[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[Flint13]

For 10pts for a boarding shield on an IC, those defensive grenades give you a 1:6 chance of blinding something before you charge it or guarantee elimination of one attack per model if you're charged.

 

Hell yeah those things are worth it.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Flint13

[Hesh Kadesh]

No, for 5++ and that I don't want to spend 20pts to get another attack, and then another 10-25pts for the Refractor or Halo. It is a budget assassin who can either join Reavers in a pod, or the Tac Squads in a Valk. And while the points of Flint are valid, and legal, I do potentially disagree (when do i not?) Since the rules for defensive nades changed in 7th, they used to give stealth rule at shooting attacks in 8" against them. Less powerful, maybe, but closer.to their initial implementation that edition change has meant.

 

Valks are available as per my sig ;) still need to update it to Book V and Mechanicum but I'll wait Until i have VI to edit it. The d99 Valks are in IA42e, and worth their weight. Plus, they are plastic and available from GW. Standard options.

 

Reavers can do what they want. I have a wide variety of units capable of killing templates, and if I can't then I deploy out of LoS or wait until they are destroyed. I did try to fit in a Damocles or an Aegis line for the ability to slow it down, but struggled to find the 70-100pts.

 

Medusa are capable of blatting anything barrage S10 ap2. If points check out, there may be space for Nuncios, but I don't think so, but either way, not much can afford to just ignore it. Either I grt free kills, or I force my opponent intkna particular kind of action. Plus, fun for if someone does put down a Spartan and get it gibbed turn 1 by the 8 Grav Shots I have (can guarantee 5 on target). If opponent runs Typhon and Spartan, I have a Nipple gun to force Snap shots

 

The Valks don't bring huge AA, but are moderately capable, while a Deredeo flat out nopes things, and can deploy in such a manner as to catch any deep strikers hunting for the Medusa, and S8 Sunder TL BS5 makes a chew toy out of huge targets like Warhounds and their Void Shields, and even the odd bit of AV13 side armour ifnthe meltas do not OHKO.

 

Also, this isn't a straight counter to your list, rather a more adapted general all comers. I don't like list building to counter specific lists, unless they become a general trend.

[PastelAvenger]

I'm not sure I like your list Hesh it just doesn't sit right with me. I don't know what it is.

 

Your explanation is perfect though and I can certainly see how well it meshes together.

 

I'm not sure if my usual opponents would let me take Valkyries though.

[Charlo]

How do Valks fit into the Legion list?

[Galron]

Curious to that one too since I have two vultures just sitting around from an aborted start of an Elysian army. Are they allies or a LoW choice or something of that nature?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Yeah, have a look in my sig, you can include unupdated imperial vehicles for 30k from 40k Imperial Armour books as lords of war, with in particular, IA42E providing D-99 Valks, with a Suborbital Strike wing consisting of 1-3 3HP or less non SH flyers - and if you backdate Mechanicum Red Book, 4HP non SH Flyers. They are individual units, but only a single Slot.

[Galron]

Ahh now I found it. One of my legions is getting Vulture support me thinks, not that they really need it all things considered. But who doesn't like cool looking gunships floating around shooting things?

[PastelAvenger]

I think I would rather have 2 flyers that could actually offer some sort of aerial defense, taking two flying transports and a Deodero just seems over kill especially since you dont have much that a Primaris Lightning would go after.

 

I'm still not sold on the idea though regardless of the ruling, they just don't feel Heresy.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Does it matter that I don't have much a Lightning goes after? If it's dead, it's dead. I also, as mentioned have the ability to go after Void Shields or light transports, or even things like Predators or Sicarans stupid enough to let a clean sunder shots go in against them, side armour or no. It is basically a super shotgun and area denial weapon. Plus, I don't like the idea of a Flyer going around and just popping my Dreadclaws, because Dreadclaws are ace. They're able to strip a HP or two, as well as deny, and AV12 3HP Denial vehicles with a 4+ Jink are really rather kinda cool. Plasma? Nope, suck it. Autocannons? Same deal, only they don't get a chance to roll destroyed. Lascannons? If you really want to waste that shot for a chance at rolling 3+ Penetrates or rolling a 6 to kill, and not have it jinked, feel free to try; by the way, I'll take my 10 Lascannons shots for 400pts like a champ, cheers, provided that they've not already been chewed by a Praetor or the Reavers.

 

I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from either; first of all you say that the Valks lack AA, and then you say I have too much by adding in the Deredeo; when the Valks aren't even built for AA (if I was, I'd be running Vulture Punishers or Xiphons, or even just a Lightning with a set or three of autocannons or multilasers). The Lascannon is there to make them a viable threat if the opportunity arises, and I find the lone BS4 Lascannon to be more useful on a flyer, not to mention it being one that can actually deploy in Zooming mode and still deploy its guys; especially as I can roll twice on the chart and run for Moves Through Cover on Command Trait, because a 12" Move Through Cover, or Ld debuff, +1" Charge move, or rerolling 1's in CC are all really rather good traits.

