[HH1.0] Tactica Chainaxe: World Eaters

[hisdudeness]

Yes, despoilers are just Tac squads that have dropped their bolter for the extra CCW. I would never take an additional CCW, dropping both ranged weapons just means you lose out on the Fury shots.

 

Always take the free extra power axe. BS2 makes the stormbolters worthless, but the extra attack is needed. Dual chainfists give some can open in power to get at the meaty center.

[LongGone]

Oh, I wasn't suggesting to drop ranged weapons at all. I meant I didn't see much of a point in bringing Despoilers. I'd much rather keep the ability to reach out and touch a brother at 24", and then pay the extra two points for a chainsword (automatically a chainaxe ) and get +1 Attack because we also have a bolt pistol. Add in the +1 for being on the charge (hopefully), and you end up throwing quite a few To Hit rolls. Like I said, strapped for space bear!

 

Explain this free extra power axe you speak of, good Sir. I likes me sum axes!  

[AJB2K3]

Have I missed something?
Angron was my first 30K model (Along with MKV armour) I thought he had stats but yet I see no mention of him?

[hisdudeness]

Red Butchers may drop their combi-bolter to gain an extra Power Axe for free.  it's really the only way they should be run.  The combi-bolter is worthless in their hands with BS2.

 

The extra 40 pts for the CCW on despoilers is not worth it in my option, when you can get the same result for free.  If you want ranged shots; run a support squad, you can get more powerful shots.

 

Angron has stats...he's one of the (if not best) CC primarch in the game so far!

[Flint13]

Alrighty, lets get started on that next batch. Text wall incoming!!

 

1.) Depthcharge's stuff

 

-Cataphractii - Definitely true. They are one of a very select bunch of units that can actually threaten primarchs. That being said, you're probably going to loose a few trying to do so. 

 

The fact that they can't run, on top of being a huge fire magnet definitely supports the idea of getting them mounted. Whether you go all out in a blinged up Spartan, or use something less points intense like a normal raider is up to you. Just make sure whatever you put them in is an assault vehicle. 

 

I also very much agree on the mixing up of weapons, within a certain range. I've found a ratio of 3:1 hammer or fist to lightning claws typically works pretty well. From playing Night lords, and typically outnumbering to get a Talent for Murder running, it'd be more a 2:1 or 1:1, but we typically need the extra strength more than the extra attacks. What you definitely want though, is a mix of thunderhammers and at least a single chainfist. Thunderhammers have concussive, which will help the rest of the squad drag down Primarchs and other big stuff, while the chainfist gives you the non-melta option to crack open a AV14 vehicle pretty darn easily. Powerfists and combi weapons I'm not a huge fan of, but I don't hate. If I'm paying the points for a fist anyway, I might as well go ahead and make it a chainfist.

 

-Veterans - Awesome! And we'll need to get good with them anyway if we're starting with the Pride of the Legion rite. Since there are so many options here, we need to make sure that the squad, large or small, has a very distinct purpose. Otherwise, they become a big points sink which will never accomplish several jobs as well as a less expensive squad could with one.

 

Keeping that in mind, use the veteran tactics you pick to sculpt the squad to its purpose. Want to get a squad close with an independant character? Outflank and furious charge. Want to kill off obnoxious battlesuits, monstrous creatures and the like? Sniper and Fearless (plus maybe a missile launcher).

 

- Contemptors - They win battles when they sweep big targets. Occasionally you hear they are too expensive for what they do, but keep in mind that they are priced accordingly when you look at their effectiveness versus other legions. Legion marines aren't ATSKNF, so they are vulnerable to being swept after a bad combat.

 

For a ranged dread, the atomantic shielding does a great job of keeping him moderately safe, just make sure he doesn't get bold out in the open.

 

Last half from first batch

 

- Troops choices - We have an advantage in the legion of getting price cuts with larger units, this is true. Which is also why most people use large squads of marines as an "anchor" for the rest of their list. This works for us as well, as long as they are used intelligently. IE - Don't get them into combats they can't win quickly, and don't get them pie plated off the table due to lazy positioning.

 

While this is just a personal thing for me, *ALWAYS* take the extra close combat weapon. It's 2 points per marine, which is only 40 points for an entire squad. Yes, those extra points do add up a bit, but the first time you miss a charge buy this (---) much, or your opponent gets an stupidly long charge in, you'll be happy that you invested. Plus, it feels awesome to roll 40 dice for ten charging basic troops for us World Eaters ^_^

 

I'd also recommend taking the Vexilla. He's only 10 points, gives you some extra insurance in these dark days before ATSKNF, and the first time you roll a 12 on an early game LD check, you'll thank me.

