[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[Galron]

I was considering dropping the bolter vets and replacing them with a heavy support squad which I have plenty of parts for or a couple tanks whom I can repurpose. However I kind of like the idea right now that most of my opponent's AT weapons have nothing to really shoot at, which makes the heavy support squad seem a little better than tanks or the heavy bolter vets in their exposed rhino. 

[PastelAvenger]

To be honest I would stick some Grav Rapiers in your list. If you were to face my usual set up at this points level I run a LoW and you don't really have anything to deal with one if they take Armoured Ceramite which they will.

 

Don't get me wrong you will probably win on VPs anyway due to all the scoring units you have but it will be a hard slog for it

[Galron]

To be honest I hate rapiers. I dont like the idea of them. I see them too much as a crutch in 30k lists. I have never actually played a game vs a 30k army and none of the super heavies in my group have the option of AC. I am thinking a heavy support squad might be a better option than the HBolter vets. Maybe a pred squadron.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Galron

[PastelAvenger]

You don't really need anymore Anti Infantry shooting though and although a full Squad of Executioner Preds can deal with AV13 at a push it isn't very reliable. 2 Sicarian Venators would be better but they would almost be nearly dibble the points but they can shut down an opponents nice big toy if they penetrate.

[Flint13]

To be honest I hate rapiers. I dont like the idea of them. I see them too much as a crutch in 30k lists. I have never actually played a game vs a 30k army and none of the super heavies in my group have the option of AC. I am thinking a heavy support squad might be a better option than the HBolter vets. Maybe a pred squadron.

 

The issue with heavy support squads is that they are crazy fragile and loose effectiveness with every lost wound. On top of which, they aren't fearless so can book off the board edge on a bad roll. 

 

A Venator is a good tool. Awesome at shutting down big things and even has a great chance at punching through flare shields.

[Galron]

Hmm Might have to get one then. I guess a Typhon wouldn't be useful here either, just picked one of those up for my IW but haven't put it together yet. I could retask an IW Glaive, but we are talking a lot more points invested which means dropping things. Multi-melta attack bikes? Never been a big fan of bikes in general but I do have open slots and 250ish points. Can you put grav on attack bikes, I never actually have read an entry on any of the bikes in any GW/FW books since RT lol. 

[Flint13]

^A Typhon is always useful. 

 

About the only time it isn't useful is when it's shut down by a Venator :D

[Galron]

I'll sub my sicarian for a venator for a few games and see how it goes.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but there is still no current way to bring a knight as a LoW correct? Someone on another forum was saying there was and I don't see it legally happening.

[Emperor's Furor]

Is it worth ever having power fists on sergeants and such? I was thinking of giving my veteran squad sergeant a combi-melta and power fist but then realised he doesn't get a bonus attack if we out number.

[Erren]

I'll sub my sicarian for a venator for a few games and see how it goes.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but there is still no current way to bring a knight as a LoW correct? Someone on another forum was saying there was and I don't see it legally happening.

Correct, Legions can't take a single knight as a LOW (Mechanicum can). The solution for Legions is to ally in a pair of knights from the knight list, assuming you aren't running a RoW that disallows allies. This isn't a huge penalty imho, because solo knights are relatively easy for your opponent to deal with anyways.

[norngahl]

^A Typhon is always useful. 

 

About the only time it isn't useful is when it's shut down by a Venator

 

Wrong, if you face MSU and/or enemys that widely spread their units or MCs you will regret spending 410 (Typhon, AC, LCs) points this way rather than in direct fire...Neigh invincible through ;)

[SkimaskMohawk]

Why ever buy the lascannons? Its role is mass removal and lascannons add nothing to it, unlike the cerberus where they compliment its role

[Slips]

They're also single-shot lascannons on an already expensive platform which is otherwise unaffected by Weapons Destroyed Results.

 

Save yourself the points.

[Sanct]

Why ever buy the lascannons? Its role is mass removal and lascannons add nothing to it, unlike the cerberus where they compliment its role

 

it's a super heavy vehicle

[Slips]

 

Why ever buy the lascannons? Its role is mass removal and lascannons add nothing to it, unlike the cerberus where they compliment its role

 

it's a super heavy vehicle

 

That it may be but, what do two single lascannon shots bring to the table on the Typhon Platform whose points cost couldn't be better used elsewhere?

[PastelAvenger]

 

 

 

 

Why ever buy the lascannons? Its role is mass removal and lascannons add nothing to it, unlike the cerberus where they compliment its role

it's a super heavy vehicle

That it may be but, what do two single lascannon shots bring to the table on the Typhon Platform whose points cost couldn't be better used elsewhere?

Could always try pop a medium AV Tank? That's just an option I agree they are a waste of points since you can't get a weapon destroyed result.

[Sanct]

 

 

Why ever buy the lascannons? Its role is mass removal and lascannons add nothing to it, unlike the cerberus where they compliment its role

 

it's a super heavy vehicle

 

That it may be but, what do two single lascannon shots bring to the table on the Typhon Platform whose points cost couldn't be better used elsewhere?

 

 

That's not what he was saying in consideration to the role of the typhon as they don't need to complement the vehicle role.  

Since you brought it up they are always shooting, independently targetable lascannons at a price you can't get for less anywhere in the army list. (without targeting issues, being more vulnerable, or having mobility issues)

Could you spend the points better?  Depends on the list but for lascannons they are cheap.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Lascannons do kinda suck, tho. If I have 40pts left over, i'm more likely to try and see elsehwere I can spend them. Or more likely, if I'm over on points, Lascannons are the first thing to go.

 

Independently targeting or not, it is still limited to where it is deployed, usually, the 24" range can be a pain, so it usually sits down where it is set up and pivots. Those lascannons are typically targeting front armour all the time, and they're not even TL'd. At least if it is on a Predator, those Lascannons can have a decent chance of targeting side armour.

[Sanct]

When you say that hesh i worry.  Lascannons can hurt anything in the 30k universe.

You choose what to shoot. Ping off void shields. Hail Mary shots on 1hp vehicles. Declare the cover save so you can pick off that AA sarge so your volkite can remove the rest of the squad.  You will never be short of a target.

Put them on a pred and you have sponson los issues, have to target the same enemy with your shots and probably will be snap firing if you move.

 

On a super heavy, 12 lascannon shots over 6 turns for 40pts is a bargain.  On a predator it's debatable.  

[Emperor's Furor]

Is it worth having combi melta and lightning claw rather than combi melta and power fist to take advantage of the additional attack at int step 1?

[Sanct]

Only if you want them to nom 3+ saves or worse models.  The moment a 2+ or vehicle arrives you want that powerfist.

[Hesh Kadesh]

And even with 2 Wounds or FNP models, the fist is preferential. The extra attack should be made up by your ability to gank units with multiple units, not just by taking a large unit and hoping for it, nor duking your ability to deal damage by building to take advantage of the rule.

 

The rule is there to save you and deal extra damage if you can make use of it. No sense in making you less effective ti make use of that rule.

 

Also, context is appropriate. A unit of Terminators? Powerfist away. Reavers? JP or not, Power Weapon, but a few PFists would not be amiss.

[Emperor's Furor]

Ok, I'll stick with the power fist then since he's going to be in a tank/big creature hunting veteran squad with meltas.

[Sheesh Mode]

^A Typhon is always useful. 

 

About the only time it isn't useful is when it's shut down by a Venator

Yes, my missiles think so too. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

 

^A Typhon is always useful.

 

About the only time it isn't useful is when it's shut down by a Venator

Yes, my missiles think so too.

I'm sure there is context here, but I'm not quite seeing it...