[HH1.0] Tactica Chainaxe: World Eaters

[Khornestar]

Yeah, that's what I was worried about. Well, I'll think of something.

[Fangbanger]

There was a dude I was in contact with you cast his own, maybe it's the same guy guilty used?

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

More stupid questions, mostly because I can't be bothered to read the entire thread.

 

Legion Veteran Tacticals, opinions on those?

 

Rites of War other than our specific ones, opinions?

 

Assault Marines or Tactical Marines, which are the best value for points in the pressing meatgrinders in which the World Eaters excel?

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Veteran tacticals are great now. Tailos them to a specific job though. I'm running plasma guns and the shooty perk to thin out 2+ saves for my inductii.

 

Orbital assault & armored Spearhead are good but Beserker Assault reigns supreme.

[Guiltysparc]

Ya, the hatred from berserker assault synergizes so well with the LA WE rules that there isn't any reason to look at other ROWs unless its for narrative reasons.

[Flint13]

^As much as I love the idea of Orbital Assault with my World Eaters, every single time I've played with it the last few weeks, I feel like it's always missing something.

 

Infantry based legion-wide Hatred is so crazy potent. I'd like it on Dreads... buuuuut I'm not going to complain about the state of our rules :lol:

[Nova_chron]

The buffs form berserker assault have saved my bacon to many times to take anything else

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Berserker assault it is then. Will probably use a Delegatus for the Rite, rather than the more expensive Praetor. If something needs killing in H2H, I'll have angry Tacticals and Red Butchers.

[Flint13]

Yeah man, honestly the more I play with them, the more I find a girls over pearls approach working better than loaded down, expensive units.

[Terminus]

That really has always been true. Boys over toys, as it were. I loved veterans before, but if you got wonky with the upgrades, they got extremely expensive.  Even with a discount, Seekers are almost as expensive as a Terminator, so you should always weigh if you really need that upgrade. More dudes also lets you roll more dice, and dice rule all in the end.  Quantity has a quality all of its own, and when you have very cheap dudes who can put out an enormous amount of high strength attacks with a bunch of re-rolls, you don't really need to invest in superfluous baubles. Drown them in berserker dudes!

[Terminus]

By the way, all this talk of Orbital Assault vs. other rites, why not just do something stupid like this. It's pretty spammy but characterful. Didn't do the full math, just throwing stuff at the wall. Off the top of my head it comes out to a bit more than 3K so a few things may need to be trimmed here or there.

 

HQ: Forge Lord - power fist, barb-hook lash (for kewlness), cyber familiar, rad grenades

HQ: Surlak

Elites: 2x Apothecaries with artificer, power swords

Elites: 7x Red Butchers, Devoured with twin chain-fists

Elites: 10x Veterans, Sgt with artificer/fist, chain axes, 3 combi-meltas, 2 meltaguns (WS5 or machine killers)

Elites: 10x Veterans, Sgt with artificer/fist, chain axes, 3 combi-meltas, 2 meltaguns (WS5 or machine killers)

Troops: 19x Inductii Despoilers, Sgt with artificer/fist, chain axes

Troops: 19x Inductii Despoilers as above

Fast Attack: Dreadclaw (Veterans)

Fast Attack: Dreadclaw (Veterans)

Heavy Support: Kharybdis (Angron, Surlak, Forgelord, Butchers)

Heavy Support: Kharybdis (Inductii, Apothecary)

Heavy Support: Kharybdis (Inductii, Apothecary)

 

Of course, there is the insanity of three Kharybdis, lol, but you start the game with 3 of them in your opponent's grille. Alternatively drop Angron and the two Vet dreadclaws to deal with armor-heavy lists, and them have the Inductii follow-up in subsequent turns. Pretty good number of boots, with 60 marines, 7 terminators, 2 characters and Angron himself. Should have no issues with giant infantry spam lists either will all the drive-by fryings you will be doing with the craft, and the Kharybdis rockets should be adequate anti-air defense.

 

With Berserker assault, you get Hatred all around. With The Crimson Path, everyone gets +1FNP (so 3+ for Angron and friends, 4+ for inductii, 6+ for Veterans) and you will definitely have the Linebreaker VP. Only two scoring units is a thing, but not a big thing in my opinion. Seems like a better alternative to the classic Spartan assault. Biggest threat would be reserve manipulation, that could keep ~1000 points of your list back for some time, but the remaining 2000 should be very hard to deal with for anyone. Seems like a better alternative to the old Spartan assault.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Terminus

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Spartans are still viable. The cost increase was offset somewhat by the troop discount.

[Fangbanger]

I have toyed with kharybdis/anvilus lists and it always feels lacking but it is cool

 

I would still go bezerker assault though. I think vets are pretty redundant with str6 chain axes being a thing now and propose the following:

 

Angron

Surlak

Forge Lord

 

15 X inductii with p/fist

15 X inductii with p/fist

15 X tac squad with p/fist

 

2 X Apoth

Contemptor with dual grav, c.fist and combat weapon in pod

5 X butchers, chain fist in anvilus

 

Kharybdis

Kharybdis

Kharybdis

 

This leaves 280pts which can be used for a kraken lightning so you still get null deployment or load up a squad in a storm eagle to free up a heavy slot for the Levi instead of the contemptor

 

Either way, dropping down butchers, angrons giant tac pod and a dread turn one is going to be scary (and pretty similar to what I do now) following up with the second wave of prodded inductii. Or, if you just need to throw meat at the grinder, inductii down first, then follow up with the big boys

 

Although I find the Lightning a bit dull, I think it would be a good addition to take it to 3k giving some much needed anti Spartan although I find the contemptor pretty good at this, it's not as solid to rely on all the time

 

Remember inducti can now reliably glance super heavies (rear armour 12) so they can make for good anti l.o.w in a pinch too

 

Only having 5 units is savage (but hey, I only have 5 now, just in 2 Spartans rather than the extra 2 kharybdis) but those 5 units will hit like a tonne of hurt

 

I think it's a go big or go home strat, but we came here to party so screw it

[Gorgoff]

Don't you loose if at any point you don't have any models on the table?