 

Tactical support squads aren't a bad idea, but (and I'll keep saying this until it's ingrained) make sure they have a definite purpose. Typically the best use of them is 5 or 6 plasma gunners for cracking open heavy terminator armor or monstrous creatures you'd rather not have to fight in melee. You have better options for anti-armor so meltas typically aren't as good an option, and while cheap, flamers aren't super effective outside of the "Wall of Death" overwatch rule, so less useful there.

 

- Sergeants - Just like everything else. Keep them cheap and make sure they serve a purpose. Giving a squad a little extra omphf with a powerfist and artificer armor is nice, but it's also points 2 other tactical marines. Typically I just give him melta bombs and leave him alone. I've got other stuff to by with 20 points.

 

But, if your tactical squad is a bunker for an independent character, it's a better idea to upgrade the sergeant to be a little more effective. Your sergeant can take challenges your awesome beat stick character doesn't want, so the won't get locked in a challenge with a single unit champion when he should be dicing the squad, or get singled out by something nasty like a Primarch, Sigismund or Sevatar.

 

Unless it's Angron, of course. Then we're screwed since he can challenge anyone and everything. Of course, the good thing about playing World Eaters is rarely having to fight Angron ^_^

 

- DO NOT TAKE - I don't think there is anything in the legion list that is out and out *bad,* just options that are less efficient. Again, make sure you're spending points on something with a definite purpose for it in mind. If you really really like a unit, legion lists are typically flexible enough to make them work and support them well. 

 

So go have fun with whatever units you'd like. Just play them smart!

 

[AJB2K3]

How does one aspiring war lord keep our father safe until he is in the thick of things?
Sorry, only just ordered my gamers edition rule book set.

[Flint13]

Red Butchers may drop their combi-bolter to gain an extra Power Axe for free.  it's really the only way they should be run.  The combi-bolter is worthless in their hands with BS2.

 

The extra 40 pts for the CCW on despoilers is not worth it in my option, when you can get the same result for free.  If you want ranged shots; run a support squad, you can get more powerful shots.

 

Angron has stats...he's one of the (if not best) CC primarch in the game so far!

 

Angron is pretty balling. He obliterates any vehicles he comes into contact with, and he is one of very few things that can't be stuck in challenges he doesn't want to save a squad. His Red Sands rule is both hilariously effective and super fluffy.

 

"Champions? You, you, you, and you. Dead."

 

As for protection, you can never go wrong with a Spartan. It's a big points sink, but if you're taking a Primarch (especially Angron) it's already a big investment. Just treat him like a guided missile for your opponent's most expensive unit, and flat out that business straight up the middle.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Flint13

[AJB2K3]

 

Red Butchers may drop their combi-bolter to gain an extra Power Axe for free.  it's really the only way they should be run.  The combi-bolter is worthless in their hands with BS2.

 

The extra 40 pts for the CCW on despoilers is not worth it in my option, when you can get the same result for free.  If you want ranged shots; run a support squad, you can get more powerful shots.

 

Angron has stats...he's one of the (if not best) CC primarch in the game so far!

 

Angron is pretty balling. He obliterates any vehicles he comes into contact with, and he is one of very few things that can't be stuck in challenges he doesn't want to save a squad. His Red Sands rule is both hilariously effective and super fluffy.

 

"Champions? You, you, you, and you. Dead."

 

As for protection, you can never go wrong with a Spartan. It's a big points sink, but if you're taking a Primarch (especially Angron) it's already a big investment. Just treat him like a guided missile for your opponent's most expensive unit, and flat out that business straight up the middle.

 

Thanks, Was looking for an excuse to buy one so will put it on next months list.

[Slips]

MAAAAN Flint, as an Imperial Fists Player who is trying/is making a Sigismund beatstick focused list, what you've just said is making me strongly consider making WE a very good candidate for Second Legion/ Ally tied of course with my Idea for Air Force Raven Guard (storm eagles, darkwing Storm Eagle and Fire Raptors galore).

[LongGone]

C'mon Slipstreams, join the Gods of the Arena! We got the bestest cookies!

[Slips]

@_@ I...I will.. In due time though. Schools starting up soon and money shall be tight. Also have to start/finish painting my Boys in Yellow. Then its chain axes revving into the night (mostly because the RG force I had planned included something like 3-5 Storm Eagles/Fire Raptors...and well...that a LOT of money...)

 

*eyes the Forgeworld webstore longingly*

Edited August 11, 2014 by Slipstreams

[Flint13]

I dunno man... Sigismund is pretty baller. I think he's the only praetor comparable character that will routinely beat Sevatar or Khârn in a challenge.

