++ Gods of the Arena - A World Eaters Community ++

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

That's awesome dude! Always been a huge fan of your work, glad to see you posting in here.

[BrassClaw]

A new project for my world eaters. I have always loved the red butchers models from forge world, but because they don't have rules in 40k, yet. So I came up with this idea for the unit. I present "The Brass Claws"

 

 

 

So the original idea to do this came to me when I found someone on ebay parting out Red Butcher kits. So I had the idea of using spare warp talons lightning claws with the Red Butcher bodies. The problem with that was the shoulders looked too small on the Red Butcher bodies. Rather than buying the Red Butcher arms as well and modifying them, I went and found the  betrayal a Calth cataphractii lightning claws and some World Eaters cataphractii shoulders pads. So this is the result, not the most competitive unit but I think they look great, and were much cheaper than buying any terminator kit.   

[Khornestar]

Love ‘em, man. They look great! I was kicking around ideas for what to do with mine, and wondered how cataphractii arms looked on them.

[swordofmandulis]

Thought I'd do a quick run down of how my World Eaters did at this weekends Warhammer World narrative weekend for you guys. The format was 100 power level matched play, so maximum 3 detachments etc. In brief my list was as follows

 

Khârn

Daemon Prince with wings

 

2x10 Berserkers

1x9 Berserkers

 

3 Rhinos

 

Forgefiend

 

An'ggrath the Unbound.

 

Exactly 100 power.

 

My first game was against Dark Angels with a Knight Crusader. I did my best to inform my opponents of what An'ggrath can do before deployment in the interest of sportsmanship, however my opponent left his knight exposed on the end of the line and with the 2CP deepstrike strat I dropped him in 9 inches away. We also had an additional ability as part of the mission in which I could infiltrate an infantry unit, so I did that with a berserker squad. I advanced my rhinos up, Daemon prince went with them. My infiltrators made their charge on a 10 squad of intercessors and murdered them to a man, An'ggrath charged the knight and a 10 man tac squad and got in, doing over 30 damage to the knight and I'm well and truly on the front foot. By the end of turn 2 I had lost most of the original squad of Berserkers, but another squad had come out of a rhino and took down his Redemptor, Daemon prince killed a 5 man tac squad and only 2 were left in the 10 man tac squad. Following that my dreadnought killing Berserkers went after the 2 remaining hellblasters in the ruins and tore them up An'ggrath and the daemon prince flew towards his captain and lieutenant and I began moving Khârn's rhino over to intercept the Dev squad and 5 tacs he is pushing up the edge of the board. His captain and lieutenant murdered my 4 remaining Berserkers in the ruins, but my 2 daemons were looming large. By the end all he had left was his captain, who succeeded in killing the Daemon prince, and An'ggrath was just too big to get to him to kill him so went off to take out the last 2 tacticals sitting on an objective.

 

I took this one with 3 of the 4 objectives, first blood and line breaker. And I realised that my list was actually rather nasty, one dimensional and if I came across a hard counter I could be in trouble, but very very brutal when it works.

 

Game 2 to follow ...

[Sagentus]

Great to hear your list did so well. I see what you mean about it being a bit of a 1 dimensianal list. I think that is the case with Khorne atm, just got to pray you get the charges. Did you find An'grath worth his points? just for 888pnts you could get a Khorne Daemon betallion with DP(with wings), Skulltaker and 3 x 20 man bloodletter squads. I did notice on Battleclinic is that if you set your CSM to legion khorne you can take Bloodletters as troops for CSM, not sure if its a glitch or not.

[Commissar K.]

Great to hear your list did so well. I see what you mean about it being a bit of a 1 dimensianal list. I think that is the case with Khorne atm, just got to pray you get the charges. Did you find An'grath worth his points? just for 888pnts you could get a Khorne Daemon betallion with DP(with wings), Skulltaker and 3 x 20 man bloodletter squads. I did notice on Battleclinic is that if you set your CSM to legion khorne you can take Bloodletters as troops for CSM, not sure if its a glitch or not.

Game was played in Power points!

