[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[Sheesh Mode]

They won't get anything from the SoH rules (unless they outnumber in cc) so your best bet is looking at a Breacher specific Tactica and judging based off the merits of the unit itself. Then again, it's probably best to actually wait till after the Weekender to see if our Merciless Fighters is being changed to something relevant to them (only hint from Penddraig was that it may involve bonuses to short ranged weapons).

They are bait. Scout them up field with a vigilator and include Maloghurst to anchor them. Or use the Black Reaving and include a Master of the Signal so that you have two nuncio's in the unit to facilitate the Dreadclaw drop you will conduct to create an overwhelming counter-charge towards whatever has decided to take the center field from those breachers. 

[Marshal Loss]

Not convinced of the merits of putting Maloghurst in a Breacher blob when there are Cataphractii available for him and Strength 10 blasts readily available, but I love the idea of the MoS Breacher blob with the Dreadclaws coming in. That's a seriously cool image.

[Sheesh Mode]

Not convinced of the merits of putting Maloghurst in a Breacher blob when there are Cataphractii available for him and Strength 10 blasts readily available, but I love the idea of the MoS Breacher blob with the Dreadclaws coming in. That's a seriously cool image.

 

To avoid the requirements and restrictions of The Black Reaving while ensuring a 10 - 20 model blob stays put even if it is hit by S10 blasts. A large, fearless, Ob-sec unit is difficult to shift despite the relative fragility of its members when compared to terminators and the like. The more you treat this game like Chess the easier it is to understand. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Sheesh Mode

[Hesh Kadesh]

That unit is 610pts to run Mal, Vigilator and Grav Breacher Marines.

 

It is target number 1 and 3 Medusa or Plas Preds turn it into slush. You kill the Warlord, and ditch 25-33% of the army into worhthlessness as they gibbed.

[Sheesh Mode]

That unit is 610pts to run Mal, Vigilator and Grav Breacher Marines.

 

It is target number 1 and 3 Medusa or Plas Preds turn it into slush. You kill the Warlord, and ditch 25-33% of the army into worhthlessness as they gibbed.

 

What points level are you playing in and why are you running a full squad of Breachers when fifteen are sufficient?

[Hesh Kadesh]

1850-2400.

 

You're going to have to sell that 15 Man thing to me as well.

[Sheesh Mode]

1850-2400.

 

You're going to have to sell that 15 Man thing to me as well.

I play 2500 to 3000. Fifteen bodies accomplish the same role as twenty while saving points. Adding redundancy in additional models is moot due to the units you mentioned before: Medusa's, Plasma-Predator squadrons, and the like. Five more marines will die like any of the others. Better to use the 45 or so points for some terminators or to make some more space for a full squad rather than padding the hook. 

 

Stop thinking in absolutes.

[PastelAvenger]

1850-2400.

 

You're going to have to sell that 15 Man thing to me as well.

Why 2400pts? Just seems an odd points number to aim for.

[depthcharge12]

 

1850-2400.

 

You're going to have to sell that 15 Man thing to me as well.

Why 2400pts? Just seems an odd points number to aim for.

I think to prevent certain LoW...?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Not especially, more glaives the better. They aren't brilliant for their cost or survivability. Maybe 450-475pts is more appropriate.

 

Made a typo with 2400, meant to be 2500. If there is ever a banned unit for us locally, it is the Warhound Titan at 3K. Where some people turn up with a 3k list, or people turn up with a Warhound and a 2.25k list. At 2k or 2.4k, picking up a Falchion is a Strength D shot. At 3K, you play against 4 Strength D shots, and are completley immune to what AT units have. To counter a titan, you must built an entire list to kill that Titan.

 

It just isn't fun to play against with an army that is built to play against all comers.

 

Also, Sheesh, I'm not talking in absolutes. I'd rather spend more point on a 20 man breacher blob with grav and vigilator, and a Cataphractii squad with reaper for Mal to sit in, maybe an AA turret if taken. I appreciate what you are saying; save 65pts there and 190pts on the terms, and get more assault units/shooty stuff. But that leaves you picking up AT Alpha Strike slack eleswhere, and short of a backfield objective camper that you need to otherwise pay for, and simultaneously putting your warlord in harms way and risk throwing VP's into opponents lap.

