++ Gods of the Arena - A World Eaters Community ++

[Berzerker88]

A Khorne/World Eater Daemon Prince will still just do fine thaking the Talisman of Burning Blood is a nice pro.

 

What do you think about the Brass Collar? It could certainly help mitigate the psychic disadvantage. Though in general the Talisman is probably better.

[Commissar K.]

 

A Khorne/World Eater Daemon Prince will still just do fine thaking the Talisman of Burning Blood is a nice pro.

What do you think about the Brass Collar? It could certainly help mitigate the psychic disadvantage. Though in general the Talisman is probably better.

 

I like it as a potential secondary Artefact but at the same time I also think that Scorn of Sorcery is easier to use. For things that are essentially defensive I tend to believe that easier defense always wins out on model specific defences with the particular area of effect in question for the Brass Collar to actually do something. It could indeed damage the potential Psyker in question but the massive advantage of Scorn of Sorcery is that its 24" of any World Eater unit and negated on a 4+.

If we for example look at stronger Psykers, such as Tzeentch (and likely others) we also see that they have ways to manipulate their Psycic Power outcome. The moment we have to deal with that (and often we really want to) we're still forced to beat them at their own game.

 

So since we often only have one Artefact to choose from, two if you really want to, I'm inclined to put the Brass Collar on spot number three in terms of relevancy. Where the Talisman of Burning Blood and other weapon upgrades, such as the Axe of Blind Fury, come on spot number one and two. 

 

Now I have to say this is with a little bit of assumption that others have ways to manipulate their Psycic Powers if they deem them to be really relevant. The thing is that if opponents roll high on their Psycic Powers I usually prefer a 50/50 shot anywhere on the field versus beating that within the area of the Brass Collar character. AoS has a compairable design for one of the artefacts and one of the reasons it gets rarely to never used is because Blood Tithe points remained there and give a very similar effect to the Strategems in question. 

[Commissar K.]

So with the Codex out now for a while I wanted to cover the updates once more and the positive effects they have on World Eater armies. In general I think the updated costs and changes could easily be a whole topic on it's own but the relation of their effect on armies truely massively differs per Legion. So much that I'd rather discuss this topic per Legion topic instead of one massive 'change A + Legion X + Effect Y'.

First of a nice list of the changes is something I believe will benifit every World Eater player so here we go:
++ UNITS ++
- First things first, Khârn went from 174 to 160 which in itself is great. I believe our World Eater specific Warlord Trait is not good but running Khârn remains a great plan because our Lefion Trait is fine and our other Artefact and Warlord Trait options are fine also. So for all who question themselves, is he worth it? Yes, a charging Khârn is most certainly worth 160 points.
- Chaos Bikers went from 31 to 25 so thake that if you feel like it.
- Chaos Cultists went from 5 to 4, in general I think World Eater Cultists are not bad. You keep the Flamers, pistol and weapon and I think we're rolling fine with a squad of 20. 
- Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour went from 122 to 105, was allready a decent choice, certainly cooler with a Axe of Blind Fury.
- Chaos Predator went from 102 to 90, sweet deal, allready was a solid choice.
- Chaos Vindicator went from 160 to 135, still very limited in it's attacks so I dont think it's worth it. Likely would have considered it more if it was around 100.
- Defiler had a very cool drop, went from 216 to 152, which seems like a very viable option now.
- Khorne Lord of Skulls is another very cool drop, from 465 to 365, it is just a 30-ish points over the Kytan base cost so I think the KLoS got exactly what he needed if you want to have a centerpiece and dont mind the 570 orso points for it. It can be much more expensive but I really don't feel it needs to be, that ranged offense is legit anyway.
- Maulerfiend got a minor drop, from 149 to 140.
- Mutilators went from 65 to 50, still not relevant to us though.
- Obliterators had a special change so I wanted to mention it, it's still 65 points but from Assault 2 to 4 is legit. I will play these guys now this edition!
- Then Warpsmith got a massive drop aswell from 78 to 45, however we have have great HQ choices so I can't really see myself using it.
- Bloodletters went to 7, which is cool but so far I havnt found a great reason to bring myself to hassle in Daemons. If they get their Codex Im sure a Daemon Detachment becomes a more interesting aspect.

All in all I think the top 5 changes to me are Obliterators, Khârn, Cultists, Predator and suprisingly the Lord of Skulls. Especially the first four mentioned are changes I feel we should all at least in one game profit from. 
 
