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[Vilicate]

Well I can't duplicate things, so the Cabal was my first idea, but then the problem of auxiliary hit me and I think it would be the Tzang herd. lol

 Can you take the Tzaangor herd in Highlander?  I thought you had to take one of every troop you were allowed before duplication?  So without taking CSM or Cultists, you'd be out of luck.  Right? 

 

I'm actually not sure that I've played anything but single CAD highlander.

[Prot]

 

Well I can't duplicate things, so the Cabal was my first idea, but then the problem of auxiliary hit me and I think it would be the Tzang herd. lol

 Can you take the Tzaangor herd in Highlander?  I thought you had to take one of every troop you were allowed before duplication?  So without taking CSM or Cultists, you'd be out of luck.  Right? 

 

I'm actually not sure that I've played anything but single CAD highlander.

 

 

Oh wow. You're right. It can't be done... darn. I wanted Tzaangors but not Tzaangors + Cultists + Rubrics. I have to take a larger Cabal and a vehicle aux I guess. Kinda sucks because I think Thousand Sons need the numbers buffer. 

[Sonoftherubric21]

Okay guys I have a basic question for you.

 

I'm struggling to make a 1500 Pt list in a "highlander" format. (so everything's unique except troop transports and troops are repeatable if you field both types you have at least once - so a one troop type army could spam them because they don't have a choice).

 

The problem I'm having is it's locked to 2 formations max. So I really want to play a Cabal, but not get my dusty butt handed to me. It's looking grim for a potential list because this takes Sekhmet Core right off the table (duplicates Scarab Occult).

 

So I figured out a base Cabal, and a vanilla auxiliary... something like Tzaangor Warherd. 

 

I guess a flat out question I have is this (But assume for the sake of argument I want Ahriman in the army period):

 

- Would you still try for the Cabal (War Coven)? And an Aux? (equals 2 formations)

 

- OR Would you just do a CAD and an ally? (or no ally... could be just a CAD).

 

My feeling is 1K sons may have fun in Highlander because they're a little hampered in competitve scene, but with Highlander I don't have to worry about super friends/Decurions/Battle Co's/Super Heavies/Surges/Magnus/etc.

 

Otherwise I have other armies to take. I just wanted to get your take on this as I'm considering doing it with Thousand Sons!

 

This is what I would take given your parameters;  (first shot at a  list like this) 

 

War cabal - Ahriman leading as you requested, on disc.

- Exalted sorcerer, Astral Grimoire

- Scarab Occult x5, reaper/missile

- Rubrics x10, soul reaper, rhino

 

- Aux

-Maulerfriend

-Helbrute

-Forgefiend with duel cannons and Plasma face. 

 

1500 flat. I think this is a very capable list given the highlander format. Tough, hard to remove, good AP, dangerous to vehicles, decent casting for the points and great damage through Ahriman and the walkers. 

 

Let me know what you think Prot!

 

- Edit; just saw 2 formations max, do tehy count the indivual aux as formations? 

[Prot]

Well I had a game with the Highlander format with a base Cabal and a Maulerfiend. It was my first real loss in a long time. Just way too many points wrapped up in a deathstar Scarab squad. I got sandbagged by Celestine and even with Ahriman and Seer's Bane I could not get out and got destroyed (nearly tabled and I could only remove one unit of his). This format is incredibly restrictive for pure Thousand Sons I may have to consider a different army.

 

Rubric- thanks for the suggestion but Highlander is 2 Detachments/formations max.

[Zodd1888]

What's the meta look like for you? I guess that's probably the biggest change to how you'd have to make the new list. Are allies allowed and are you willing to take them?

[Prot]

Well honestly the meta is tough but everyone has to play by these rules. There isn't even LoW allowed so this is a rare case where I don't have to stare down Surges, etc. I'm just not sure a Grand Cabal will work here. That said I know there will be at least one Tzeentch summoning list but I don't want to go that deep down the Daemon rabbit hole but I'm starting to wonder if for this I have to ally with a Herald and a squad of 11 horrors and try to figure out the Cabal from there. Honestly I wouldn't really know how to play it.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Well honestly the meta is tough but everyone has to play by these rules. There isn't even LoW allowed so this is a rare case where I don't have to stare down Surges, etc. I'm just not sure a Grand Cabal will work here. That said I know there will be at least one Tzeentch summoning list but I don't want to go that deep down the Daemon rabbit hole but I'm starting to wonder if for this I have to ally with a Herald and a squad of 11 horrors and try to figure out the Cabal from there. Honestly I wouldn't really know how to play it.

