++ Excessive Perfection - An Emperor's Children Community ++

[Sete]

 

 

How improbable would it be to have an non dribbly EC warband?

 

Kinda like Sigvald the Magnificent?

So basically 30k EC? Well...you could either explain it with the typical time travel warp shenanigans....or just say that your warband has an excessive amount of focus on being fabulous which gets further improved by Slaanesh. :D

Yeah basically 30k EC.

But as a fluffy dude, is this supported by the fluff?

Or do they all turn into degenerates at some point?

[Panzer]

Mutated, not degenerated. :P

 

And for the official part...I don't know of any Slaanesh warband that retained their "beauty" but since basically anything is possible in the warp it's not that far fetched. You can just explain it by Slaanesh boosting that one aspect of that warband and nobody would argue.

[Extropian]

If a particular Slaaneshi warlord considered that to be an important part of the "perfect dedication to Slaanesh", he could easily either attract similar followers or just make sure his own followers are altered to fit his personal aesthetic. That fits pretty well with the ego and personality of the EC imo.

[Sete]

Mutated, not degenerated. :P

 

And for the official part...I don't know of any Slaanesh warband that retained their "beauty" but since basically anything is possible in the warp it's not that far fetched. You can just explain it by Slaanesh boosting that one aspect of that warband and nobody would argue.

You know Black Templar talk ;)

 

Thanks for the replies guys, think I'm going to pick up some purple today and start painting MK4.

[Sersi]

I will never again say GW doesn't love Slaanesh again. 

 

 

Noise Marines:

 

- Noise Marines are 15 pts.

- Sonic Blaster stayed at 4 pts.

- Blastmasters are 20 pts, its now just better than a missile launcher in every way, you can now get a 5X MSU squad with a Blastmaster for 95 pts!

- Doom Sirens are now:  Assault D6 instead of D3.

 

Sonic Dreadnought: 

 

- Due to Blastmaster dropping 8 pts each, it's cost went down 16 pts, getting you most of the cost back to take an improved Doom Siren. 

- Fire Frenzy: for 1 CP its can fire twice if it doesn't move for 4D3 shot at S8/AP-2/DMG D3, for potentially 36 damage in a single shooting phase.

 

Daemonettes:

 

- Daemonettes are 7 pts a 22% point drop; saving 20-60 pts depending on the units size.

 

 

Emperor's Children Legion Trait - Flawless Perfection:

 

-  Legion Traits are abilities available Chaos to Infantry, Bikers and Helbrutes of the same Legion.

-  Units with this trait always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge.

-  If the enemy charge or has a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with.

-  Starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

 

Emperor's Children Warlord Trait - Stimulated By Pain:

 

- Add +1 to your Warlords attacks characteristic for each wound he has suffered.

- To a maximum of +3 attacks.

- If the Warlord heals any wounds, he loses the associated bonus attacks.

 

Slaanesh Stratagem - Endless Cacophony: 

 

- For 2 CP a marked Infantry or Biker units can fire twice.

- Effects: Havocs, Obliterators, Chosen, Terminators, Raptors and Bikes.

- Obliterators are Assault 4, minimum unit size of 3, firing twice for 24 shots!

- Bike are now only 25 pts!

 

Emperor's Children Stratagem - Excess of Violence: 

 

- For 1 CP a marked Infantry units gains +1 attack for each model slain in the fight phase.

 

Slaanesh Psychic Power - Delightful Agonies:

 

- : for a 5+ FNP.

 

Emperor'd Children Artifact - Intoxicating Elixir:

 

-  SLAANESH model only.

-  Add +1 to the bearer’s Strength and Attack characteristics.

 

Emperor'd Children Artifact - Blissgiver:

 

-  EMPEROR’S CHILDREN model only.

-  Blissgiver: 6”/Assault D6/S: User/AP-1/Dam 1; replaces the models bolt pistol.

-  If an enemy Character model is wounded by Blissgiver but not slain.

-  Roll D6 at the end of the phase, on a 6 the suffer D3 mortal wounds.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

As fas as i know Noise marine aren't troops anymore for EC. 

[DraneceusRex]

@DreamIsCollapsing: Below is the caveat I posted in the main Codex thread that should still allow us to field Noise Marines as troops. While I am nervous about the same, the index still has a separate entry for NM and Berserkers for WE and EC with both listed as troops.

found it here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?

While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.

 

Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).