 

I also don't particulary appreciate being told what I'm thinking, either.

[PastelAvenger]

The Glaive is a :cuss cat at 2500pts as it can't get Armoured Ceramite. I have a Reaver combi-melta unit and they took 6 HP off my friends in 1 turn and that is some horrific dice rolling on my part.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Completely even forgot it couldn't take AC. I pod in ALmeltas, and AV12, AC or not stands no chance; 10 Meltas, hitting on 4's is 6-7 hits, glancing on 4's, penning on 5's with a +3 is average 4 HP's down.

 

Of course some players don't bother with AC even when they can due to that, unless its AV14 all round.

[PastelAvenger]

Hitting on 3s buddy ;-) put a Master of Signal in there and they really should be killing it in one turn.

[Sheesh Mode]

Sheesh, I'm not talking in absolutes. I'd rather spend more point on a 20 man breacher blob with grav and vigilator, and a Cataphractii squad with reaper for Mal to sit in, maybe an AA turret if taken. I appreciate what you are saying; save 65pts there and 190pts on the terms, and get more assault units/shooty stuff. But that leaves you picking up AT Alpha Strike slack eleswhere, and short of a backfield objective camper that you need to otherwise pay for, and simultaneously putting your warlord in harms way and risk throwing VP's into opponents lap.

 

I also don't particulary appreciate being told what I'm thinking, either.

I feel you are. But apologize if you find the statement insulting; that was not my intention.

 

The breachers close ground with the opponent. Who is camping in the backfield the Cataphractii? That's a poor use of their points against most armies. Further, you can simply field other Cataphractii in Dreadclaws to drop where you will and attack their heavy armor in the subsequent turn; chainsfists are delightful. The Breachers are busy pushing forward and backfield duty is hardly their purpose anyways when used by Sons of Horus. We are not Imperial Fists. 

 

The question comes down to the environment of play. Is it terrain heavy and what type of armies will you be facing? Depending on the opponent a fearless blob of Breacher marines is exactly what you need to hold the line while your assault elements move into position. While against others it is simply a ponderous points sink. We can list the armies but that's largely moot. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2016 by Sheesh Mode

[PastelAvenger]

So the Weekender is only 8 days away. I have my list ready for a mega battle on Friday and 4 vs 4 Saturday. Hopefully I will do the Warmaster proud.

 

I know my opponent is taking 10 tooled up Cataphractii and I'm hoping my Justaerin and Forge Lord get to assault them. Would love to see his face when they go squish

[norngahl]

Wanted to share my 3k list.

 

Legion Praetor, Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers, Meltabombs, Phase Walker 215

Contemptor Dreadnought, 2x DCCW/Gravgun, Dreadnought Drop Pod 270

Quadmortar 60

Quadmortar 60

Quadmortar 60

10 Legion Veterans, Artificer Armour, Vexilla, 1x Poweraxe, 2x Powersword, Meltabombs 275

10 Legion Veterans, Artificer Armour, Vexilla, 1x Poweraxe, 2x Powersword, Meltabombs 275

5 Support Legionaires, Volkite Calivers 125

5 Support Marines, Volkite Calivers 125

Dreadclaw 100

Dreadclaw 100

Primaris Lightning, 4x Kraken Penetrator, Ground Tracking, Tank Hunter 210

Fire Raptor, Reaper Cannon Battery 210

Sicaran Battle Tank, Heavy Bolters 155

Warhound, 2x Turbo Lasers 750

=2990

 

Praetor goes for dug in units or helps here and there if necessary, rest is pretty obvious. Could go for the reaving as well to add some more SoH flair.

[PastelAvenger]

Wanted to share my 3k list.

 

Legion Praetor, Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers, Meltabombs, Phase Walker 215

Contemptor Dreadnought, 2x DCCW/Gravgun, Dreadnought Drop Pod 270

Quadmortar 60

Quadmortar 60

Quadmortar 60

10 Legion Veterans, Artificer Armour, Vexilla, 1x Poweraxe, 2x Powersword, Meltabombs 275

10 Legion Veterans, Artificer Armour, Vexilla, 1x Poweraxe, 2x Powersword, Meltabombs 275

5 Support Legionaires, Volkite Calivers 125

5 Support Marines, Volkite Calivers 125

Dreadclaw 100

Dreadclaw 100

Primaris Lightning, 4x Kraken Penetrator, Ground Tracking, Tank Hunter 210

Fire Raptor, Reaper Cannon Battery 210

Sicaran Battle Tank, Heavy Bolters 155

Warhound, 2x Turbo Lasers 750

=2990

 

Praetor goes for dug in units or helps here and there if necessary, rest is pretty obvious. Could go for the reaving as well to add some more SoH flair.