 

But yeah otherwise I agree, a list like the above is maby a one trick poney but a very potent one at that. For Matched play point usage I would certainly divert into using Bloodletters, Heralds, Karanak and/or Khorne Daemon Daemon Princes ;) 

 

You can allready thake Bloodletters as Troops for CSM, or Plaguebearers/Horrors etc. while at it. However if you do this the Detachment cannot benifit from the Legion Traits as it can only provide that bonus if the whole Detachment for example has Legion Keyword World Eaters and those Daemon Troops do not have a Legion Keyword.

 

At the same time I'm mixing like it was Khorne Daemonkin too. The added value of deep striking Bloodletters and/or Daemon Princes is massive for any World Eater army and especially if you don't feel like investing into too much Forgeworld stuff.

 

Cheers,

[swordofmandulis]

Sagentus, Commissar K.

 

so i wont go into reps for all 5 games, but i ended up 4 wins 1 loss, all of the wins would have resulted in my opponent being tabled had they not called it. 

 

The game i lost, the opponent had a truly epic amount of monster killing fire power, and i failed the charge with An'ggrath, which led to me getting all but tabled when i called it, i had made the charge it would have resulted in a dead leviathan and a tied up land raider achilles, which would have then been destroyed turn 2 i'm confident, and i would have most likely tabled him. 

 

to be fair in the 4 wins i only made the T1 charge from deepstrike twice, once into the knight and once into a fire raptor. on the other 2 he had to face 5 hammernators and 5 normal terms in combat, and the second fail he took an entire armies worth of shooting including 2 wraith cannons and number of dark lances for the loss of only 9 wounds. he then proceeded to wreck face. 

 

when it comes to being worth his points, i'm inclined to say he is. 

Game 1 he killed the knight crusader which is almost 600pts, he killed a 10 man tac squad that had some plasma in it c.230ish i think, and he whipped a lieutenant 70ish i think so that 900pts. 

 

game 2 was the 10 terminators, must be almost 450ish right, he destroyed a land raider 350ish and another lieutenant felt the blood lash so 870ish again. 

 

game 3 was the fire raptor, a leviathan and tyberos which i have totaling nearly 900

 

game 4 was the loss, and it was literally on a 4+ command point reroll he would have been in and as i said above, dead leviathan, dead achilles turn 2 and probably a dead quad las pred after that, not to mention his captain and lieutenant although i think Khârn and the Zerks would have been after those heads.

 

finally game 5 he took the wraithknight, 20 hellions and an Autarch. So maybe not quite his points in that one, but the game ended after the end of his turn 2 because he only had a razorwing left. 

 

so even though i was super salty about him going up by what he did in CA, in 4 of my games has killed his points, and it doesnt stop at that. 

 

many many players will throw their game plan out of the window when that thing drops. in the one i lost, the list was just full of armour so i really had no chance once he was gone, but against a softer list i would have backed the berzerkers to have put some major work in considering it took his entire army to bring An'ggrath down, and it was 12 wounds remaining, 4 lascannons, 4 hits 4 wounds, 3 failed 3++ and exactly 12 damage rolled, i then rolled my 12 x 6+ to ignore the wounds from the warlord trait i took, and failed all 12!!

 

so in conclusion, An'ggrath is a beast and i am testing him in a points game friday, 2k.

 

Khârn is a total wrecking machine and will likely never be out of my list. 

 

berzerkers are borderline unfair in combat and i felt bad at times rolling so many attacks. 

 

totally loved the list. 

[Commissar K.]

Great to hear, well if you can fit it all in for 2K that would be wonderful. With the Primarch's being removed from this concept I think there is much more to be said for An'ggrath! Having said that, as discussed in the 'new Khorne Daemon Kin' topic(s) I think my new aim will lead me to a force with Khorne Daemon prince with Skullreaver (likely even without wings) and a ton of Bloodletters. Two wing-less Daemon princes with Artefacts and 60 Bloodletters still clock in cheaper as An'ggrath does by himself and it really allows for a ton of World Eater units to be added also.

Having said that, I really dig your list! I really think that one massive factor for this list is opponents being presented with one huge problem as opposed to many smaller ones (which will be my aim). Plus a 4-1 streak is a great result by my standards. As you said, many players will also have to throw their orginal plan out of the window when An'ggrath hits the board. There is practically nothing he can't kill and offcourse you can even opt to fight with him twice. Albeit at the cost of 3 CP.