 

They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

 

Just use the Index entry with the updates with the codex. I would be shocked if this is not an oversight since the other cult units are still troops for 1kSons and DG. Expect a quick FAQ for clarification.

[Panzer]

You forgot to mention Noise Marines for the Endless Cacophony Stratagem. That's a lot of dakka.

[Castigator]

There is absolutely no chance of using the Codex and the Index for the same army at any event, despite what the GW community page says. 

The Community page isn't a ruling, you'd need an FAQ for that.

Unless we get an FAQ, we're stuck with what we have........Which for me means losing my Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer & 5 units of Noise Marines....sigh.....they can go join my 10 Seeker Chariots that I can't use anymore 

[DreamIsCollapsing]

@DreamIsCollapsing: Below is the caveat I posted in the main Codex thread that should still allow us to field Noise Marines as troops. While I am nervous about the same, the index still has a separate entry for NM and Berserkers for WE and EC with both listed as troops.

 

 

With all due respect, it's clearly wrong to use this sentence for justification of Noise Marin as Troops choice.

 

It would implie

1) You will use index cost for Noise marine (16 points per fig, 28 for blastmaser)

2) You will use D3 attack for Doom Siren, not D6

3) You can use, for exemple, the Index profil for Horror, rather than the Codex profile. And then by-pass the intended increase cost point. 

 

IF we got confirmation EC can't have NM as troop (in the codex and/or incoming FAQ) then : 

- Either you take 240 points of cultist to get your 6 troops for a Brigad Detachment

- Or Daemonette gain "Legion" keyworld, or work similar to Fabius Bile/Fallen. Only logical reason imho for putting demon troop in a CSM codex (but i doubt their is a reason at all)

- Or you make a Brigad detachment with Daemonette and EC units that don't need/can't use EC Legion rules : Daemon Prince, Chaos spawn, Daemon engine etc....

- Or you go with Vanguard detachment, and loose CP compared to Brigad detachment despite having a fluffy army, wich is sad. 

[Sersi]

Well Noise Marines are not troops in the new Codex and Daemonettes lack both the Legion and Chaos Daemon faction Keyword. They'e basically there for summoning.

 

There is a third option however.  Since CP are shared over the entire army. You would take a Slaaneshi <Renegade> Battalion and kit the those CSM troops, that get nothing the EC legion trait out with chain swords and take advantage of Advance & Charge.  Melee Chosen and Terminators could also be better taken in a renegade force as well since they can still use Endless Cacophony. Then take a <Emperor's Children> Vanguard for your shooting units or models you want to take EC specific gear on. 

[Sersi]

Actually, I just thought of a better option. Since CP are shared over the entire army.  Take two minimum Battalions of Slaanesh Chaos Daemons. For instance 3 units of 10 Daemonettes and a Herald in a seeker chariot for 356 pts each; for 6 CP and 60 Obsec troops.  Only 712 pts which leaves plenty of points for a Emperor's Children Vanguard detachment for you Noise Marines, Terminators, and Sonic Dreadnoughts.

[Commissar K.]

There is absolutely no chance of using the Codex and the Index for the same army at any event, despite what the GW community page says. 

The Community page isn't a ruling, you'd need an FAQ for that.

Unless we get an FAQ, we're stuck with what we have........Which for me means losing my Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer & 5 units of Noise Marines....sigh.....they can go join my 10 Seeker Chariots that I can't use anymore 

Not to go too much offtopic but I have to chime in here.

 

There is an absolutely high chance of using the Codex and Index, any event not allowing this should specifically say so in their House-rules.

The Community page is full of rulings, the article is actually a AQ, as the direct article mentions and suggests this also.

Link to the article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Link of examples where the Warhammer Community directly acts as a rules update:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/23/updated-faqs-and-boots-on-the-groundgw-homepage-post-2/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/23/vandus-and-khul-matched-play-points-june22gw-homepage-post-2/?fref=gc

 

The Community page acts as a tool for Warhammer's community to be informed about all rules and intends for rulings. Having read the Codex CSM over a dozen times now I can confirm to you that there is nothing akin to Army Rules within this Codex which in turn means that no Army Rules are invalidated for Emperor's Children either.

 

In addition, if it ends up that Army Rules from the Index are removed I'd suggest giving Emperor's Children Berzerkers a go. Fighting first twice is a hell of a trick, if your wondering what Wargear to use for the Champion I can strongly consider a Power Fist. Emperor's Children with the Khorne Keyword is something Codex in itself does not forbid... All it says is to have Slaanesh for EC if they have the option to thake that Keyword, something the Berzerkers do not have.

