[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[Charlo]

Fair enough, I figured Rads would even it out with FC and Power Axes letting me instant death other 2W terminators, this giving me a better way to crack the toughest of units. Plus FL can accept challenges with the 3++ :D just personal taste.

 

I figure air defence issnt worth it in this kind of list, other than something like Sunfury missiles I can't think of too much in the air that threatens my army enough to warrant spending the points. Plus Culverins can always shoot at a plane on a pinch, averaging 4 Hull points against AV12. They have interceptor to handle drop pods too.

 

Any ideas for the Vets, or keep as is? Seems out of place now to have them come in only to get off maybe 3 Melta shots then potentially die.

[depthcharge12]

I know you guys love your Forge Lord with Justaerin, but my weakness to fluff kicks in as I try to wrap my head around why one would be kickin it with Horus' elite :P

 

Can anyone think of any good fluff as to why he'd be tagging along?

[Hesh Kadesh]

As good as Justaerin are, it is still 80pts more. A BS5 Plasma pod is 80pts cheaper than a BS5 Plasma Justaerin Pod.

[Charlo]

I know you guys love your Forge Lord with Justaerin, but my weakness to fluff kicks in as I try to wrap my head around why one would be kickin it with Horus' elite :P

 

Can anyone think of any good fluff as to why he'd be tagging along?

Horus' head honcho for field repairs and such. Inducted into the Justaerian to make sure all thier equipment is the best as the warmaster deserves. Is as adept as curbstomping loyalists as he is tuning up plasma guns. Plus he's probably bay have a load of tactical data and such Horus would like to know while his bodyguard kicks the ever living hell out of whatever they encounter.

 

How's that?

[Galron]

Bob the Forge Lord is tired of sitting around in the rear with the gear and his separation date is coming up soon so Horus throws him a boon and lets him come to the field for once to see what its actually like. The Justaerian are there to make sure he doesn't do something stupid on his big day out.

[depthcharge12]

Bob the Forge Lord is tired of sitting around in the rear with the gear and his separation date is coming up soon so Horus throws him a boon and lets him come to the field for once to see what its actually like. The Justaerian are there to make sure he doesn't do something stupid on his big day out.

Lol that makes me think of the one guy who gets shot and then says, "Damn, I was two days from retirement..."

[PastelAvenger]

As good as Justaerin are, it is still 80pts more. A BS5 Plasma pod is 80pts cheaper than a BS5 Plasma Justaerin Pod.

You can't ignore the other benefits the extra 80pts gets you. Terminators are bound to get into assault.

[SMcaptainAurelius]

So what sort of lists are people drafting to make best use of the new BS boost off the drop pod?

 

Combi weapons on terminators, Justaerin and support squads seem like the way to go.

 

Are you going for the Drop pod assault rite of war and paying the two tactical squads as compulsory troops tax? Or going Pride of the Legion and filling your fast attack slots with three dreadclaws?

 

Some examples would be great.

[Charlo]

Pride would be better, as dreadclaws are more useful and less easy VPs for the enemy.

 

Plus Tacs are just bolters, the extra BS really goes the extra mile on Vets with sniper with hidden heavy/ special weapons.

[depthcharge12]

Better yet, run Mal to get vets and Reavers as troops instead.

 

I eased off of the drop pods (still running 3 though) as the new RoW makes the SoH incredibly mobile and deadly. I even dropped a dreadclaw off of my Reavers to give them JPs as fleet and crusader will do awesome things for them.

 

Also, take Javelins loaded for bear since with the new RoW, everything gets to reroll ones to hit first turn. So those 5 point HK missiles and Multi Meltas get to alpha strike reliably.

[SMcaptainAurelius]

Good point about Javelins. Hadn't thought of that. 

 

The standard setup is missiles over lascannons and multi meltas over heavy bolters right? Plus the HK missiles. The AV 11 I guess makes them a less likely to be blown out of the sky by bolters. Seem like a great unit to hunt side and rear shots. 

 

The fact Sons of Horus can reroll reserve rolls of 1 is great with all of this.

 

Back to Mal. The conventional wisdom before the most recent FAQ was to run him in a big fearless blob of Cataphractii as their inability to run and sweep meant his unit wasn't taking a penalty. Has that changed now that the Tartaros suits allow for sweeping and running? Where does he go now? 

 

And perhaps a silly question. Can you choose with Justaerin what mark of armour they're in?

 

Mal is cool for sure but if you sit on the side of the argument that think Vets > Reavers then it probably makes sense to go for pride and have vets and terminators as troops with freedom of choice for a different HQ choice than does a bit more in the game turns. I'm thinking a cheap chaplain with a furious charge vet squad with a handful of power weapons in a dreadclaw would be way more classic than Mal in a mob or terminators. 

 

So this is cool. 

 

Pride or Mal allows a limited drop assault backed up with Javelins. What else goes with that? What about heavy support?

 

You're combi melta terminators would be de meching a bunch of stuff so maybe plasma/melta predators to drop some templates? 

 

Has anyone drafted new lists?

[depthcharge12]

I don't know why everyone get caught up on not being able to sweep. Honestly, most assaults I've partaken in end within a turn with one side getting wiped or just get deadlocked with leadership. I'm not too worried about sticking him on a 20 man blob - though it does make a good case against that now what with getting crusader in the enemy's deployment zone.

 

Edit - I reworked my 2100 point list but I'm almost considering swapping out the leviathan for something else as I've yet to see them do anything of note other than soak up fire.