 

Ive got it; Drop the Grand coven idea....go with what I stated earlier; but drop the Exalted champion. 

 

Instead take a naked sorcerer with mark of tzeentch as the secondary option, then to fullfill the "unique options" choices take a Hellforged Warpack.

 

Thats 2 formations, helforged warpack, War Cabal with what I stated earlier.  and a Helbrute with 4++, the mauler and forgefiend, Ahriman, fullfill all highlander rules, and fits snuggly at 1500.  (swap soul reaper for Grimoire on sorcerer or Warp smith if you were so inclined) 

 

Gives AP 2, the 2 walkers that are melee-capable....gives a Forgefiend to help with AT / AP 2, gives the 5 scarab occult with weapons options, gives the rubricae squad to  clean up infantry.  Only 8 Warp Charges but good firepower and decent Melee to make up for it. 

 

Thoughts? 

[Prot]

It's a good idea. I'm not sure though. The Cabal is okay. I'm just not sure about the Warpack.

 

It's cool in theory, the 3 different Vehicles do add some target saturation. They might actually do something which would be a bonus.

 

The Cabal you've suggested I've played with two variants:

1 keeps the Termie Sorc w/Axe and Astral with 7 Scarabs and a 5 man Rubric in a Rhino

2 gets the Rubrics to 10 with a Soul reaper, turns down the Scarabs to 5, with only the Hellfyre (The soulreaper seems better on the Rubrics for a few reasons).

 

The problem I'm seeing with this is generating only 4 'non-tzeentch' abilities with a total of 8 warp charges. Ouch.

 

Positives: I love the 10 man Rubes, Soulreaper in a Rhino infiltrating. I think if I'm facing armour, it's a no brainer to roll Ahriman on Heretech and go to town on empowering/fixing vehicles while scrap coding the opponent.

 

Negatives: Warp charges, small 'deathstar' . A lot of light AV. No killer CC character (my test game had an Exalted with Seer's Bane on Disk, ML2 + Familiar... he went beastmode twice and was the only thing that could beat down Celestine (AP2).

 

I will say without taking a proper cabal there's a concern (I don't know how valid). The thing I note about the Cabal is in every game, including my last, the re-roll on perils is very good. The ability to roll an extra power attempt when your list has a few ML1 sorcs is also quite good (especially if one of your powers is Siphon).

 

In my game against marines + Celestine, I actually had my Exalted Sorc Perils twice on Sinistrum's +2 attack/S/T/I ability.... both times he rolled a 1 and a 2 which were re-rolled to 6's giving him 2 to wound on his Seer's Bane... he was incredible. But that being said celestine laughed most of it off, but she couldn't do squad to him either. The difference is she's pretty much got a built in look out sir to regenerating bodyguards. lol

[Prot]

Guys please ignore the above posts.

 

After some play testing I've hit a wall and it's probably too complicated to muddy up this thread, so if you don't mind I've taken a list to the list area for your advice. I'd appreciate some thoughts here:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330589-1500-pts-competitive-thousand-sons-highlander-style/?p=4643595

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d169/mateus909/Mobile%20Uploads/20170212_142232.jpg

 

The Thrallband grows!!! Some blue horrors, brimstone horrors and my herald of tzeentch.

 

Going to be running these as follows:

 

Thousand Sons CAD

 

Exalted Sorceror. ML3. Aethenean Scrolls. Spell Familiar. Rolling on Heretech.

 

8 man rubric squad with an aspiring sorceror.

 

8 man rubric squad with an aspiring sorceror.

 

Daemon Allies

 

Herald of Tzeentch. ML3.

 

10 man blue horrors squad

 

Total: 850 points

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d169/mateus909/Mobile%20Uploads/20170212_142232.jpg

 

The Thrallband grows!!! Some blue horrors, brimstone horrors and my herald of tzeentch.

