++ Gods of the Arena - A World Eaters Community ++

[Plaguecaster]

Arnt people forgetting the army rules for the world eaters in the index that state berserkers in a world eaters detachment are troops instead of elites so it doesn't matter if the are only listed as an elite choice in the codex they will still be a troop choice regardless as I doubt GW will drop that rule Edited August 8, 2017 by Plaguecaster

[Panzer]

 

 

Is it true that World Eater Berzerkers aren't troops anymore?

Yes and no. The troop version Datasheets aren't in the Codex anymore but since GW told us to use the Index Datasheets if they aren't in the Codex it should still be okay. Especially because point costs etc. aren't part of the actual Datasheet.

 

The problem is that both "Khorne Berzerkers" datasheets will be replaced by the one in the codex.

 

So, unless something is in the codex that allows WE to take berzerkers as Troops, it looks like we're stuck with the Vanguard detachment.

 

Given how much better WE are getting, that's a price I'm willing to pay.

 

Who says so? There are two Datasheets. One for Elite slot Berzerker with an open Legion faction keyword and one for Troop slot Berzerker with a fix World Eater Legion faction keyword. There is no Troop slot Berzerker Datasheet in the codex so the one from the Index is still viable according to what GW told us several times now.

[THUNDERFISTS]

The indexes will eventually be overruled, it's a certainty. Just like Primaris marines are replacing old marines - GW isn't saying that because the fan rage will be too real, but give it a few years and you'll have the two camps of grumpy old marine players, and the throngs of Primaris whipper-snappers 

 

I also don't want to haul around an extra book with me, so pure Codex rules are fine with me. The tax of taking 40 extra points of cultists isn't bad at all so I really don't have a problem with it. If they FAQ Cult Troops back in, even better, it's really not a problem. 

[Hathis]

Juggernut: 

 

Your on a roll with the Leviathan, wish I could keep the same pace with mine, the axe is a nice touch fits perfect I must say, not to big and not to small 

On the gun part i combined the contemptor multimelta with it.

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

I'd be pretty shocked if Berzerkers were no longer troop choices in the new codex...has this been actually confirmed, or is it just speculation based on what's been leaked?

[Khornestar]

Juggernut: 

 

Your on a roll with the Leviathan, wish I could keep the same pace with mine, the axe is a nice touch fits perfect I must say, not to big and not to small 

On the gun part i combined the contemptor multimelta with it.

 

Thanks, Hathis! For the most part, I've been trying to slap parts (or chopped up pieces of parts) to do the work, but I'm just gonna have to sculpt. I enjoy the challenge, but it's frustrating when a certain detail is just holding me up for hours. Getting there, though!

 

*edit*

 

This is what I'm sculpting onto right now:

 

http://i.imgur.com/R3gP0GRh.jpg

Edited August 8, 2017 by Juggernut

[Berzerker88]

I'd be pretty shocked if Berzerkers were no longer troop choices in the new codex...has this been actually confirmed, or is it just speculation based on what's been leaked?

Pure speculation, the full Codex has not been leaked yet.

[THUNDERFISTS]

I'd be pretty shocked if Berzerkers were no longer troop choices in the new codex...has this been actually confirmed, or is it just speculation based on what's been leaked?

I just saw a conflicting point on FB that said Cult units can still be troops so...I guess we'll have to find out on Saturday for sure. 

[Cheex]

 

 

 

Is it true that World Eater Berzerkers aren't troops anymore?

Yes and no. The troop version Datasheets aren't in the Codex anymore but since GW told us to use the Index Datasheets if they aren't in the Codex it should still be okay. Especially because point costs etc. aren't part of the actual Datasheet.

The problem is that both "Khorne Berzerkers" datasheets will be replaced by the one in the codex.

 

So, unless something is in the codex that allows WE to take berzerkers as Troops, it looks like we're stuck with the Vanguard detachment.

 

Given how much better WE are getting, that's a price I'm willing to pay.

Who says so? There are two Datasheets. One for Elite slot Berzerker with an open Legion faction keyword and one for Troop slot Berzerker with a fix World Eater Legion faction keyword. There is no Troop slot Berzerker Datasheet in the codex so the one from the Index is still viable according to what GW told us several times now.

Why would only one datasheet be replaced, and how would you decide which one is replaced? You can't use battlefield role as the qualifier - what if a unit goes from being Fast Attack in the index to being Heavy Support in the codex? By your logic, it's not the same unit. What if the stats change and battlefield role stays the same? By your logic, again, it's a different unit, so didn't get replaced.

 

No, the only qualifier you can use is the datasheet name. Is there a datasheet in a newer publication with the same name? If yes, use the newer datasheet.

 

In any case, this may be a moot point if we still retain a rule that makes berzerkers into Troops anyway.

