++ Gods of the Arena - A World Eaters Community ++

[Sagentus]

Managed to get my next Bez champ looking how i want him. bit more GS work and he's ready :)

modified a BT PF and put a khorne symbol on it :D

Has anyone got the next Daemon Codex yet or had any more ideas on good combo's we can take?

[Commissar K.]

Looks very cool!

[Sagentus]

Cheers Commissar ... any more news or theories for the new Daemon codex with Khorne? 

[Commissar K.]

Cheers Commissar ... any more news or theories for the new Daemon codex with Khorne? 

Well nothing not discussed before. Being able to deepstrike a Lord of Skulls seems like a strong plan. The few GK you might encounter are extra sad because we can now also return something like a Lord of Skulls for free (well 2 CP), full wounds IF a Grey Knight decided to thake it out.

But generally the new plan for me is 2x Rhino Berzerker units and 2x 30 Bloodletters and basically sprinkle in what I can to ensure that it all can be fielded.

 

What I love about the general Daemon Codex is that it basically removed the requirment for 'anti-tank' ranged choices. I mean if you want to deal with Razorback spam and the like just drop a Bloodletters where you want to deal with the issue at the point.

Now having said that all I do have the gut feeling there is an errata comming to at least prevent a Lord of Skulls to benifit from this all too. Not that the LoS is that strong but man, the fact that GK can't even remove it normally or the thing comming out of nowhere is a bit too much even for my liking. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by Commissar K.

[Sagentus]

Sounds interesting with that many Bez/bloodletters running riot. 60 Bloodletters is a lot to paint lol. 

 

I think there will be an errata on the LoS, or even LoW in general. Imagine the devistation morty and Magnus popping up where they want for 2 CP. Interested to hear peoples experiences when they start using the new CP deepstrike rules with Daemons

 

what i do like is it does give us khorne players the chance to make our daemonkin armies and them working nicely

[Cryptix]

Sounds interesting with that many Bez/bloodletters running riot. 60 Bloodletters is a lot to paint lol. 

 

I think there will be an errata on the LoS, or even LoW in general. Imagine the devistation morty and Magnus popping up where they want for 2 CP. Interested to hear peoples experiences when they start using the new CP deepstrike rules with Daemons

 

what i do like is it does give us khorne players the chance to make our daemonkin armies and them working nicely

Dragon Red Undercoat -> Army Painter Dark Tone Dip -> Paint blades and horns as desired.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Cryptix

[Commissar K.]

Sounds interesting with that many Bez/bloodletters running riot. 60 Bloodletters is a lot to paint lol.

 

I think there will be an errata on the LoS, or even LoW in general. Imagine the devistation morty and Magnus popping up where they want for 2 CP. Interested to hear peoples experiences when they start using the new CP deepstrike rules with Daemons

 

what i do like is it does give us khorne players the chance to make our daemonkin armies and them working nicely

Yeah well see how that one pans out! I believe it might stick though. Considering 10 Slaanesh Terminators with Combi Plasma has not been adressed either. Thats 500+ points that can double fire with their Stratagem. Likewise Berzerkers can still deep strike with Alpha Legion Strat and again the output those have is compairable to well, Mort or Magnus or LoS doing the same.

 

My reason to even go deeper in with Bloodletters is also AoS though. I eventually plan to have 90, so happy that they cover both systems. Its indeed a lot of clean up and even converting but Bloodletters are amazing in AoS so as a Khorne player of all systems Im pretty much going that way allready. In addition its actually more work for me to convert all the Berzekers. There Im using Raptor legs, FW torso, helmet and shoulders, CSM arms and FW chain axes.

 

As you said its wonderful to be able to play mono Khorne or Slaanesh or Nurgle now. Tzeentch will be able next month once their Thousand Sons Codex hits in feb.

 

The one thing I do wonder about is what the after affect of this soup 8th will be. Its not like 40k players (especially Chaos) have a disdain for it altogether but I do see A LOT of Space Marine chapter players not being a huge fan.

 

Having said that as a Chaos player I might be biased also. For example if I where playing Imperium I would not be able to skip on Assassins or Sly Marbo, thats just so cool. Now Chaos certainly doesnt need that but I think the most logical way for new Daemonic Heralds to appear in a non support fashion would be to design them as assassins. I feel that Skulltaker actually is one for Khorne allready.

[Sagentus]

True, there is a lot of things that GW has not amended and maybe they wont. Like you say getting DS bez with alpha legion is crazy and half makes me want an alpha legion army (as much as the lord of khorne would love to have my head for that). 