 

[Commissar K.]

That moment when Daemon Princes of Slaanesh with Talons and Intoxicating Elixer show up.

http://i.imgur.com/RCbvluq.png

[Panzer]

Definitely my favorite combination so far. S8 Prince with tons of attacks. Give it Stimulated by Pain Warlord Trait for even more laughs. :D

[Sersi]

Definetely.  Then casting Diabolic strength on himself for S10 and 9-12 attacks. Excessive, indeed.

[Commissar K.]

Definetely.  Then casting Diabolic strength on himself for S10 and 9-12 attacks. Excessive, indeed.

Exactly Well worth the effort in my opinion and cheap for that effect to boot. Now it's certainly not EC exclusive offcourse and Renegade Slaanesh should be doing really well also but what I do like about the EC a lot is the Flawless Perfection, as in my opinion it supplements the extreme potent ranged attacks of EC very well by making them relevant in melee also. Having a lot of Assault weapons is nice and very functional but I feel that the manouvrability is more key as rushing in there.

 

Which brings me on the topic of the "new" Obliterators, as I'd love to hear the EC perspective on them, do you guys think Assault 4 is what makes the relevant difference for them?

A squad of 3 still comes in at 195 points but the pin-point precision should count for something. In addition great placement plus Endless Cacophony seems to me like a guaranteed kill of many Vechicles, maby even two... I guess in general Im looking forward to see the Obliterators shine again, despite not having the beautiful Power Fists they once had. Here also Flawless Perfection does not seem like a bad boost as it still gives them something to do in melee first.

 

Lastly I'm also looking forward to how EC players now value their Helbrutes. I think that most Legion Traits arn't too interesting for it but from my perspective Flawless Perfection certainly is as fighting first 'or at the same time' with a Helbrute really makes a world of difference. Most of the Legion Traits are so "infantry unit" focused that it's easy to miss that the Helbrute actually does get the rules, it's just not too often that there is really a big difference. E.g. BL Helbrutes arn't too special, Renegade and World Eater Traits are a bit lost because I don't feel a Helbrute exactly wants to be into melee asap or always, substracting likelyness to hit is nice, so is being able to make it into a siege engine but really it's the Emperor's Children Helbrutes I think will give most opponents a shocking suprise when they charge the Helbrute only to find out that it doesn't have to chew all of the hits to do something and in the likely event of it not being outright destroyed in melee it will even attack first. All very interesting!

 

Edit: And before I forget to mention it, because I didn't know about it a few days ago, all the Forge World Dreadnought Chaos entries are also Helbrutes now, so that should count for some relevant Flawless Perfection right? 

 

 

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Edit: And before I forget to mention it, because I didn't know about it a few days ago, all the Forge World Dreadnought Chaos entries are also Helbrutes now, so that should count for some relevant Flawless Perfection right?

 

 

Yes, but no Frenzy Fire on them. 

 

Then casting Diabolic strength on himself for S10 and 9-12 attacks. Excessive, indeed

 

 

Your Daemon Prince is better with a FnP5+ or cancelling invulnerable save. If you really want fun take a Slaanesh Herald with him +1 Strenght (kinda useless to go Strenght 10) but especially Hysterical Frenzy to double your Attack per turn.

 

Take two minimum Battalions of Slaanesh Chaos Daemons. For instance 3 units of 10 Daemonettes and a Herald in a seeker chariot for 356 pts each; for 6 CP and 60 Obsec troops.

 

Or you could just take a Brigade Emperor's Children Detachment with 9x10 Cultist for 240 points and get a 12CP Army. Only downfall with this is i'm strugling to fill the other slot. Chaos Army got LOTS of great Elit sloot (Hellbrute, Noise Marine, Terminator, Possessed, Chosen) and HQ (Sorcerer, Daemon Prince). 

But Fast attack ? Support ? 

 

Those damn juicy Forgeworld Tank (yes i'm talking about you Hellforged Sicarian/Predator) are also Elit, not support..

[Sersi]

 

 

Take two minimum Battalions of Slaanesh Chaos Daemons. For instance 3 units of 10 Daemonettes and a Herald in a seeker chariot for 356 pts each; for 6 CP and 60 Obsec troops.