I assume your local group is pretty tough? I just don't see Warhounds at this points level as they are too good for their cost.

 

It's a punishing list something I wouldn't relish to fight against.

 

Have you read the new FAQ about relics? If not you might want to rethink those points.

[Hesh Kadesh]

750pts for 4 Strength D is too powerful that even we have banned it (alongside Knights as Allied detachments) unless people have agreed a dedicated fight agreed beforehand to face explicitly face a Warhound or Allied Knights. The other options are not too bad, but they aren't stupid broken like Strength D. There is a motion to increase it to 125pts per gun for the

 

That said, it is rather weak vs Graviton and MeltaPod combinations. Grav strips the Void Shields, then melta drops in and puts 10 S8 +3 to damage Tank Hunting Melta shots into its rear. 9HP is rather fragile.

 

The first time we had one of those guys who tried to abuse it by doing that got brought down.

 

Of course, it is.so niche (1 legion, 1 special character, specific Rite of War, 10 expensive models that most effective ay builds at that level cannot afford to take. Most armies do not have the ability to take 10 30pt MEQ models that only shoot 1/game.

[norngahl]

We agreed that one relic per army is allowed. If not, I'd drop a veteran with powerweapon and put the praetor into a dreadclaw. Hes rather a funny suprise rather than a serious element in my list.

 

@Hesh

A gravgun cannot harm a voidshield as the VS can only be damaged by glancing or penetrating hits.

Beside this, I can not remember when was the last time I saw a melta suicide squad at full strengh in a drop pod, especially because now that legionaires can't stay in pods anymore. But as I can see the army I will face before the game, I will react tactically. I could even drop the primaris and take some allied militia and drown the warhounds feet in bodies to prevent melta. Just not necessary.

 

Pretty much enough to kill any low in one round and the most expensive units. And he WILL do this even when he dies in return. Who cares :D

[PastelAvenger]

Don't Grav cause glancing and penetrating hits? How does it not effect them? I know Titans are immune to haywire but I didn't think this was extended to VS

[Hesh Kadesh]

The titan is immune to Haywire. The void shield states that when the titan is hit, it hits the void shield instead. There is no wording in reference to the Void Shield being immune.

 

Unless of course you'd prefer to be stunlocked by Nipple guns that otherwise have no effect if it hits the shield? ;)

Edited January 29, 2016 by Hesh Kadesh

[norngahl]

IIRC it's the same wording to the void shield harness which says that every glancing or penetrating hit causes the void shield to collapse. Haywire attacks do not cause penetrating nor glancing hits, ergo no collapse.

[1ncarnadine]

IIRC it's the same wording to the void shield harness which says that every glancing or penetrating hit causes the void shield to collapse. Haywire attacks do not cause penetrating nor glancing hits, ergo no collapse.

 

Uhhh. Huh? Haywire rolls a D6, where 2-5 is a Glancing Hit and a 6 is a Penetrating hit. 

[PastelAvenger]

 

 

IIRC it's the same wording to the void shield harness which says that every glancing or penetrating hit causes the void shield to collapse. Haywire attacks do not cause penetrating nor glancing hits, ergo no collapse.

Uhhh. Huh? Haywire rolls a D6, where 2-5 is a Glancing Hit and a 6 is a Penetrating hit.

Yeah totally agree I'm not sure where these guys are getting that it doesn't cause glancing or pens.

[norngahl]

My bad, you are totally right. DK what madness got me :D

 

Nonetheless, are we really argueing about the survivability of a warhound?.:D Unless the enemy has melta weapons on mass that he can bring close, he is pretty f*cked.

 

Sure, it's not invincible, but as the typhon, in most games he will easily make his points back. Not a nice move, through ;)