

 

Unfortunately for you, the change to the relics mean that you can't just take it to any game without permission as they're no longer a real part of the army list.

 

fewl

 

[depthcharge12]

 

 

 

Ironically, an FAQ just came out today that reduced the cost of a Delegatus upgrade from 25 to 15 points. A Delegatus can even master-craft one weapon for free now. Funny timing FW!

 

Every post I have made in the last 24 hours is now out of date ladies and gentleman, but a Delegatus can't be taken with a Lords of War choice if the Delegatus is a Warlord. Interesting changes.

"EAT YOUR WORDS YOU FEWL!!!!!"

 

 

Just kidding of course, but as Drake says, "How bout now? Cuz I'm up right now." Delegatus with a MC power fist in the Primus TDA. Ringa Ding baby.

Unfortunately for you, the change to the relics mean that you can't just take it to any game without permission as they're no longer a real part of the army list.

 

fewl

 

See that's the weird thing, it's like they won't let you make a list before running it.

 

I don't honestly think anyone would say no though, even in friendly games. Nothing's balls to the walls OP, even though there are funny instances with things like the gray goo gun.

[Sanct]

It's cool you can tack a grav gun toting forgelord to a squad and still sweep now.

 

Nothing's balls to the walls OP, even though there are funny instances with things like the gray goo gun. 

 

 

Void shield harness and that iron hands ap3, haywire flamer aren't more than a little op?

[Slips]

No.

 

The VSH is 40 pts and the Grav Gauntlet is 40+ as well and its only D3 Flamer Templates (or flat 3? AFB). It has a lot less range than the regular grav gun so the problem there is actually getting into range to use it.

 

While the VSH does grant you and AV12 bubble, you still need to stack everybody neatly under its 5" Marker or not gain the benefit (extraneous cases notwithstanding). You know what that means? If you pop the shield and then drop a 5" Template on them, look at how neatly they are arranged!

 

Not to mention they can only be taken on Characters.

[1ncarnadine]

The VSH is 40 pts and the Grav Gauntlet is 40+ as well and its only D3 Flamer Templates (or flat 3? AFB). It has a lot less range than the regular grav gun so the problem there is actually getting into range to use it.

 

Flat 3 templates, plus AP3 and Haywire... yeah, it was pretty brutal.

 

From a SoH perspective this means we lose regular EW access via the Cataphractii Primus though. Sad :( Even though that relic in particular had non-functional rules.

[Slips]

 

The VSH is 40 pts and the Grav Gauntlet is 40+ as well and its only D3 Flamer Templates (or flat 3? AFB). It has a lot less range than the regular grav gun so the problem there is actually getting into range to use it.

 

Flat 3 templates, plus AP3 and Haywire... yeah, it was pretty brutal.

 

From a SoH perspective this means we lose regular EW access via the Cataphractii Primus though. Sad Even though that relic in particular had non-functional rules.

 

Its still a toughness test so wounding marines on a 4+ And you have a 2+ Sarge Anyways.

 

Its only real use is nuking a tank or Overwatching a Walker.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Hesh Kadesh]

But don't forget, it was extra special haywire and could affect buildings.

[Sanct]

5+ vs strength but with a build you can nuke a tank on turn 1. (bye bye sicaran)  Or remove most of a 3+ squad from the map (bye bye culverins)  Or vaporise a building and all those garrisoned units.  (bye bye...well everything)  Even against non-vehicles it's 2-6 times as damaging as a regular flamer for 4 times the cost with bonus's.

 

Plus the VSH doesn't need all the models to be under the template, just the ones who are going to be assigned wounds.

 

From a SoH perspective this means we lose regular EW access via the Cataphractii Primus though. Sad  Even though that relic in particular had non-functional rules.

 

 

Yea but the idea was cool.  It encouraged the fluffiness of an alpha wolf/gang boss in your army.

[PastelAvenger]

I'm not gonna stop someone taking relics I kinda like seeing them games

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

 

Ironically, an FAQ just came out today that reduced the cost of a Delegatus upgrade from 25 to 15 points. A Delegatus can even master-craft one weapon for free now. Funny timing FW!