 

I have flexibility with my deployment - between 4 available vehicles and 3 units with 1 IC, I can deploy as I see fit. If I know there's a Warhound coming, then the meltas get left until turn 2, and I try to go second. Warhound comes on, tries to D Strike a few things, likely succeeds. Hopefully Out of LoS Medusa, or a/the trio of Grav Rapiers or the Deredeo, or Grav Dread, or the Valkyries hit it to strip shields. The other option is to take an Augury Scanner, but it's contentious even with RACSD if a SWS can take an augury scanner after upgrading weapons. Followed by Venator once the shields are down, to stun lock it hopefully, then follow up with 9-10 Meltaguns, hitting on 3's (6-7 hits) potentially getting melta in, and potentially hitting rear armour, and just killing it that way. Patient hunter etc.

 

As to the Valks being used, they don't have to "feel" Heresy, any more than they're representative of a variant 30K flyer. Reconfigure a Storm Eagle model if you want. It has Missile Launchers under the wings (Hellstrike Missiles), a Twin-linked Heavy Bolter (nose mounted heavy bolter) and you can give it a pair of Lascannons on the side (Multi-laser/Lascannon), and the Missile Launchers on top of the hull (Rocket Pods). Only thing you can do is the side Heavy Bolters, unless you possibly mesh kits with a Fire Raptor. It allows for Macharius after all XD; "others simply be used to stand-in for one of the many, less widespread war machine types and unique patterns employed by a vast Imperial armed force".

 

I can't force you to agree with what feels "right"; after all we all have our own interpretation of how lists work etc. For example, with your lists, they look perfectly fine, but I can't put my finger on what to do to give them that killer edge, especially against the possibility of recieving a Warhound and walking away with a fair win chance. 

[Galron]

In my case(Vultures), I am just calling them navy support for my all infantry force who is heavily weighted for anti-armor work. Plus it gives me a chance for an alternate paint scheme besides silver, midnight blue, and metallic blue/green and puts a couple models still sitting in their bags to use finally.

 

I don't think there is anything particularly un-30k about them, the navy existed and had air support although I still haven't figured out why they have not allocated these and other ground support craft to the army as their own regiment. Seems to me that the constant cross coordination between army and navy especially for constant use for airborne units would be a logistics nightmare. Maybe that's something the Brits do. Ground forces since Viet Nam have had helicopter gunship support, which essentially is what the triple V series of aircraft are in essence, so there is no reason the Legions would be without light speedy gunships capable of VTOL as well. Yeah they have Fire Raptors which are more like AC130 Spectres than Apaches but there is definitely a hole in the quick light gunship role that Vultures fill. Vendettas sure, I can see them as well. Not sure where transports like the valk would fit in since the legions already have a decent variety of assault landing craft and marines do not fit very well in a valk.

 

Is there a way to bring an elysian-esque detachment at this time? It would justify having the valks and painting up some guardsmen for me anyway.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Sadly not yet; I'm hoping that a Siege Militia or Auxilia army allows me to utilise Hades Breaching Drills and/or Flyers is available in Book Vi. A "Wing Commander" that lets me take a load of Flyers; with something like a Marauder as a heavy support, and a Scouting/outflanking flyer with a lascannon and a pair of Hellstorm Template AP3 bombs seems incredible; especially if they get access to multiple bombs.

 

The closest you can get is a trio of Valks as Lord of War to a Solar Auxilia army and load in some Veletaris or Flamer units with a Lord Marshal  with Elite Veletaris. The rest of the Veletaris can jump in Arvus Lighters as per elites. Remember that all SA have Move Through Cover by standard, so they can Grav Chute without taking damage.

 

The problem with that; it requires a Lords of War slot, and one of the best things about SA is that they get Knights as a Lord of War in addition to Light Super Heavies like the Malcador as HS, as well as Tank Commander, and despite otherwise being brilliant as an allied unit (2 troop, 1 elite) they cannot fit within allied transports because stupid reasons so cannot jump in an empty Gold rank allied vehicle.

 

A list something like;

 

Lord Marshal (join elite Veletaris)

Tac Command, Arvus

Tac Command, Arvus

 

Medicae, x3 Extra

Veletaris, Arvus

Veletaris, Arvus

Veletaris, Arvus

 

Veletaris

Veletaris

Veletaris

 

FA Choose between any 3 of;

Tarantula Sentry Guns, Drop Capsules

Thunderbolt

Primaris-Lightning

 

HS; no Flyers available

 

Lords of War; 3 Valks

 

Because Primaris brings your only real AA, I'm going to suggest bringing those with 4x Penetrators, Strafing Run and Tank Hunters (210). The Lighters have no weapons, but is a flying Rhino; the cheapest decent weapon option IMHO is the TL Multilaser, because it's only BS3, but S6 can still hurt things like Rhino, Dreadnought or Medusa rear armour. Or park them in front of the Valks to give them a 4++.