++ MELEE WEAPONS ++
- Daemonic Axe went from 45 to 10.
- Helforged Sword went from 42 to 10.
- Lightning Claws went from 9/13 to 8/12 but I think that for the Berzerker Champ the Power Fist still beats it, granted it's a good competition.
- Power Fist went from 20 to 12, as we all can probably agree, even more reason to include one.

So nothing too massively significant. I think you don't have to feel bad for the Daemon Prince now but I personally like the Talons too much still. Likewise I think the Claw and Fist change is excellent. 

++ RANGED WEAPONS ++
- Baleflamer went from 60 to 30, Heldrake fans rejoice.
- Hades Autocannon went from 33 to 25, always nice.
- Soulreaper cannon went from 30 to 25.

Some changes that are really hard to notice, the discount on the Baleflamer remains nice.

++ OTHER WARGEAR ++
- Daemonic Icon went from 25 to 15. However as above Im not sold on Daemons just yet. 

http://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/e4/4d/e44ddff1-a059-4541-9a11-32c1e73e00bb/re02_preview.jpg

With many of the changes I think that we're open to a whole slew of tactics that are very cool and flavourful. While Im still somewhat upset about the fact that we don't have the melee owning Daemon Prince I might still give the Daemonic Axe Daemon Prince a go now also. Just to see how I like it.
As above the units I am very eager to test out are basically all that recieved a significant discount or bonus. In general I think fans of the World Eater narrative and Army Rules will continue to have their backbone in Berzerkers so ranged support remains essential to guarantee the succes of this tactic. This to me really is where Obliterators could come in as a big change up. Their deep strike tactics and durability is something I can certainly enjoy as it usually will force out an melee awnser as it's actually quite difficult to outshoot Obliterators now. This is a type of tactic that I would forsee mixing up extremely well with that of Berzerkers. 

The Legion Trait we have is pretty much decent for anything so that's a big plus. As before I cannot see myself playing Bikers for 25 points either but it's certainly a nice drop in the right direction and with their likely charge the attack bonus is welcome. Likewise all Helbrutes are unlikely charging candidates in my book but again an additional attack is betetr as say re-rolling Morale . If you for example have acces to a Sorcerer with Warp Time and want to use World Eater Warp Talons then that idea seems completely legit to me. 

The Stratagems are great allround, granted Fury of Khorne feels like trap unless we're talking idiotic large Berzerker units. I do not dislike Scorn of Sorcery but offcourse ideally somewhere a Sorcerer is still added to simply provide some great support, offense and defence. Veterans of the Long War is a great Stratagem also for the simple reason that in theory it could allow your Berzerkers to beat up Vechicles that much easier. 
Cross Chaos Legion comparison I will however have to say that World Eaters or Khorne for that matter arn't as blessed as some marks and Legions. Still with the World Eater Legion Trait being what it is I do believe we have the army leverage to make it still work out well.

Looking forward to more opinions and/or new plans!

Cheers,


 

Edited August 19, 2017 by Commissar K.

[Berzerker88]

 

 

A Khorne/World Eater Daemon Prince will still just do fine thaking the Talisman of Burning Blood is a nice pro.

 

What do you think about the Brass Collar? It could certainly help mitigate the psychic disadvantage. Though in general the Talisman is probably better.

I like it as a potential secondary Artefact but at the same time I also think that Scorn of Sorcery is easier to use. For things that are essentially defensive I tend to believe that easier defense always wins out on model specific defences with the particular area of effect in question for the Brass Collar to actually do something. It could indeed damage the potential Psyker in question but the massive advantage of Scorn of Sorcery is that its 24" of any World Eater unit and negated on a 4+.

If we for example look at stronger Psykers, such as Tzeentch (and likely others) we also see that they have ways to manipulate their Psycic Power outcome. The moment we have to deal with that (and often we really want to) we're still forced to beat them at their own game.

So since we often only have one Artefact to choose from, two if you really want to, I'm inclined to put the Brass Collar on spot number three in terms of relevancy. Where the Talisman of Burning Blood and other weapon upgrades, such as the Axe of Blind Fury, come on spot number one and two.

Now I have to say this is with a little bit of assumption that others have ways to manipulate their Psycic Powers if they deem them to be really relevant. The thing is that if opponents roll high on their Psycic Powers I usually prefer a 50/50 shot anywhere on the field versus beating that within the area of the Brass Collar character. AoS has a compairable design for one of the artefacts and one of the reasons it gets rarely to never used is because Blood Tithe points remained there and give a very similar effect to the Strategems in question.

Can't you use them both though? Try to deny with the Brass Collar and use Scorn of Sorcery with another unit if it fails?