[Khornestar]

With respect, I understand there are situations where it is called for, but perhaps we're taking the "legality" of using berzerkers as troops a touch too seriously? Why would anyone have a problem with this arrangement? That being said, I did post a comment on GW's facebook page asking about it, along with something else that I now forget. Oh yeah, the Helbrute keyword thing and the double-tapping stratagem.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Juggernut

[Bloody Legionnaire]

There is so much speculation and spouting of misinformation going on in this thread... 

 

How many of you realize that on Pg. 45 of the index we see "World Eaters Army Rules." That have the rules/language stating a World Eaters Army can has Bezerkers with a changed battlefield role to troops? Until we see World Eaters get their own Codex or until we see the 8th edition CSM Codex state no cult units can be taken as troops (highly unlikely) the Index remains valid. GW has already said the Indexes will continue to be valid. If you don't like it or don't agree with it then you need to take that up with GW. They have already stated their position on the matter. The fact that a dataslate for Berzerkers is in the new CSM codex under elites means nothing because, as I've already stated, the rule establishing them as Troops is only in the Index. The index is also the ONLY book (that we know of so far) that gives World Eaters and EC and quite frankly DG and TS their own cult units as troops. The index is absolutely still valid! Do you really want to argue that DG will not have Plague Marines as troops.. and that TS will not have Rubrics.. Let's be realistic if not rational.

[Cheex]

There is so much speculation and spouting of misinformation going on in this thread... 

 

How many of you realize that on Pg. 45 of the index we see "World Eaters Army Rules." That have the rules/language stating a World Eaters Army can has Bezerkers with a changed battlefield role to troops? Until we see World Eaters get their own Codex or until we see the 8th edition CSM Codex state no cult units can be taken as troops (highly unlikely) the Index remains valid. GW has already said the Indexes will continue to be valid. If you don't like it or don't agree with it then you need to take that up with GW. They have already stated their position on the matter. The fact that a dataslate for Berzerkers is in the new CSM codex under elites means nothing because, as I've already stated, the rule establishing them as Troops is only in the Index. The index is also the ONLY book (that we know of so far) that gives World Eaters and EC and quite frankly DG and TS their own cult units as troops. The index is absolutely still valid! Do you really want to argue that DG will not have Plague Marines as troops.. and that TS will not have Rubrics.. Let's be realistic if not rational.

Now, that's a good point. Nothing that we have seen so far invalidates the World Eaters Army page in the Index. The Codex may well have a page that does, and that page may well have the same rule that makes berzerkers into Troops - and in the case that it doesn't, then the Index is still valid until GW says otherwise.

 

That said, the tone of your post suggests that the tone of my post was unclear. I wasn't arguing irrationally; merely pointing out that both of the "Khorne Berzerker" datasheets would be replaced.

 

However, you are right in that I had overlooked the important rule on the WE Army page.

[Cheex]

With respect, I understand there are situations where it is called for, but perhaps we're taking the "legality" of using berzerkers as troops a touch too seriously? Why would anyone have a problem with this arrangement? That being said, I did post a comment on GW's facebook page asking about it, along with something else that I now forget. Oh yeah, the Helbrute keyword thing and the double-tapping stratagem.

Why would anyone have a problem with it? Simple: berzerkers are awesome this edition, and I don't want to be perceived as bending the rules just so I can take more. It's not a matter of taking it too seriously; it's a matter of the common ground between two players (i.e. the rules) being as unambiguous as possible.

 

Thanks for raising the question with GW. Hopefully this will all be made clear when the Codex drops. And if the Codex doesn't make it clear, then hopefully GW will clarify via FAQ.

[Khornestar]

Yeah man, I guess I see where you're coming from. The fewer rules conflicts, the better, but we'll have our answer soon enough.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

 

Is it true that World Eater Berzerkers aren't troops anymore?

Yes and no. The troop version Datasheets aren't in the Codex anymore but since GW told us to use the Index Datasheets if they aren't in the Codex it should still be okay. Especially because point costs etc. aren't part of the actual Datasheet.

The problem is that both "Khorne Berzerkers" datasheets will be replaced by the one in the codex.

 

So, unless something is in the codex that allows WE to take berzerkers as Troops, it looks like we're stuck with the Vanguard detachment.

 

Given how much better WE are getting, that's a price I'm willing to pay.

Who says so? There are two Datasheets. One for Elite slot Berzerker with an open Legion faction keyword and one for Troop slot Berzerker with a fix World Eater Legion faction keyword. There is no Troop slot Berzerker Datasheet in the codex so the one from the Index is still viable according to what GW told us several times now.

Why would only one datasheet be replaced, and how would you decide which one is replaced? You can't use battlefield role as the qualifier - what if a unit goes from being Fast Attack in the index to being Heavy Support in the codex? By your logic, it's not the same unit. What if the stats change and battlefield role stays the same? By your logic, again, it's a different unit, so didn't get replaced.