 

But yes, should *totally* join our Legion, Slip. There are plenty of folks in there with no armies yet, they just use it as a fun little place to get together and discuss fluff, tactics, and all the business of XII.

[hisdudeness]

This is general, but key...ALWAYS take artificer armor for your sergeants. That 2+ matrix style shot blocking and challenge durability is great for only 10 points.

 

Drop entire squads if to must to pay for this upgrade.

[depthcharge12]

This is general, but key...ALWAYS take artificer armor for your sergeants. That 2+ matrix style shot blocking and challenge durability is great for only 10 points.

 

Drop entire squads if to must to pay for this upgrade.

 

I agree. I've personally had a sergeant tank 16 bolter shots for the whole squad.

 

However if you use him in this manner, I wouldn't recommend giving him a power weapon if he's just going to eat shots

[Russ Brother 92]

So my Arena Bound cousins... What advice would you give to an Iron Hand with a Ferrus driven Cataphractii army? In terms of allied WEs - my IHs will be solely combat driven and based around Cataphractii, Ferrys and a few other choice heavies in LRs and Spartans.

[Relict]

This is more of a general question, but with 7th Edition now out, would we be able to use it in conjunction with the FW HH books? 

[Slips]

I assume that anything Heresy Specific (Volkite Weapons et all) will remain so but anything that has crossover (such as the rules for Blind, vehicle damage chart, etc.) would take the newest and most current source.

 

Also, through your urging and a conversation with Flint I have decided to indeed roll up World Eaters as a Second Legion to work Towards \o/

[LongGone]

^ But that's how it's always been, at least to my understanding. Age of Darkness rules take precedent, and anything left over is in the BRB

 

Edit: Welcome to the red sands, Slipstreams!

Edited August 12, 2014 by LongGone

[howardmonsoonmoon]

What are peoples thoughts on despoiler squads, I have a 20 man tac squad pretty much done and a 10 man assault squad done, I was about to fill the assault squad out to 20, but now I wonder about a 15 0r 20 man despoiler squad, probably coming out of a spartan with an apocothary and combat character ???? Thoughts ?

[Slips]

I mean, they're just Tac Squads with a bolt pistol and CCW instead of a Bolter and BP. So cheaper, less maneuverable (on foot) assault marines. With WE rules, I can see them doing work. Though the more expensive 20 man tac blob with extra CCW  (so that you can fury of the Legion or assault) seems to be more flexible.

 

List I'm currently working on has 3 20 man Tac Blobs with attached Chaplain(3) and Apothecary(3) for uber slaughter. Add in 3 spartans as Heavy Assaults and 3 Contemptors with Dual DCCW with Heavy Flamers = In-your-face Murderlation.

[depthcharge12]

I mean, they're just Tac Squads with a bolt pistol and CCW instead of a Bolter and BP. So cheaper, less maneuverable (on foot) assault marines. With WE rules, I can see them doing work. Though the more expensive 20 man tac blob with extra CCW  (so that you can fury of the Legion or assault) seems to be more flexible.

 

List I'm currently working on has 3 20 man Tac Blobs with attached Chaplain(3) and Apothecary(3) for uber slaughter. Add in 3 spartans as Heavy Assaults and 3 Contemptors with Dual DCCW with Heavy Flamers = In-your-face Murderlation.

 

I dub it the totally brutal Murderface list :P

 

 

 

Now I was debating with myself for taking the legion RoW whether or not I should take big blobs of true grit tacticals or some fast moving assault marines. I mean the game is totally leaning towards shooty right now, but if you can maneuver in faster and use the legion benefits you will do much better. Here was my idea:

 

(Note, both lists are using the Berserker rite of war at 2000 points)

List 1

 

Praetor

Command squad (all on foot)

 

2 Apothecaries

2 contemptors

 

20 tacticals

+ true grit, buffed sgt

 

20 tacticals

+ true grit, buffed sgt

 

10 tacticals

+bolters only

 

2 Sicarans

+LCS

 

Idea is that the two big squads move up the field pouring in shots and protected by apothecaries and fearless banner. Dreads and Sicarans shoot stuff up and distract the enemy.

 

 

Idea 2

 

Praetor

+jump pack, gubbins

 

Primus Medicae

+jump pack, gubbins

 

2 contemptors

 

15 Assault marines

+ 2 PS, 1 PA, sgt w/AA/PF

 

15 Assault marines

+ 2 PS, 1 PA, sgt w/AA/PF

 

10 true grit tacticals

 

Sicaran

 

Sicaran

 

 

Idea is similar, but faster. 30 assault marines jump in your face and deliver death with Primus medicae and praetor to help. 10 true grit marines walk around backfield and midfield objectives, mainly to provide support. Sicarans and contemptors distract and deal with 2+ save units.