Lastly I agree with you that Khârn is a beast, having said that I really feel the same about deep striking Khorne Daemon Princes with Skullreaver/Slayer sword too :) 

 

[Commissar K.]

Oh and on the other side, does An'ggrath have the Daemon Faction Keyword now? He didnt have it in IA but might have missed a FAQ.

[Khornestar]

Oh and on the other side, does An'ggrath have the Daemon Faction Keyword now? He didnt have it in IA but might have missed a FAQ.

He does. I freaked out last night but found it; it’s in the FAQ/Errata for the FW chaos index.

[swordofmandulis]

Yeah I freaked out too just before the weekend when i needed him to be able to have the Daemon stuff.

 

Fyi Oblivious to pain warlord trait is epic on him, having 24 wounds to roll those 6's for he inevitably saves some and then you are rerolling all hits and wounds until the end of your next turn, bearing in mind he's doing 11 attacks on the charge fresh and wounding almost everything on 2's, it was utterly disgusting, I dealt 45 damage to the Wraithknight in combat! The 2CP to improve his invuln was also huge when I failed the charge from DS.

 

All I've had to lose from my list is the forgefiend, which was next to useless anyway, and the havoc launchers and additional combi weapons I put on my rhinos, testing Friday so will report how it goes.

 

I found Khârn to be more reliable than the DP with malefic Talons, AP-4 is awful for marines etc, or anything without an invuln.

 

Tell you what my other stand out was, berserker champion with lightning claws, 10 attacks S5 ap-2 rerolling wounds was often enough to clear out smaller squads. So nasty

Edited January 23, 2018 by swordofmandulis

[Commissar K.]

Happy to hear that that got FAQ, nice to know that he can choose for Warlord Traits still! In general I agree with you that the Forgefiends, Maulerfiends and all that become really secondary choices now we have acces to cheaper Troops that can do the deep striking. As mentioned before I also have canceled my Dreadclaw plans, this is much easier and cheaper to do :D It can even be argued that against certain targets it's more powerful also. 3d6" charges are great and can start outside of quite some Overwatch too.

I like Khârn a lot too, but I do think that the 'new' Daemon Princes with A'garath or Skullreaver are amazing contenders, especially all costs considered. 
Like you I also always love my Berzerker champs, not with claws but with the Power Fist. Smash! 

As discussed with the KDK topic, the new plan roughly boils down to one or two Daemon Princes or one and Karanak, 3x20 Bloodletters, Khârn and a goon, 3x8 Berzerkers and 3 Rhino's. This practically always leaves us with 300-350 points to play with. I'm undecided how I'll fill those up but more Bloodletters and some fire support seem like a really solid plan :D 

Cheers,

[swordofmandulis]

I totally get what you are saying about the lots of bloodletters etc, and I'm almost certain that would be more powerful, but there's just something about having a giant beastie in the army, I'm not trying to be Uber competitive, I just built the list I thought would be fun and I could get finished in short order ready for the campaign weekend just gone. I will definitely look to add some bloodletters and perhaps a herald and deepstrike all 3 of them, and then have the Berserkers following up in the rhinos, I just can't being myself to paint 20-30 more infantry models. The only thing I was disappointed about was losing a game on a 50/50

[Sagentus]

What you need to do is enter a 2500pnt tourney .... get the DP , Karanak set up Commissar said and you'll have 850 pnts left ... with a little shuffling you should be able to fit An'ggrath too haha

[Commissar K.]

I totally get what you are saying about the lots of bloodletters etc, and I'm almost certain that would be more powerful, but there's just something about having a giant beastie in the army, I'm not trying to be Uber competitive, I just built the list I thought would be fun and I could get finished in short order ready for the campaign weekend just gone. I will definitely look to add some bloodletters and perhaps a herald and deepstrike all 3 of them, and then have the Berserkers following up in the rhinos, I just can't being myself to paint 20-30 more infantry models. The only thing I was disappointed about was losing a game on a 50/50 , although I wasn't expecting to do nearly as well as I did, once you taste the success you want more right.