 

I ask because I was considering to give the BCoB to my Dark Apostle but not sure if it's worth the extra command point (I already have the Talisman).

 

EDIT: Also, why insist on World Eaters sorcerers? The Army rules pretty much force all your models to have the <KHORNE> keyword, so I don't think they're legal. Unless you take an allied detachment with it's own Sorcerers, but then you'd have to pick another Legion for it (and wouldn't make for a very fluffy army, IMHO).

Edited August 20, 2017 by Berzerker88

[Commissar K.]

 

Can't you use them both though? Try to deny with the Brass Collar and use Scorn of Sorcery with another unit if it fails?

 

I ask because I was considering to give the BCoB to my Dark Apostle but not sure if it's worth the extra command point (I already have the Talisman).

 

Its a good question but I do think this is possible as Scorn of Sorcery is not a Deny the witch roll. Keep in mind that effect can usually be only done once as per Deny the Witch rules, assumming the collar effect resolves as usual Deny the Witch effect.

 

I personally skip on the collar because I like Talisman and I like Axe of Blind Fury a lot, though if you want to stack on effects I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible.

[Berzerker88]

 

Can't you use them both though? Try to deny with the Brass Collar and use Scorn of Sorcery with another unit if it fails?

I ask because I was considering to give the BCoB to my Dark Apostle but not sure if it's worth the extra command point (I already have the Talisman).

 

Its a good question but I do think this is possible as Scorn of Sorcery is not a Deny the witch roll. Keep in mind that effect can usually be only done once as per Deny the Witch rules, assumming the collar effect resolves as usual Deny the Witch effect.

I personally skip on the collar because I like Talisman and I like Axe of Blind Fury a lot, though if you want to stack on effects I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible.

Who do you give the axe to? Juggerlord?

[Commissar K.]

 

 

 

A Khorne/World Eater Daemon Prince will still just do fine thaking the Talisman of Burning Blood is a nice pro.

What do you think about the Brass Collar? It could certainly help mitigate the psychic disadvantage. Though in general the Talisman is probably better.

I like it as a potential secondary Artefact but at the same time I also think that Scorn of Sorcery is easier to use. For things that are essentially defensive I tend to believe that easier defense always wins out on model specific defences with the particular area of effect in question for the Brass Collar to actually do something. It could indeed damage the potential Psyker in question but the massive advantage of Scorn of Sorcery is that its 24" of any World Eater unit and negated on a 4+.

If we for example look at stronger Psykers, such as Tzeentch (and likely others) we also see that they have ways to manipulate their Psycic Power outcome. The moment we have to deal with that (and often we really want to) we're still forced to beat them at their own game.

So since we often only have one Artefact to choose from, two if you really want to, I'm inclined to put the Brass Collar on spot number three in terms of relevancy. Where the Talisman of Burning Blood and other weapon upgrades, such as the Axe of Blind Fury, come on spot number one and two.

Now I have to say this is with a little bit of assumption that others have ways to manipulate their Psycic Powers if they deem them to be really relevant. The thing is that if opponents roll high on their Psycic Powers I usually prefer a 50/50 shot anywhere on the field versus beating that within the area of the Brass Collar character. AoS has a compairable design for one of the artefacts and one of the reasons it gets rarely to never used is because Blood Tithe points remained there and give a very similar effect to the Strategems in question.

Can't you use them both though? Try to deny with the Brass Collar and use Scorn of Sorcery with another unit if it fails?

 

I ask because I was considering to give the BCoB to my Dark Apostle but not sure if it's worth the extra command point (I already have the Talisman).

 

EDIT: Also, why insist on World Eaters sorcerers? The Army rules pretty much force all your models to have the <KHORNE> keyword, so I don't think they're legal. Unless you take an allied detachment with it's own Sorcerers, but then you'd have to pick another Legion for it (and wouldn't make for a very fluffy army, IMHO).

 

So yeah using them both seems legit, as the Stratagem is used during manifistation (which is even before Deny the Witch).

 

WE Sorcerers are available if we 'must' ignore the Army Rules in Index, something I dont recommend but what was suggested by someone at 40Ks Facebook a while ago. As the Codex again doesnt cover any of those rules.

 

As before, page 116 Codex. Psykers cant thake Khorne. World Eaters must have Khorne if they have the option.

 

 

 

Can't you use them both though? Try to deny with the Brass Collar and use Scorn of Sorcery with another unit if it fails?

I ask because I was considering to give the BCoB to my Dark Apostle but not sure if it's worth the extra command point (I already have the Talisman).