 

Maloghurst (140)

 

5 Justaerin (295)

+ MM, 1 combi melta, chainfist

+ Dreadclaw (100)

 

Apothecary (45)

 

18 tacticals (265)

+ Sgt w/PA/AA/MBs, vox

 

10 Reavers (262)

+ 2 PS, Sgt w/PF/AA, 7 chainaxes

+ Jump packs (75)

 

2 Javelin Speeders (170)

+ Missiles, MM

+ Missiles, MM

 

HSS (160)

+ 5 autocannons

 

Kharybdis (260)

 

Leviathan Dread (290)

+ Storm cannon, volkites, drill

+ Dread drop pod (65)

Edited February 21, 2016 by depthcharge12

[SMcaptainAurelius]

I don't know, it feels restrictive not having it. In your turn then being locked in combat is a good thing.

 

But in the enemy turn it'd also be good to have the option to try to wipe out a unit at the end of your opponent's assault phase. Especially if you've drop pod assaulted a couple of Justaerin units in against a whole army. They'll be targets everywhere so would be nice to completely end one and not have it distracting later. Feels quite Sons of Horus to utterly annihilate something too.

 

That's why I was curious about the Justaerin being able to have Tartaros armour. That reason is that after they've landed and used their +1BS combi meltas I wouldn't mind them being able to run in subsequent shooting phases.

 

On another note but still on the DPA theme, a friend has just told me you can't assault out of dreadclaws anymore, all very vague on which turn of the game this applies to. Is this true?

Edited February 21, 2016 by SMcaptainAurelius

[Lord Asvaldir]

I mean justerians are clearly stated to have cataphractii armor in their wargear, so there really is no way for them to have tartaros. I think cataphractii is better for them, I'd rather have the higher invul save for when that medusa might drop a pie plate on them. 

 

You most certainly can assault out of dreadclaws, it's still an assault vehicle. Nothing has changed about how they work. 

[depthcharge12]

I mean justerians are clearly stated to have cataphractii armor in their wargear, so there really is no way for them to have tartaros. I think cataphractii is better for them, I'd rather have the higher invul save for when that medusa might drop a pie plate on them.

 

You most certainly can assault out of dreadclaws, it's still an assault vehicle. Nothing has changed about how they work.

Yeah the extra ++ is better than sweeping unless you have AP2 at initiative. Most of the time, terminators go to kill things that usually kill quite a few fair back in return, and usually at the same initiative step.

[PastelAvenger]

You're friend is completely wrong. It doesn't say that anywhere in the rules at all. They are still an assault vehicle. There is a debate about something that Blighe said but it means nothing until the new Legion book is released.

 

Justaerin are in Cataphractii Armour by the way.

 

Depthcharge your Justaerin are out by 2pts combi weapons are still 7pts each.

 

Although the BS boost is nice you still need something other than troops to help out, infantry just die far too quick in 30k.

[SMcaptainAurelius]

Well that's good to hear.

 

On further interrogation he was referring to dreadnought drop pods and charging out of them first turn. As I understand it you have to disembark now but can't charge first turn? 

 

Also apologies for the glaringly obvious - can see the Cataphractii armour in the unit entry. 

 

Maybe a bit off topic but when is the new Legion book being released? Can be hard to keep up with it all!

[Lord Asvaldir]

I mean you've never been able to assault out of a DDP first turn, like everything else that just deep striked in-that is a standard rule. Nor do I believe you have to get out, that's kinda the whole point of DDP giving shrouded to the dreadnought if you stay in the pod, one reason double grav dreadnoughts work so well in a drop pod oriented SoH list-unless your drop pod is destroyed no one is charging your dreadnought with melta bombs. From what I've heard the only rules change with drop pods is you can no longer stay in the normal legion drop pod, you have to disembark when you land, which makes them not as good, though I'm so used to using them as normal 40k drop pods I've never seen that as an issue. 

 

New legion book is coming out within a few weeks I believe..

[Terminus]

Not true, you used to be able to charge out of DDPs on arrival.

 

If by legion book you mean the core list, that update will be a while coming. We still need to get the specific legions book and the militia/Auxilia/questoris red books.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Terminus

[Lord Asvaldir]

When was that?? I don't recall the DDP rules overriding the rule that you can't charge the turn you arrive from reserve. 

 

On the topic of SoH, I feel like with the new ballistic skill bonus SoH could do a drop pod assault army very well. Take Maloghurst and load up on reavers/veterans with a mix of combi weapons to maximize alpha strike, backed by a bunch of double grav dreadnoughts to deal with armor. Turn two you have justerians show up with a second wave of combi weapons to unleash, and you can give a few reavers jump packs so you have something that can start on the board. 

[Charlo]

It was a while back, maybe over a year ago but lots of people were contesting charging out of a pod and it did make sense back then.

 

Doesn't now though, thank God. Especially with the Leviathan rocking about...

[depthcharge12]

What do people think about reavers outflanking now and using combi weapons en masse?

[Charlo]

What do people think about reavers outflanking now and using combi weapons en masse?

Better than seekers if you ask me.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Problem with outflanking is there's a one in three chance of ending up on the wrong side of the board. If your opponent is really hugging one side, or just doesn't have any good targets close enough to one board edge, there's a chance your reavers second turn strike will be wasted. Taking a rhino would certainly help with that though, that way you can move 6, disembark, and move 6 more, so you've got anything up to 24" being in your threat range. I think I'd still prefer pods though due to having half your strike force show up turn one. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

It was a while back, maybe over a year ago but lots of people were contesting charging out of a pod and it did make sense back then.

 

Doesn't now though, thank God. Especially with the Leviathan rocking about...

You can charge out of a pod. Just not on the turn you DS.

 

With legion pods, you could pod in, and before the Jan 2016 FAQ you didn't have to disembark. So, Tac Squad pods in, takes a storm of interceptor/shooting phase turn from nearest enemies on AV12, gets a shooting phase, because open topped, before disembark and assault next turn.