Totally get that! If I had the FW Bloodthirster I'd do the same to be honest. Giant models that are effective are just very awesome in a top comp game that very much seem to revolve around massive infantry numbers ;) 

 

Plus there is a really big advantage to your strategy also. It thakes up less space, less CP and has a concentrated power factor. Which means that the more an opponnent spreads out for Objective reasons the harder you become to stop.

 

For me the only reason to go that Bloodletter heavy is Age of Sigmar, where I do the same. Though unit sizes are a bit different without doubt the use of Bloodletters in AoS archieves the same potent result.

 

Thake the skulls of your enemy, obliterate them in worthy melee combat!

 

What you need to do is enter a 2500pnt tourney .... get the DP , Karanak set up Commissar said and you'll have 850 pnts left ... with a little shuffling you should be able to fit An'ggrath too haha

Should certainly be possible! As above I think there is a massive advantage to the concentrated power.

 

Even the inclusion of a BT is  very possible the moment you present enough Bloodletters and Berzerkers. It's still very expensive but if that draws away the focus on what really is causing the hurt and really will win you the game then that's fine too!

 

There is certainly more space to manouvre in but using our two strongest Troop assets usually will get the job done. At least that's my perspective on it. Don't know how that was in 7th but do know the very same tactic panned out well in 3rd ed CSM aswell. Daemon Prince and Khârn are buds, so are Bloodletters and Berzerkers. Shooting optional, not required, for Khorne ;) 

[Khornestar]

RE: the discussion of Chosen earlier, I think I've settled on how I'm going to run mine:

 

5x Chosen, each armed with a Power Fist. Run them within range of a Dark Apostle's buffs.

 

With World Eaters trait: 16 S8 attacks on the charge hitting on 3+ then re-rolling with 4+ to hit; against Imperium triggering extra attacks on 6's with the first swings since modifiers happen after re-rolls. If I'm wrong about this please let me know, but seems like it should totally work.

 

Not that it's "competitive" or ideal, but compared to all the other roles I'd rather use other units for, this is the one I've settled on. Might even make it a unit of 6 and add a melta or plasma for taking a pop at a vehicle/monster.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Juggernut

[Commissar K.]

Sounds cool to me, would love to know the costs attached to such a unit, though I'm sure I can figure that out myselves hehe.

What I still really like from the Chaos Daemon Codex is that we can also have An'ggrath, Skarbrand or other big Bloodthirsters fight twice too and thus are capable of replicating that attack quantity with that Strenght through Stratagems also... Though if you want to have a great excuse to convert a squad with Power Fists I can't think of a better one ;) 

[Khornestar]

Yeah, it's more the desire to build them than their effectiveness. If you place a 1 before a 4 before a 0, you'll have your answer. ;)

[Sagentus]

@commissar - I was looking at it last night and witht the 350pnt left from your list i could fit a defiler and 2nd DP with 2nd artefact (a'rgath). I went for a defiler because people will see it and itll soak up attention for a turn or more if I'm lucky. Then the second DP can DS if you have the CP or it can drop behind the rhinos as they carge. 

 

I see with your list you said you had 9 CP, how did you get 9 CP from the battalion detachments? I think im missing something 

[Commissar K.]

@commissar - I was looking at it last night and witht the 350pnt left from your list i could fit a defiler and 2nd DP with 2nd artefact (a'rgath). I went for a defiler because people will see it and itll soak up attention for a turn or more if I'm lucky. Then the second DP can DS if you have the CP or it can drop behind the rhinos as they carge.

 

I see with your list you said you had 9 CP, how did you get 9 CP from the battalion detachments? I think im missing something

Battle-forged army (Chaos/Khorne) and two Battalion Detachments make up that CP count. Most of it is spend on upgrading to Banner of Blood and deep striking though. Edited January 25, 2018 by Commissar K.

[Trevak Dal]

I'm thinking chosen with combiflamers as Firebreaks against horde armies. Dump a lot of s4 hits, and then assault.

[Sagentus]

@commissar - cant see the battleforged selection on battle clinic, but if that would give 9 CP that would meam we could DS both DP and all the bloodletters.