 

Every post I have made in the last 24 hours is now out of date ladies and gentleman, but a Delegatus can't be taken with a Lords of War choice if the Delegatus is a Warlord. Interesting changes.

"EAT YOUR WORDS YOU FEWL!!!!!"

 

 

Just kidding of course, but as Drake says, "How bout now? Cuz I'm up right now." Delegatus with a MC power fist in the Primus TDA. Ringa Ding baby.

Unfortunately for you, the change to the relics mean that you can't just take it to any game without permission as they're no longer a real part of the army list.

 

fewl

 

See that's the weird thing, it's like they won't let you make a list before running it.

 

I don't honestly think anyone would say no though, even in friendly games. Nothing's balls to the walls OP, even though there are funny instances with things like the gray goo gun.

 

 

 

It's pretty clear that the relics aren't to be considered a part of the main list now. They were only ever intended for campaign play.

 

I think it's a good change and my tournament scene is already pleased with the effective removal of relics from the main list. The removal of irritating void shield generators etc is a good thing. Keep the relics for where they were intended. Unlucky.

 

A Delegatus is now a solid choice for a small game now, with the reduction in cost. Still not worth it for larger games (even less so now) but it's a good change and one I'm pleased with. The Primus was never an amazing piece of wargear anyway; your Primus beatstick is even cheaper with a normal set of Cataphractii so I'd just roll with that.

[1ncarnadine]

Ironically, an FAQ just came out today that reduced the cost of a Delegatus upgrade from 25 to 15 points. A Delegatus can even master-craft one weapon for free now. Funny timing FW!

 

Every post I have made in the last 24 hours is now out of date ladies and gentleman, but a Delegatus can't be taken with a Lords of War choice if the Delegatus is a Warlord. Interesting changes.

 

So I've been thinking on this, and yeah. The Delegatus is now the way to bring an allied detachment that's also running a RoW (now that that's been clarified as being definitely possible as well). Very cheap, doesn't let you bring Lords of War (who cares, secondary detachment), and you can now more easily combo in something like Reaping Death Guard with a Maloghurst Reaver force. Pretty cool. Might be some interesting combinations at 3k+ games, probably too expensive with the extra troop tax slot for smaller games.

 

edit: hmm actually if he has to be the Warlord can he be run as an allied force HQ?

Edited January 8, 2016 by LetsYouDown

[Sanct]

edit: hmm actually if he has to be the Warlord can he be run as an allied force HQ?

 

 

Afraid not.  The warlord has to be in the primary detachment unless you're playing unbound.

[norngahl]

It's pretty meh the vsh is gone.. was one of the best wargear items ever and a great boost for expensive glascannons.

 

Moritats with even a single plasmapistol suck and with anything else they are not worth it under the current rules. Chainfire every round and the loss of lone killer would make them a character worth taking for the rule of cool.. but with 2 volkites they will always loose compared to a support squad. Hoped they would make them better with different guns but less killy as they were before with plasma..

 

The nanythe blaster was kinda harsh vs 40k.. faced nids a few days before in an apocalypse battle and the gun removed all the small bugs in a single round of shooting as they stood side by side due to space problems. We did the first two squads as in the rules and noticed the effect grows potentially. After the first 40 bugs we simply removed all 1wound models from the board. Uhm yeah..but in regular 30-40k it wasn't that mean.

 

One thing I can't mention enough- take those goddam meltabombs whenever you can. Ripped MCs appart before they can swing in most cases.

 

Caestus didn't convince me- again. St8 plate isn't great with cover and rules for flyers, even when you are pretty invincible to AA in return.. deloading expensive troops that want to charge puts them in critical range of anything.. A dreadclaw plus magna melta pred will do better 99% of the time imo..

 

 

Typhon let me down every second round, even it did not take a single HP loss. Enemies tend to ignore it if they have no grav or kraken can opener. But 7" plate with usually 3 inch scatter often means a lot less damage against intended targets. Big blobs of expensive units are over, as deathstars seem to be. Points would have better been spend on direct fire in most of my recent games. A whirlwind scorpius against some enemies is all that is needed imo (for stranded 3+ units that lost their transport..)