 

I can see the apeal of the mass bloodletters from a gaming perspective, especially when it gives you such a brutal footprint on the board, but i think i'll try and mix it up a bit. Maybe 30 bloodletters, LoS, skullcannon or bloodthirster (not sure which BT is best).   

 

It does seem like soup armies are the key to 8th ed, but i think that is intended. It means you are going to buy models from different ranges, which might entise you to start a different army all together. 

 

Hmm, a skull taker acts like an assasin. Not overly keen on the model, but i might build one of them if they are affective ;) 

[Commissar K.]

Time certainly will tell. I think one of the reasons why Chaos is also so strong right now is because it's getting close to have every Index entry covered with an actual Codex, thus Stratagems, Artefacts and Warlord traits and all that. This matters a lot. Stratagems really are the new key to succes for everybody. Khorne Daemons without deep strike options would simply said not be interesting enough. Because unlike Tyranids and Orks they actually do not have the durability to footslog with everything and still be relevant. 

I think a mix of things will work fine too. I just like the big Bloodletters because indeed footprint matters, but the numbers do aswell. Best of all is that they number so many you can rely on them for quite a while if there is enough other threat presure, like Berzerkers in Rhinos.

Where I completely agree is that the soup seems very much intended. As before though I think it's also because the designers seem to go for a narrative heavy inspiration and the narrative is full of these types of armies. Afterall even Space Marine armies are now composed of non-Primaris and Primaris Space Marines. It's hard to envision one army only using one type of unit. 

One cool conversion option for a Skulltaker could be done by thaking Eternal Hunt's thake on it:

composed of:

- Skullreaper/Wrathmonger legs+torso
- Bloodletter hands and head
- Adding skulls to flavour

[KrautScientist]

@ Commissar K.: Cheers for the shout out, mate! Here's the painted version, just for the sake of completeness

 

 

@ Sagentus: Love the berzerker champ! That pesky DA symbol on his forehead needs a little more shaving off, though ;)

Edited January 13, 2018 by KrautScientist

[Commissar K.]

Another current neat thing that was found (not by me) is the option to currently have acces to Daemon Artefacts if there is a Warlord with the Daemon Faction Keyword (note, this Warlord obviously does not have to pick the Artefact for himself). So I'm eagerly awaiting if the Errata/FAQ will cover this.

 

A World Eater Daemon Prince of Khorne with Skullreaver would make for such a neat model in my opinion! While a Daemonic Herald wouldn't be my optimal Warlord pick it can be done and does keep things cheap whilst this Daemon Prince in particular can basically assist every mixed Khorne army.

What it leads to is 5 S10 attacks, AP4, D6 damage plus wound rolls of 6+ lead to additional +d3 Mortal wounds aside from buffing the whole party near him, World Eaters Khorne Daemons and all. This is quite an interesting prospect at just 180 points with wings, with the new option to deep strike and/or even fight double. Though the latter is a very heavy CP investment.

Cheers,

Edited January 15, 2018 by Commissar K.

[swordofmandulis]

Commissar K. this would be good, I wonder if we will see a restriction put in to stop some of the overlap with heretic astartes.

 

I for one will be taking this relic on my warlord, as my warlord is An'ggrath, and he has am Axe of Khorne so I see no reason why I cant. so at full profile he will have 11 chances to do D3 mortal wounds on a 6. which is incredibly nasty and will really help getting through invulns. he doesn't really need the re rolls vs titanic as he is able to wreck a knight in one round but it is nice, and the only warlord trait that fits him for my army is the 6+ ignore wounds and re roll failed hits and wounds if he ignores one, with so many wounds he is bound to trigger this which will make him even nastier for the next turn. plus he's now deepstriking and rerolling charges for his own locus. he's still too expensive, but damn he is so cool and if he gets in he is really really bad news

[Panzer]

Commissar K. this would be good, I wonder if we will see a restriction put in to stop some of the overlap with heretic astartes.

 

I for one will be taking this relic on my warlord, as my warlord is An'ggrath, and he has am Axe of Khorne so I see no reason why I cant. so at full profile he will have 11 chances to do D3 mortal wounds on a 6. which is incredibly nasty and will really help getting through invulns. he doesn't really need the re rolls vs titanic as he is able to wreck a knight in one round but it is nice, and the only warlord trait that fits him for my army is the 6+ ignore wounds and re roll failed hits and wounds if he ignores one, with so many wounds he is bound to trigger this which will make him even nastier for the next turn. plus he's now deepstriking and rerolling charges for his own locus. he's still too expensive, but damn he is so cool and if he gets in he is really really bad news

You can't give named characters artefacts. It's stated in the text on the Hellforged Artefacts section (and any other Codex relics section).