 

@trevak - would it not be cheaper to use havocs? Same stats (unless im missimg something). Jugger had a good point of using pf chosen, could always go a bit cheaper with PAs. But they dont really do a job other units cant do imo

[Commissar K.]

@commissar - cant see the battleforged selection on battle clinic, but if that would give 9 CP that would meam we could DS both DP and all the bloodletters.

I don't know what Battle Clinic is but yeah the aim of that list is to obtain a lot of CP to deep strike the vast mayority of the Daemonic bunch, especially the DP and Bloodletters.

 

Pages 240-245 cover it all in the Rulesbook.

- All Battle-forged armies start with 3CP (Command Points, page 242)

- We are then able to thake up to 3 Detachments, in the KDK example two of these are Battalion Detachments which leads to the 3+3+3 CP, 9 CP. 

- Due to this CP count we basically are indeed able to deploy the World Eater side of the list (albeit in Rhino's) and deep strike (plus Blood Banner) the Khorne Daemon side. 

 

This mixed combination of Khorne choices at least in my opinion leads to a very potent allround list. As before though, as this is the World Eaters topic I really will only go further in the plans with the Khorne Daemonkin topic, which feels like a better name holder for the time for such mixed list discussions. 

 

Truth really for me is because Detachments generate CP and cheap units fill Detachment easier the selection of cheap stuff basically decides the current competitive viability of an army. Which is a bit cruel to say but pretty much describes 8th's 'engine to competitive builds'.

 

Like a few weeks ago when I cancelled my Dreadclaw plans, for competitive reasons I believe that deepstriking Bloodletters is almost often a better choice. The costs involved for 20 Bloodletters are close to a Dreadclaw, the costs involved for 8 Berzerkers with nice tools are close to 20 Bloodletters and due to the deep strike stratagem combined with Blood Banner we can actually do a deep strike assault better with Bloodletters as we can with any other choice. 

 

*Keep it cheap edition, unless you can stick a huge ammount of plasma/melta/flamers on it ;) 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Commissar K.

[Sagentus]

I meant battle scribe. Battle clinic is an old eve online tool lol. I agree with keeping it cheap. If we go for the double dp, could swap the defiler out for skulltaker and a herald. Then have skulltaker, herald and karanak in a supreme command detachment. Extra 1 CP for little adition. Let me know what you think in the daemonkin topic ;)

[Trevak Dal]

@trevak - would it not be cheaper to use havocs? Same stats (unless im missimg something). Jugger had a good point of using pf chosen, could always go a bit cheaper with PAs. But they dont really do a job other units cant do imo

True, but they got 2 attacks base (champ has 3). And you can't give havocs combiflamers, only flamers, I'd take a full 10 man squad, in a rhino hop them out and start rolling dice, having zerkers in rhinos support. (You should be able to equip ALL chosen with whatever you want, like apparently you could before we got that shared with the most Chaos Lite Imperial army, the Space Wolves and their wolf guard)

 

Maybe deepstrike some terminators (really wish you could give them two power axes like red butchers, for +1 attack and all) behind the mass, or maybe mutilators, something to make the opponent choose.

 

I'd do blood letters, but I'd have to buy into blood letters/daemons codex and I'm not sure I'm down for that. That would certainly be the economical (points wise) if I could drop two sizable blood letter units in cover behind in the opponent's backfield if they have pushed to midtable (which means my zerkers are going to chop that meat sooner).

 

The Firebreaks would-ideally, abuse the "shoot at one unit, assault another" ability, with the zerkers trying to get everyone into a reenactment of the Church scene from Kingsmen.

 

My heavy slots are full of maulers, and preds or oblits.

 

Seriously though, I got power weapons for days in my bits box. If I could have a 10 man chosen unit with all combiflamers and powerswords, it would be baller as :cuss. Don't come at me with the "but terminators", I don't like the look of terminators-i make use of them for their ability to be where they are needed but I don't like the hunched fatty look.

 

It would be like "woah, who are those guys with hooded capes?"

 

I'd point to them, "oh these guys? These are The Brass Apostles Chosen. They are the 'burn' in 'Maim kill burn'"

Edited January 26, 2018 by Trevak Dal