Its a good question but I do think this is possible as Scorn of Sorcery is not a Deny the witch roll. Keep in mind that effect can usually be only done once as per Deny the Witch rules, assumming the collar effect resolves as usual Deny the Witch effect.

I personally skip on the collar because I like Talisman and I like Axe of Blind Fury a lot, though if you want to stack on effects I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible.

Who do you give the axe to? Juggerlord?

 

Yep or Chaos Lord on Bike/Termy armour. Basically I dont mind an additional mini Khârn :P

[Berzerker88]

@Commissar K True, and you could even go crazy and take Emperor's Children Berzerkers that always fight first (and have that extra attacks on kill stratagem) for extra craziness. That's why I agree with your hypothesis that the Army rules have to still be valid. But I guess we will be sure once the FAQ comes out.

[Cryptix]

Anyone have any idea to convert the lord of contagion to be less nurgley? I was thinking of using him to represent a Chaos Lord in Terminator with the AoBF. My first conversions would be to remove the censers and the icon, cut off the haft of the axe right before and right after his left hand before putting them together again, rotate the right hand holding the axe 90 degrees, cut away the gut and sculpt an armor plate, replace the Nurglings with Skulls, slap two bolter barrels on the now empty left hand and shave away any of the fly iconography.

 

TL;DR make him mirror Voldus' pose, replace rotting guts with a plate, shave/cut away Nurgle iconography and bob's your uncle.

[Rodrick]

Anyone have any idea to convert the lord of contagion to be less nurgley? I was thinking of using him to represent a Chaos Lord in Terminator with the AoBF. My first conversions would be to remove the censers and the icon, cut off the haft of the axe right before and right after his left hand before putting them together again, rotate the right hand holding the axe 90 degrees, cut away the gut and sculpt an armor plate, replace the Nurglings with Skulls, slap two bolter barrels on the now empty left hand and shave away any of the fly iconography.

 

TL;DR make him mirror Voldus' pose, replace rotting guts with a plate, shave/cut away Nurgle iconography and bob's your uncle.

in the same topic, what do you guys think about converting a Death Watch claplain into dark apostle?

 

[Khornestar]

I think both ideas could work great. The nurgle conversion will probaby be more work, though. That chaplain seems to make a nice plastic base to work with, as opposed to the finecast apostle, who is awesome in his own right but cutting away all those details would be a shame.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Juggernut

[Commissar K.]

Anyone have any idea to convert the lord of contagion to be less nurgley? I was thinking of using him to represent a Chaos Lord in Terminator with the AoBF. My first conversions would be to remove the censers and the icon, cut off the haft of the axe right before and right after his left hand before putting them together again, rotate the right hand holding the axe 90 degrees, cut away the gut and sculpt an armor plate, replace the Nurglings with Skulls, slap two bolter barrels on the now empty left hand and shave away any of the fly iconography.

Great plan, filling up the rot holes is also a great plan for that. I personally would go for the FW WE champ but simply to save time. I think this conversion can be really cool. Its a lot of time but you can really smooth it down and have a nice guy with an axe and wicked cape.

 

 

in the same topic, what do you guys think about converting a Death Watch claplain into dark apostle?

 

Seems great to me, ideally Id use a different chest plate.

 

I personally also think that if you can find him the World Eater Aspiring Champion model of the past has that pose that seems like he's screaming. So in my opinion he's only a screaming head away from being a really cool Dark Apostle. 

 

http://www.cardplace.ru/uploads/cardplace/ecb287ff/m1241220_99060102123_CSMWrldEtrChmpboltchainaxemain_873x627.jpg

 

The real quest start on where to find him.

[MoK]

I've got all three of the metal Khorne Aspiring Champuons who are going to be my Exalted Champions. Gonna have to butcher them a bit though to give them those Power Fists.

[Berzerker88]

WE ARE OFICIALLY TROOPS!!!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/20/chaos-space-marines-and-grey-knights-updates-now-availablegw-homepage-post-4/

[Commissar K.]

WE ARE OFICIALLY TROOPS!!!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/20/chaos-space-marines-and-grey-knights-updates-now-availablegw-homepage-post-4/

All the hate I recieved on this last week can now be brushed off :P

[MoK]

Phew. Just need Battle Scribe to update.

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

Woohoo! And they've fixed letting us take psykers.

[Commissar K.]

Woohoo! And they've fixed letting us take psykers.

Love it from the narrative standpoint. However it is a massive boost for us as an army. Especially because it all adds up to being great at claiming Objectives also. As we will have our Berzerkers near enemy lines anyway.