[swordofmandulis]

no of course you cant, forgot to put my brain in.

[Commissar K.]

No worries, we have a great slew of unnamed characters afterall. I just think that a lot of cool doors are opened to fans of Khorne.

 

Other fun stuff to deep strike as the LoS are offcourse the Brass Scorpion or Kythan.

 

Now another thing to consider is the use of the Locus for Maulerfiends or other FW daemon engines.

[Khornestar]

I really hate that I’ve become so “gamey” with my thoughts, but is there a reason to take a Chosen at all this edition?

 

Berzerkers are stronger, each model can upgrade their melee weapon (chainaxe) and each can fight twice.

 

If you want power swords, Bloodletters do the job better. If you want lightning claws, warp talons are cheaper. Both of these units can deliver themselves via deep strike, or warp talons can jump around without a rhino. I guess full power mauls or power axes are different, but regardless, both are less effective than fighting twice with chainaxe-wielding Berzerkers. Power Fists, I guess there’s a unique option... but I’m betting the math-hammer will still see the equivalent points worth of zerkers deal more damage against many targets. Still, S8 should put in serious work on the charge. This is probably how I’d build mine for melee even with the crazy cost.

 

Havocs shoot as well as Chosen, though Chosen can have 1 more special. Seems stupid to say that combi-bolters appear to be the most attractive gun to me in terms of using the unit for something unique. But then, if the point is to clear chaff, they would need to be in position to rapid fire ASAP. With a Dreadclaw, that would be possible. However, Terminators could do the same thing, with power weapons, for cheaper. In a Rhino, the Chosen are cheaper, but aren’t going to be rapid firing until turn 2. That could matter. Or take 5 bikers, which are cheaper than the Chosen, can move as fast (faster, really) than a Rhino can, and still shoot every turn if they wanted to.

 

Plasma pistols... nope. Might as well splurge for plasma guns, IMO, and then you might as well be using havocs at that point.

 

I’m just struggling to see what their role really is, and why they should ever be taken beside just wanting to/because they’re cool. I can see a very minor advantage in their ability to rapid-fire combi-bolters and then charge. For the points, I dunno... is that really it?

[Panzer]

Even outside of Khorne armies Chosen don't really have a purpose. They just can't do anything another unit can't do better/cheaper. I wish they would've gotten some unique special rule.

[Sagentus]

@ Commissar K.: Cheers for the shout out, mate! Here's the painted version, just for the sake of completeness

 

 

@ Sagentus: Love the berzerker champ! That pesky DA symbol on his forehead needs a little more shaving off, though

 

Always loved this herald and will one day make one similar :) ... Nice spot Kraut, I will amend this when i get home , ty! 

[Commissar K.]

I really hate that I’ve become so “gamey” with my thoughts, but is there a reason to take a Chosen at all this edition?

 

Berzerkers are stronger, each model can upgrade their melee weapon (chainaxe) and each can fight twice.

 

If you want power swords, Bloodletters do the job better. If you want lightning claws, warp talons are cheaper. Both of these units can deliver themselves via deep strike, or warp talons can jump around without a rhino. I guess full power mauls or power axes are different, but regardless, both are less effective than fighting twice with chainaxe-wielding Berzerkers. Power Fists, I guess there’s a unique option... but I’m betting the math-hammer will still see the equivalent points worth of zerkers deal more damage against many targets. Still, S8 should put in serious work on the charge. This is probably how I’d build mine for melee even with the crazy cost.

 

Havocs shoot as well as Chosen, though Chosen can have 1 more special. Seems stupid to say that combi-bolters appear to be the most attractive gun to me in terms of using the unit for something unique. But then, if the point is to clear chaff, they would need to be in position to rapid fire ASAP. With a Dreadclaw, that would be possible. However, Terminators could do the same thing, with power weapons, for cheaper. In a Rhino, the Chosen are cheaper, but aren’t going to be rapid firing until turn 2. That could matter. Or take 5 bikers, which are cheaper than the Chosen, can move as fast (faster, really) than a Rhino can, and still shoot every turn if they wanted to.

 

Plasma pistols... nope. Might as well splurge for plasma guns, IMO, and then you might as well be using havocs at that point.