 

Quadmortars and fire raptors for me :D

 

A unit that impressed me over the last few games was a full culverin squad. Hell they are expensive but they are impressive as well and tend to get overlooked pretty often due to juicier targets. Sheer weights of shots makes them great for home objective camping while killing camper units in return.

 

Plasma deredeo is dead as well. Insanely expensive and only good against deepstriking 2+ and/or in Combo with a interceptor can opener, which is either pretty expensive as well or pretty unreliable.. combining this with the arc.. meh.

[Flint13]

None of the relics are "gone" they just are part of the pre-game convo you need to have with your opponent before hand.

 

Works just fine in the same sentence as "how many points and what mission would you like to play?"

Edited January 10, 2016 by Flint13

[Terminus]

Won't be any relics in my games, as much as I'll miss the super cortex. It was way too out of hand and I always thought they were intended specifically for a campaign setting.

[PastelAvenger]

I don't really see the issue with relics to be honest. None of them were game breaking and a of them seemed to be coated adequately.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Some armies by virtue of luck had good relics. Photobic Blade, say. Others... Well... Others got Dark Angels.

[depthcharge12]

Some armies by virtue of luck had good relics. Photobic Blade, say. Others... Well... Others got Dark Angels.

Ooh ow that hurts me....:P

[Sheesh Mode]

None of the relics are "gone" they just are part of the pre-game convo you need to have with your opponent before hand.

 

Works just fine in the same sentence as "how many points and what mission would you like to play?"

 

You have answered most of the player base's complaints. Congratulations.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Sheesh Mode

[Charlo]

Some armies by virtue of luck had good relics. Photobic Blade, say. Others... Well... Others got Dark Angels.

 

Yeah... Jeez. That thing is silly.

 

Maybe it's been a red herring and will somehow WRECK when thier rules come out :P

[PastelAvenger]

Some armies by virtue of luck had good relics. Photobic Blade, say. Others... Well... Others got Dark Angels.

Isn't the blade like 20pts more though? seems costed quite fairly. The Dark Angels relic will mesh well with their rules just you wait.....I hope

[Hesh Kadesh]

10pts difference; the Pyrix is 40pts IIRC. And unless Dark Angels get some malus to enemy Fear tests (such as guaranteed access to Terrify, a character with Abaddon's Warlord Trait, or a rule which allows them to bypass Vexilla, or take it at a significant penalty... not really. 

 

Parthinian Serpent? 1 S6 Interceptor Shot. Awesome. Against pretty much universal AV12. 50pts? Really?

 

Mancatcher. Pay 40pts to get a worse Chainglaive that actually wants to keep its opponents alive? It can't affect Monstrous Creatures.

 

Earthbreaker Trident; sure, the building damage 1/game is pretty awesome. By the time T6 comes along, you've spent 50pts to destroy something you could have spent those 50pts on Meltabombs. S6 AP2 is decent, but unwieldly AND specialist?

 

Gladius? Shield Mocker would be lovely on something that's actually going to be killing AP3 models. Unfortunately, you've spent 40pts to kill Breacher Marines. Seriously? 

 

Resonator, same issue. Sure, on a Terminator, it's basically an 6 Shot AP3 weapon wounding on 2's, but for the cost of a rhino, you're killing AP3 models? 

 

Cataphractii Primus - the +1 Toughness is nothing, due to how majority toughness works, although EW is nice. Depends if it comes with Power Weapon and Combi-Bolter or not either as to effectiveness, otherwise you're stuck with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol, and cannot upgrade.

 

Dissonator - reducing the save of your daemon allies is worthwhile, no?

 

Zeroth Shield? - At 30pts? Not bad, worthy option, but as it's only a combat shield, nah. 

 

Fractal Blade - On an Terminator or Jump Pack character, i can see the attraction of causing double wounds with S6 AP3 Rending and double damage, but you're spending those points to kill MEQ's?

 

Drakaina - 45pts? AP4? versus Marines? Causing 3.5 Toughness Tests on Toughness 4 Marines?