[Fangbanger]

Both player turns yes

E.g they go first, you still have your turn to bring your pods in

[Flint13]

^+^^

 

It's a teeny bit controversial, but for what it's worth, my bunch has been playing the low stress version w/ end of the game turn.

 

As in you may play Orbital Assault and not automatically lose if you're playing Orbital Assault.

 

But I'd chat it over first.

[Fangbanger]

I thought they specifically changed it so that it wasn't the case that if you went second you lost?

[Guiltysparc]

By the way, all this talk of Orbital Assault vs. other rites, why not just do something stupid like this. It's pretty spammy but characterful. Didn't do the full math, just throwing stuff at the wall. Off the top of my head it comes out to a bit more than 3K so a few things may need to be trimmed here or there.

 

HQ: Forge Lord - power fist, barb-hook lash (for kewlness), cyber familiar, rad grenades

HQ: Surlak

Elites: 2x Apothecaries with artificer, power swords

Elites: 7x Red Butchers, Devoured with twin chain-fists

Elites: 10x Veterans, Sgt with artificer/fist, chain axes, 3 combi-meltas, 2 meltaguns (WS5 or machine killers)

Elites: 10x Veterans, Sgt with artificer/fist, chain axes, 3 combi-meltas, 2 meltaguns (WS5 or machine killers)

Troops: 19x Inductii Despoilers, Sgt with artificer/fist, chain axes

Troops: 19x Inductii Despoilers as above

Fast Attack: Dreadclaw (Veterans)

Fast Attack: Dreadclaw (Veterans)

Heavy Support: Kharybdis (Angron, Surlak, Forgelord, Butchers)

Heavy Support: Kharybdis (Inductii, Apothecary)

Heavy Support: Kharybdis (Inductii, Apothecary)

 

Of course, there is the insanity of three Kharybdis, lol, but you start the game with 3 of them in your opponent's grille. Alternatively drop Angron and the two Vet dreadclaws to deal with armor-heavy lists, and them have the Inductii follow-up in subsequent turns. Pretty good number of boots, with 60 marines, 7 terminators, 2 characters and Angron himself. Should have no issues with giant infantry spam lists either will all the drive-by fryings you will be doing with the craft, and the Kharybdis rockets should be adequate anti-air defense.

 

With Berserker assault, you get Hatred all around. With The Crimson Path, everyone gets +1FNP (so 3+ for Angron and friends, 4+ for inductii, 6+ for Veterans) and you will definitely have the Linebreaker VP. Only two scoring units is a thing, but not a big thing in my opinion. Seems like a better alternative to the classic Spartan assault. Biggest threat would be reserve manipulation, that could keep ~1000 points of your list back for some time, but the remaining 2000 should be very hard to deal with for anyone. Seems like a better alternative to the old Spartan assault.

 

You need three troops for our rites of war, so you couldn't run this list as BA or CP, but just swap one of the vet squads for another inductii unit and off you go.

[Guiltysparc]

I thought they specifically changed it so that it wasn't the case that if you went second you lost?

 

The text that was posted from the new red book in the rules forum actually indicates that the 'no units' check happens at the end of each player turn, so OA could be pretty dicey.  I just ordered the new book so i haven't actually read the text in question yet.

[Flint13]

^That is correct. 

[Fangbanger]

Oh :cuss, missed that one

[Fangbanger]

Ah yeah there it is... To be honest if you claim a victory because you got first turn against a drop pod army, go kill yourself

[Baluc]

OA doesn't force every unit with DS to deploy by DS. However if a unit has a DP than it must deploy in said drop pod. So for example the Red Butchers could deploy normally, as could the infantry squads... it would be very against the spirit of the game to not put them in the Kharybdis or dreadclaw though.

[Khornestar]

@Fang

 

Haha! That's one way of looking at it. Others would feel just fine, as the game designers clearly don't want that situation to happen.

 

I would be annoyed setting up all my models just for the game to end. Although, I suppose we'd know based on army list and who goes first there's a 5/6 chance the game would end.

 

From another perspective, a player who can inflict no damage whatsoever until their second turn (unless they have interceptor, I guess) might feel pretty lame about that sort of thing, too. Playing KDK, I'm used to that. ;)

 

Just some thoughts. We don't always get to have our way, and having a unit on the table isn't the end of the world.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Venomlust

[Flint13]

^Typically I'd agree.

 

But the entire point of the narrative behind Orbital Assault is a lightning assault falling from the heavens as drop pods are launched from orbiting landers.

 

Space Marines are purpose built for that entire way of war.

 

And I'll agree, having a unit or two on the table isn't the worst thing ever. But neither is having a free turn not shooting at your opponent. Gives you time to poodle around, maybe get some things on objectives. 

 

My gaming group has tried it out both ways and we've stuck with end of the game turn instead of player turn.