 

I’m just struggling to see what their role really is, and why they should ever be taken beside just wanting to/because they’re cool. I can see a very minor advantage in their ability to rapid-fire combi-bolters and then charge. For the points, I dunno... is that really it?

Well... Don't hate on it. I feel that one of the things 8th 40k really underlines is that 40k is so massive in it's unit quantities that this has lead to massive overlap in unit functionalities. As Panzer also said, Chosen arn't alone and CSM arn't alone in this either. Pretty much the same is going on all over Imperium. I do think Xenos suffers less from this but this is very likely the case because they have smaller lines as Imperium and Chaos do. Plus there are less mix options within their respective factions as we have them.

 

Typically (and this is cool but also a boon) a World Eater player should gravitate towards the use of Berzerkers. Indeed Berzerkers fufill a ton of purposes especially with a Dreadclaw, Spartan or Rhino in mind. In reality I've found that ranged support isn't a massive requirement for this edition anymore. Especially since deepstriking Bloodletters/Bloodthirsters/Daemon Princes now also has become a legit option for Khorne fans.

 

At the same time I also see this as a logical evolution from a narrative perspective however. What I mean by this is that Berzerkers are Chosen, chosen of Khorne. Likewise Plague Marines are for Nurgle etc. 

I come from a background of WFB first before I went into 40K and more recently AoS but in reality I've never fully understood the Chosen concept to begin with. I understand they are Veterans but in reality so are Berzerkers and because of that I feel the only real reason for Chosen to remain are for followers of Chaos Undivided that don't feel like focussing on a particular god. If I had any hand in their design I would likely have cranked them up to 2 wounds. By large because this way they stat-wise would represent "almost HQ models". The reason I think GW skipped on this is because I do believe there is some kind of Chaos Primaris plan in their books, just not something we'll see any time soon.

 

We've come to a point where choice is so wide that indeed it boils down to points and simple personal preforance. This is a good thing but indeed removes a "special light" on certain specialist units or even Legions. Especially since we can mix so much and gain so many benifits out of it in this edition more and more units drift towards the sideline because they lack 'super stratagems' to push them even further. E.g.

- Bloodletters without deep strike stratagem wouldn't be a common choice for Khorne armies, we'd be back on Index levels and giving up a lot to summon them (maby)

- World Eaters Berzerkers without the Index rule that make them Troop choices when your Detachment is full of Berzerkers would basically remove any insentive to play World Eaters at all. Alpha Legion Berzerkers reach combat quicker and are cheaper as putting them in Rhino's.

- Daemonic Engines (of all kinds) without their Stratagems would largely be useless to begin with.

 

Note that I'm a fan of this mixed soup-version of 8th edition. At the same time though it also leads to certain choices being completely irrelevant aswell because there often is a slighty better version of X and Y. In that same vein I'd say World Eater players also have no use for Possessed because of how great Berzerkers/Bloodletters are. Yes they have an additional wound but thats pretty much all there is to it. But if you wanted to deep strike Possessed you can still do it ;) 

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Commissar K.

[Trevak Dal]

Even outside of Khorne armies Chosen don't really have a purpose. They just can't do anything another unit can't do better/cheaper. I wish they would've gotten some unique special rule.

If you could give your csm ubergrit/Bolter, bolt pistol and chainsword, they would be even more outclassed. That's really the only thing I can think of, is "stupidly over priced non scoring chaos tactical squad" if they got discounted weapons and wargear it would be one thing, but you can't.

 

I kinda think chosen should go back to the drawing board, come come back with combibolters and chainswords standard (that would be 3 attacks) with options to equip ALL GUYS with guns and melee weapons at a discounted rate.

[Commissar K.]

I dont think they will go back on the board because of eventual Primaris Hereticus.

[KrautScientist]

Hey guys, I realise I am very much getting in the way of your rules discussion here, but I am currently crazy pleased with my latest World Eaters Contemptor, so I hope you'll forgive me for plugging him over here as well ;)

 

 

 

And here he is alongside his "older brother" completed last year:

 

 

More pictures can be found here, in case anyone's interested.

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

Woah is that an arm-mounted ursus claw?

[Commissar K.]

Fantastic work as always and certainly keep plugging your awesome WE conversions in awesome WE discussion topics :D

[KrautScientist]

Haha, cheers, guys! :)

 

@ OPTIMVSCHRISTVS: Ayup, that's an Ursus Claw alright -- glad to hear it seems to be recognisable as one ;)

 

@ Commissar K.: Will do! ;)