 

 

Thoughts? I know these list will have difficulties with 2+ save stars but they can definitely overwhelm the enemy with attacks to make up for it. I've played with death company and let me tell you that 40 attacks from 10 guys will eat most units.

[Slips]

I'd consider maybe having a Chaplain or two in there somewhere for Zealot which would be an added layer of redundancy in avoiding a failed morale check and lets you re-roll failed to hits in the first round a combat. Though with Hatred, the benefit is somewhat reduced in combat, re-rolling ALL attacks in the first round of combat with rage for +2A AND using a 20 man True-grit Blob, those 2+ armor and invuln saves are guaranteed to fail. 

 

To that end, I'll go into more detail about my 3k Murder-Machine list of Murder. 

 

HQ : 

3 Chaplain Consuls, Artificer Armor (come standard with a Crozius/Power Weapon)

 

Elites : 

Apothecarion Detachment : 3 Apothecaries, Artificer Armor, Augury Scanner (to prevent getting Deepstruck on)

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon : 3 Dreadnoughts, all Dual DCCW, 2 with dual Heavy Flamers, 1 with dual Twin-Linked Bolter (points limitations)

 

Troops :

3 20man True-Grit Tactical Squads, Sarges with Melta Bombs, Artificer Armor, 3 Legion Vexillas (due to WE rules, they'll all have chain axes for added fluffiness)

 

Heavy Support :

3 Legion Spartan Assault Tanks, All have Flare Shields, Armored Ceramite and TL Heavy Flamers

 

Shave of 1 of everything and turn it into a 2 of everything I have listed...List and I think it could do work. Also might free up enough points to get some variety in there!

 

Idea behind this is : shove it into your enemies army and press the on button and watch the blender go to work. Very Simple list and with the Marines being true-grit, If needed I can stand and shoot / Fury of the Legion if need be in the event that I go up against a unit I don't want to charge.

 

Also 3 Spartans should provide more than enough anti armor lol. Now...If only I had the money to buy 3 chaplains, 60 FW marines, 60 chain axes, 3 Spartans and 3 contemptors with DCCW

 

To me, such an assault heavy army needs to have a way to deliver the troops into...well.. assault. Since we're more or less of the mind that bigger is better (as FW intended) then getting 20 TG marines across the field rapidly limits your options. 1) Spartan - Nigh invulnerable Marine Spewer of Death 2) Storm Eagle - Not sure you can Assault out of it but with all the sky fire / Interceptor...might not be the best 3)Kharybdis Assault Claw - A flying Spartan thats a little less durable but offers more PEW PEW 4) Thunderhawk Transporter - If you've got the money and the points range for it, why the hell not? 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Slipstreams

[LongGone]

What are peoples thoughts on despoiler squads, I have a 20 man tac squad pretty much done and a 10 man assault squad done, I was about to fill the assault squad out to 20, but now I wonder about a 15 0r 20 man despoiler squad, probably coming out of a spartan with an apocothary and combat character ???? Thoughts ?

Can't say I see a reason to take Despoilers. For just the 40 extra points you retain the +1 Attack for two close combat weapons, and you have the ability to reach out and touch someone at 24". True grit Tac blobs seem like the bidness.

 

Murderface looks fun to play. Let us know how it goes.

[Slips]

Aye, Sadly, for us WE, True Grit Marines seem to out perform Despoilers in nearly all circumstances. Maybe not so much in lower points levels games BUT! This is 30k. YOU GO BIG OR YOU GO HOME DAMNIT!

 

As for the Murderface McKillatron 9000 list of Murder, It might take a while since while I do live within 5miles of a few FLGS, I live in the suburbs and don't drive since our public transportation service is quite good :P So that coupled with me lugging around ~66 marines + 3 Spartans + 3 Contemptors...That and School + working in a restaurant = not much time to do stuff outside of the house. Plus, I don't have 3 spartans or 3 Contemptors with dual DCCW....yet. I do however have enough marines to count as.

 

 

P.S yes with every mention of the lists name I WILL try to shove in more of the word kill and murder in there every time :p

[depthcharge12]

Lol but the chaplains lose a lot when coupled with the legion rite of war, you could save the points and just take that as it gives you hatred outside of your deployment zone.

 

 

Command squads are awesome in game and I feel a World Eater one would be sick and fluffy