 

Or you could just take a Brigade Emperor's Children Detachment with 9x10 Cultist for 240 points and get a 12CP Army. Only downfall with this is i'm strugling to fill the other slot. Chaos Army got LOTS of great Elit sloot (Hellbrute, Noise Marine, Terminator, Possessed, Chosen) and HQ (Sorcerer, Daemon Prince). 

But Fast attack ? Support ? 

 

Those damn juicy Forgeworld Tank (yes i'm talking about you Hellforged Sicarian/Predator) are also Elit, not support..

 

 

Those 90X Cultists would cost 360 pts rather than 240 pts, but I see you point.  I have the band <EC Warband>, the groupies <Daemonettes>, perhaps it is time to get some roadies <Cultists>.  Still I have like 200 Daemonettes so I'd be more likely to take a Slaaneshi Daemon Brigade and EC Vanguard.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

 

 

 

Take two minimum Battalions of Slaanesh Chaos Daemons. For instance 3 units of 10 Daemonettes and a Herald in a seeker chariot for 356 pts each; for 6 CP and 60 Obsec troops.

 

Or you could just take a Brigade Emperor's Children Detachment with 9x10 Cultist for 240 points and get a 12CP Army. Only downfall with this is i'm strugling to fill the other slot. Chaos Army got LOTS of great Elit sloot (Hellbrute, Noise Marine, Terminator, Possessed, Chosen) and HQ (Sorcerer, Daemon Prince). 

But Fast attack ? Support ? 

 

Those damn juicy Forgeworld Tank (yes i'm talking about you Hellforged Sicarian/Predator) are also Elit, not support..

 

 

Those 90X Cultists would cost 360 pts rather than 240 pts, but I see you point.  I have the band <EC Warband>, the groupies <Daemonettes>, perhaps it is time to get some roadies <Cultists>.  Still I have like 200 Daemonettes so I'd be more likely to take a Slaaneshi Daemon Brigade and EC Vanguard.

 

 

Brigad Detachment "only" need 6 troops. My mistake about that 9 Cultist i meant 6x10 Cultist so 240 points. 

[Panzer]

There is one important difference between Daemonettes and Cultists tho....Daemonettes are actually dangerous while Cultists are just annoying. :P

[DreamIsCollapsing]

True. 

 

We will have to wait the Daemon codex : Is it better to take a Emperor Children Bataillon with a Daemon Detachment or the opposite.

[Commissar K.]

I personally think that this Codex is enough reason to continue to invest more points into CSM as Daemons, for the simple reason that the Slaanesh and EC related Legion Traits, Wargear, Strategems and Warlord Traits are all relevant.

Daemonettes are fun and nice but I think their inclusion still isn't extremely required, perhaps even less now with the Slaaneshi DP just rocking the socks of anything that decides to come close. In addition I think a pair of Lighting Claws on the unit champ will also make opponets think twice about just rushing into any regular Noise Marine unit.

Basically I think Daemons will be relevant again once they have their own Traits, Wargear... you name it. Applies for pretty much all Legions at this point I feel.

[Panzer]

Yeah even without Daemons I can barely get all the units I'd like to take in a 2k list lol

[Commissar K.]

Yeah even without Daemons I can barely get all the units I'd like to take in a 2k list lol

Same here! If we force ourselfs into lists that are Daemonic the advantage gained isn't that big I feel. This largely comes from the whole 'give up movement aspect'. I mean I like the new cost on the Troop choices for all Daemons and think they are veryviable but I do not believe they are as viable as a fully 'amped' use of the Legions. Prime reason being that we hand in a lot of bonuses gained from Traits, a large part of some great Stratagems and Psycic Powes, which are some huge reasons to not do it in my opinion.

 

Next to that, I still think that EC Obliterators with the Slaanesh mark and Endless Cacophony is a very scary prospect and the advantage there is that you can basically pinpoint it wherever you deem it to be relevant. In addition I feel a big reason as to why Daemonettes are very interesting comes from Quicksilver Swiftness and Flawless Perfection does the same so yeah...

 

In the end I want to say 30 Daemonettes are certainly completely legit but also cost 210 points and the whole shebang is 235, with Legion Traits a whole lot of 235 point units can actually compete with this unit and be a simple primary inclusion for the list. Last but not least I am still not convinced that the Codex renders the EC Army Rules useless either and I do think that if this is the case Noise Marines remain a more than excellent Troop choice.