[PastelAvenger]

10pts difference; the Pyrix is 40pts IIRC. And unless Dark Angels get some malus to enemy Fear tests (such as guaranteed access to Terrify, a character with Abaddon's Warlord Trait, or a rule which allows them to bypass Vexilla, or take it at a significant penalty... not really.

 

Parthinian Serpent? 1 S6 Interceptor Shot. Awesome. Against pretty much universal AV12. 50pts? Really?

 

Mancatcher. Pay 40pts to get a worse Chainglaive that actually wants to keep its opponents alive? It can't affect Monstrous Creatures.

 

Earthbreaker Trident; sure, the building damage 1/game is pretty awesome. By the time T6 comes along, you've spent 50pts to destroy something you could have spent those 50pts on Meltabombs. S6 AP2 is decent, but unwieldly AND specialist?

 

Gladius? Shield Mocker would be lovely on something that's actually going to be killing AP3 models. Unfortunately, you've spent 40pts to kill Breacher Marines. Seriously?

 

Resonator, same issue. Sure, on a Terminator, it's basically an 6 Shot AP3 weapon wounding on 2's, but for the cost of a rhino, you're killing AP3 models?

 

Cataphractii Primus - the +1 Toughness is nothing, due to how majority toughness works, although EW is nice. Depends if it comes with Power Weapon and Combi-Bolter or not either as to effectiveness, otherwise you're stuck with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol, and cannot upgrade.

 

Dissonator - reducing the save of your daemon allies is worthwhile, no?

 

Zeroth Shield? - At 30pts? Not bad, worthy option, but as it's only a combat shield, nah.

 

Fractal Blade - On an Terminator or Jump Pack character, i can see the attraction of causing double wounds with S6 AP3 Rending and double damage, but you're spending those points to kill MEQ's?

 

Drakaina - 45pts? AP4? versus Marines? Causing 3.5 Toughness Tests on Toughness 4 Marines?

I never said all relics were good or costed correctly but thank you for the input. Edited January 12, 2016 by PastelAvenger

[Galron]

In trying to come up with a fun list that I don't already have(NL/IW) but like the paint scheme for, here is a rough list I came up with. My normal games are 2500 vs 40k armies, Dark Angels are a primary opponent. Mostly this is a fun list that I have meant to be a TAC list. There's no RoW as nothing really fits the style I was looking for. All points are rough estimates since my book isn't with me.

 

Maloghurst

Consul Chaplain w/ refractor field, melta bombs and AA.(Likely will give him an axe)

Consul Moritat w/ jump pack, AA, Refractor field, melta bombs, and 2 serpentia. 

 

Apothecaries x2 w/ Scanner and meltabombs

Contemptor talon x2 w/ Kheres and havoc launcher

 

Tactical Squad x19 w/ vexilla, power Axe, AA, melta bombs

Tactical Squad x18 w/ vexilia, power axe, AA, melta bombs

 

Reavers x10 jump packs, w/ Powerfist, AA, Melta bomb, 2 melta guns

Vets x10 Meltaguns x2, powerfist, combi-melta, melta-bomb, rhino - outflank

Vets x10 meltaguns x2, powerfist, combi-melta, melta-bomb, rhino - outflank

Vets x10 Heavy Bolters x 2, meltabomb Rhino, -Sniper

 

Trying to use the bonus to reserves and masses of bodies moving across the board. The Reavers and two of the vets outflank and go for vehicles and targets of opportunity. Meanwhile 40 tac marines charge across no mans land and get to grips with the opponent. The ranged vets set up shop someone and provide ranged support and the two contemptors escort the tac squads. Ill have the chappie in one squad and Maloghurst in the other, obviously with apothecaries in support. Not worried about Typhons, the worst I will run into is a knight now and then. If I play against a knight list however I am building a different list or playing my IW.

 

Like I said, its mostly to look cool on the table, be something different with mass bodies and have a different scheme to paint. I don't think its overwhelmingly evil, but then I didn't think my last IW army list was either and it won 22-2 and I felt bad after using it. My IW is all about ranged fire and tanks or all terminators, and my NL is drop pods and flyers.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Galron

[Slips]

Outflanking the Melta Vets is cool but, in the event that you do go up against an armour list, dont forget you can give them Tank Hunters to up the ante.