 

No, the only qualifier you can use is the datasheet name. Is there a datasheet in a newer publication with the same name? If yes, use the newer datasheet.

 

In any case, this may be a moot point if we still retain a rule that makes berzerkers into Troops anyway.

 

To make it short: I completely disagree the way you see it as you disagree with the way I see it. It's pretty clear what a Datasheet is. Agree to disagree.

[Midnightmare]

@ Juggernut - your Levi is immense!!

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

Anyone had much luck running Raptors or Warp Talons? They seem like they could be good with the legion +1A combined with some of the strategems (thinking they're a prime candidate for the Khorne fight twice strat). Mainly looking to use them to disrupt gunlines for a turn or 2 while the 'zerks drive up the board. 

 

Strongly considering getting a couple of boxes and painting them up in Destroyers' black...

[Prot]

I wish raptors/ Warp talons could take the icon. I haven't fully committed to any Chaos army out of this book and I just finished painting Khârn, but I found the army so difficult out of the gate. Also living in one phase of the game can feel very limiting.

 

I suppose this means I ( just speaking for myself) would have to accept that phase compromises 90% of my game or start using oblits and shoots units in the lists in an attempt for better balance. ( I actually don't know if that's a legal WE list idea come this Saturday).

 

What I did was try mixing in my Daemons...specifically Bloodthirsters, Bloodletters, hounds, and Bloodcrushers... yes, essentially recreating KDK. But unfortunately it played horribly. Conscript blob Astra easily rips it apart.

 

I'm starting to think it is an international design flaw to stop people from excelling with 'pure' assault lists. And I understand why.... it's because they want shooty armies which are the majority, to have a lot of fun and not feel trapped in T 1 of every game.

 

So come Saturday I really wonder if this will change. Perhaps WE are meant to be more diverse... to play with shooting elements, and mixed armies ?

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

Honestly, I find the challenge of getting guys into assault range to be part of the fun for this army, and you do definitely need some sort of supporting element to make sure that happens. Like you said, a 'pure' assault army sort of handicaps itself out the door. That said, things like Land Raiders and Spartans are really great for us in particular, as they not only help fill our need for ranged firepower, but they do double duty to get their payload safely to enemy lines. In other words, the shooting part of your army, which I think we definitely do need, doesn't necessarily have to detract from the assault part of your army.

 

Of course that does end up being a huge point sink at the end of the day, but I've found it to be worth it in the few 8th edition games I've played thus far.

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

Just finished painting the first of 4 Berzerker champs, thought I'd share here.

[Prot]

That's a fine job. You've inspired me to look at some of the left over stuff from my BaC box. :tu:

[Khornestar]

That WE torso also looks really good in red. I might have to pick up a set, to diversify my goons.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Is there any fluff about close combat World Eaters wearing MkIII? I've seen some pretty amazing WE/Berzerker conversions utilizing MkIII components. 

 

I really don't want to convert up some Berzerkers but GW is taking SO long releasing new Marines and new Berzerkers I feel I might have too. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Bloody Legionnaire

[Kizzdougs]

Is there any fluff about close combat World Eaters wearing MkIII? I've seen some pretty amazing WE/Berzerker conversions utilizing MkIII components. 

 

I really don't want to convert up some Berzerkers but GW is taking SO long releasing new Marines and new Berzerkers I feel I might have too. 

The Triarii would have been equiped with a lot of MkIII and I'm guessing that they probably still use a fair bit of it.

[Extropian]

I wish raptors/ Warp talons could take the icon. I haven't fully committed to any Chaos army out of this book and I just finished painting Khârn, but I found the army so difficult out of the gate. Also living in one phase of the game can feel very limiting.

 

I suppose this means I ( just speaking for myself) would have to accept that phase compromises 90% of my game or start using oblits and shoots units in the lists in an attempt for better balance. ( I actually don't know if that's a legal WE list idea come this Saturday).

 

What I did was try mixing in my Daemons...specifically Bloodthirsters, Bloodletters, hounds, and Bloodcrushers... yes, essentially recreating KDK. But unfortunately it played horribly. Conscript blob Astra easily rips it apart.

 

I'm starting to think it is an international design flaw to stop people from excelling with 'pure' assault lists. And I understand why.... it's because they want shooty armies which are the majority, to have a lot of fun and not feel trapped in T 1 of every game.

 

So come Saturday I really wonder if this will change. Perhaps WE are meant to be more diverse... to play with shooting elements, and mixed armies ?

 

There's no erason at all that World Eaters can't take shooting. There's a LOT of examples of heavy weapons and vehicles being used by therm in the fluff. It's not exactly their specialty but they use Havocs, tanks etc still.

 

They just have a preference for chopping people up. A strong preference granted, but it's not 100% of what they are. They are perfectly happy blowing people to bits if they can't reach you with an axe.