 

Problem with that is that first turn, you only have 2 units on board. But they can Deep Strike in zooming mode, and with Blind Barrage gain a 2+ Cover Save. There's no Skyfire ignores cover that I can think of atm (although I think the Xiphon missile launcher should have it alongside Heatseeker to give it a niche).

 

It's around 2.5K points worth if you wanted to do that.

 

60 Volkite Chargers, 3 Valks, 6 Arvus, 3 Lightnings. 

[Charlo]

Justaerian got 5 man starting, up to 7 more & 2W.

 

Noice.

[Slips]

3 man starting. That hasnt changed and a 12 man squad makes no sense anyways.

[Marshal Loss]

No, they are now 5 man starting. It is the seven additional remaining from the old entry that is the mistake.

[depthcharge12]

Yup, 5 man, 255 points with two wounds and 7 additional Justaerin

[depthcharge12]

Also, shooty Justaerin got pretty good with +1 BS to assault and rapid fire weapons at 12", so load up on combi melta and combi plas!!!

[Stricken]

Also, shooty Justaerin got pretty good with +1 BS to assault and rapid fire weapons at 12", so load up on combi melta and combi plas!!!

What are the details to the new Merciless fighter rule?

[depthcharge12]

 

Also, shooty Justaerin got pretty good with +1 BS to assault and rapid fire weapons at 12", so load up on combi melta and combi plas!!!

What are the details to the new Merciless fighter rule?

What I've heard (not photo proof yet) is that all LA:SoH models with a shooting profile of a pistol, assault, or rapid fire gain +1 BS in 12" range or under.

 

Hello BS5 plasma drop squads :) Hello BS5 Justaerin with meltas :)

[Stricken]

So many new Possibilities (Hopefully) - What's that, BS 5 Melta Support squad.

[Sanct]

So many new Possibilities (Hopefully) - What's that, BS 5 Melta Support squad.

 

<cough cough> Combi reavers <cough cough>

[Stricken]

It's wish listing at this time but I hope Abby got Eternal Warrior with the update; I can only refresh a page so many times before I'm convinced this is an addiction.

[1ncarnadine]

No, they are now 5 man starting. It is the seven additional remaining from the old entry that is the mistake.

 

So just to update the community, Marshal Loss and I asked Alan Bligh about this and it is not a mistake. They are meant to be able to get to 12 to fill up a Spartan now.

 

No changes to Abby, or any SoH characters as far as I can tell.

 

depth is on the money with the new rule. Merciless Fighters itself was not changed. Instead, an extra special rule called Death Dealer was added. Models with the rule gain +1BS when shooting pistol, assault & rapid fire at 12" or less. Exceptions include Chain Fire, Fury of the Legion and when making overwatch.

 

that plus The Long March now make the SoH extremely powerful. 

Edited February 6, 2016 by LetsYouDown

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I was strongly considering SoH before I took my World Eaters but the tricky colour and lacklustre rules put me off.

 

Now? Holy hell they are looking tempting.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I'll have to doubke check, but I cannot rrmember if Abaddon is actually in Terminator Armour, IIRC he just has Relentless 2+/4++. Ie, not bulky. 12 Justaerin and Abaddon, tyvm. It is annoying that a unit cannot be taken with a character in a pod now. Edited February 6, 2016 by Hesh Kadesh

[1ncarnadine]

I'll have to doubke check, but I cannot rrmember if Abaddon is actually in Terminator Armour, IIRC he just has Relentless 2+/4++. Ie, not bulky. 12 Justaerin and Abaddon, tyvm. It is annoying that a unit cannot be taken with a character in a pod now.

 

He still technically does not have Terminator armour; just Relentless, and thus can sweep. He is listed as Bulky though, so can't quite slip in to the 25-person transport cap. Yeah it's unfortunate on the unit size for sure though. I like the idea of being able to fit 4 in a pod with Maloghurst more than I like the idea of 100% filling a Spartan.

 

Oh, also Tybalt Marr rules for anyone interested... Uhh, he's 175 points for a sub-Praetor statline (WS5 & A3), comes with artificer armour, iron halo, a banestrike bolt pistol and a "Cthonian Culling Blade." It's a Str User AP - weapon with Master-Crafted, Rending, Duellist's Edge and Murderous Strike. His WL Trait causes anything that deployed via Infiltrate or Scout within 24" of himself to take a pinning test at the start of the game.

 

Unsure on the interaction between Murderous Strike and Rending. Am I right in thinking that a Rend that wounds automatically can't possibly also be a Murderous Strike because it can't roll a 6? Hmmm.

Edited February 6, 2016 by LetsYouDown