 

Plus an additional attack on charge for a Daemon Prince is a wonderful prospect. So now I'm seriously considering wether or not to thake the Daemonic Axe. The prime reason being that the option to have those additional attacks from our Legion Trait and likely Warlord Trait in combination with Talisman are actually quite big.

 

While the subject of Obliterators doesnt seem to popular here just yet I'm actually 100% sure on thaking them, especially in combination with a Daemon Prince to use them as a timely meatshield that messes things up from enough range to matter.

 

All in all this is a glorious day for thaking a skull!

[Brother Aiwass]

With 4 shots oblits are pretty decent now imho. Since I don't like the models, I'm considering converting terminators dual wielding reaper autocannons :D

[Commissar K.]

With 4 shots oblits are pretty decent now imho. Since I don't like the models, I'm considering converting terminators dual wielding reaper autocannons

Same here, something has to be done with those models, parts of it are nice, but the head is just too terrible to look at! Ive also played with the idea to give them some Forgefiend weapons as one arm and a massive claw for the other... Or something... That's for later, now Im fully enjoying the fact that our Berzerkers just recieved a great and logical update.

 

What's your thake on a Daemon Prince of Khorne Warlord with Talisman, Daemonic Axe and additional attack Warlord Trait? Im not the best at crunching those numbers but I have a gut feeling it might actually be a stronger consideration as the Talons, by large because that additional Strength makes the difference against pretty much all Vechicles and MEQs right?

[MoK]

I'm just happy that I can now run two Battalions and get those extra Command Points.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

WE ARE OFICIALLY TROOPS!!!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/20/chaos-space-marines-and-grey-knights-updates-now-availablegw-homepage-post-4/

All the hate I recieved on this last week can now be brushed off

 

As soon as I read the article my first thought was "Commissar K and I have a lot of 'I told you so's' in order" Very happy about this news and to know we were right!

[Commissar K.]

 

As soon as I read the article my first thought was "Commissar K and I have a lot of 'I told you so's' in order" Very happy about this news and to know we were right!

 

 

It's only a great thing to happen. More importantly it still means that the Index is indeed as relevant as ever. Which is not to say that it might not be relevant in the near future when all the Codex are fleshed out but at least we do know that the Index Army Rules directly port over to the Codex for as much as is narratively possible.

I am holding by breath however for the Death Guard Codex because if they do the same approach there another round of Chaos unclearity is up and running again. The sad part in this is that communication within our community really doesn't get better from this as it's a yes vs no with either party not being happy with the content in terms of clearity.

 

What I am very happy with here is that Berzerker Troops make a massive difference for us, dare I say more difference as Noise Marines for Emperor's Children. The prime reason being that claiming objectives for Berzerker Troops suprisingly is a task very suited to them. So far in many of my games we have come to a point where either party will sit around an Objective and unless you have the ranged superiority standing still and shooting at that unit usually will not win you the game.

This leads to the depth of this small rules change not only being the narratively correct thing to do but it also finally means that our army becomes very good at what it in terms of narrative did very well also.

 

For sure our business is mindless slaughter but we do get the job done because of it. As claiming objectives with melee orientated units really is a second nature to them.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Commissar K.

[Panzer]

 

 

As soon as I read the article my first thought was "Commissar K and I have a lot of 'I told you so's' in order" Very happy about this news and to know we were right!

 

 

It's only a great thing to happen. More importantly it still means that the Index is indeed as relevant as ever. 

 

Nah, it only means they screwed up and forgot to add something into the Codex that we had in the Index already. If the Index were still relevant, they could just have referenced the Index instead.

 

That being said the only things that the Index still has to offer for CSM are the mounted HQ Datasheets which should be useable according to GW since they didn't get replaced by new Codex Datasheets. Tho they should really write it into the FAQ to make it "officially official".

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

 

 

As soon as I read the article my first thought was "Commissar K and I have a lot of 'I told you so's' in order" Very happy about this news and to know we were right!

 

 

It's only a great thing to happen. More importantly it still means that the Index is indeed as relevant as ever. 

 

Nah, it only means they screwed up and forgot to add something into the Codex that we had in the Index already. If the Index were still relevant, they could just have referenced the Index instead.

 

That being said the only things that the Index still has to offer for CSM are the mounted HQ Datasheets which should be useable according to GW since they didn't get replaced by new Codex Datasheets. Tho they should really write it into the FAQ to make it "officially official".

 

Lol.. you guys and your refusal to accept that the index is still valid make me laugh. This is something I brought up in a different thread, but, since GW didn't clarify anything for Plague Marines and Rubric Marines I guess DG and TS are screwed till they get their codex, right?