 

Going to be running these as follows:

 

Thousand Sons CAD

 

Exalted Sorceror. ML3. Aethenean Scrolls. Spell Familiar. Rolling on Heretech.

 

8 man rubric squad with an aspiring sorceror.

 

8 man rubric squad with an aspiring sorceror.

 

Daemon Allies

 

Herald of Tzeentch. ML3.

 

10 man blue horrors squad

 

Total: 850 points

Taking this out for a spin tonight. Wish me Tzeentch's Favor brethren!

[Archaeinox]

Welp I ran this today:

 

1850

[War Cabal]

-Ahriman (Warlord)

-5 Scarab Occult Terminators w/ Hellfyre

-5 Scarab Occult Terminators w/ Hellfyre

-5 Scarab Occult Terminators w/ Hellfyre

-5 Rubric Marines

-5 Rubric Marines w/ Flamer x2, Rhino

-5 Rubric Marines w/ Flamer x2, Rhino

-Sorc w/ Melta Bombs

-Sorc

-Sorc

 

Fought Iron Hands and everything was either Thunderfired to death or stuck in combat (Contemptors and IH bike deathstar). I rolled a lot of 1s and couldnt deal damage.

 

Ahriman killed 5 devastators and a librarian and had to roll on the boon table.. Spawn.

 

God it was awful lmao.

 

Unless I run Exiles, my lists are pretty disappointing vs. the local opponents.

 

I am losing some steam BUT I am glad to see threads like this!!!!

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Welp I ran this today:

 

1850

[War Cabal]

-Ahriman (Warlord)

-5 Scarab Occult Terminators w/ Hellfyre

-5 Scarab Occult Terminators w/ Hellfyre

-5 Scarab Occult Terminators w/ Hellfyre

-5 Rubric Marines

-5 Rubric Marines w/ Flamer x2, Rhino

-5 Rubric Marines w/ Flamer x2, Rhino

-Sorc w/ Melta Bombs

-Sorc

-Sorc

 

Fought Iron Hands and everything was either Thunderfired to death or stuck in combat (Contemptors and IH bike deathstar). I rolled a lot of 1s and couldnt deal damage.

 

Ahriman killed 5 devastators and a librarian and had to roll on the boon table.. Spawn.

 

God it was awful lmao.

 

It would appear as though the superior list for me to run is the Exiles + Fateweaver and some Screamers.. As usual. Sigh

 

Unless I run Exiles, my lists are pretty disappointing vs. the local opponents.

aww. don't give up hope!

[Prot]

You could forgo the maxed Cabal. I have said this many times because I get some opponents that think it's unbeatable but they present very little AP2 threat and you feel like a god re-rolling 1's. Then you face a Grav or Tau list and now re-rolling 1s isn't enough.

 

I bet in this game you could have possibly changed the outcome drastically without the max Cabal and juicing up your characters. Because then it becomes less about the matchup and more about your target selection.

 

I have played the max Cabal quite a bit and in some games I found the survival is good but you just can't deal damage to some opponents.

 

Astral Grimoire and Seers Bane have become my latest favourites. If I need survival I'll just fish for Warp fate. But the damage potential is much greater in a none max Cabal. The other thing with the max Cabal I found is because of lack of damage you rely so heavily on power selection the game can be dictated before you deploy.

 

Also iron Hands, especially rocking the Fist of Medusa are no joke. Don't cut yourself too short.

 

Ps. Did you ever end up summoning anything?

[Archaeinox]

Horrors that kept the IH bike star in combat for a long time.. blues charging in, etc etc..

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Had a couple of small games last night and came away with two conclusions.

 

1-daemons really are the ideal back objective WC batteries we need.

 

2-im not sure how im going to want to kit out my exalted on disc. I tried one game casting from heretech equipped with the scrolls and a familiar and it was...ok i guess. The other game i had him equipped with the seers bane and he got warp fate and daemonic blood from sinistrum and he just wrecked face in cc!

 

What do you guys think? Anti-tank or cc beast?

[MoGuy]

 

 

What do you guys think? Anti-tank or cc beast?

 

Both. :P I would suggest building the army around the Sorcerers, not the other way around. I've seen plenty of people who start to strip upgrades from the ES to take that Soulreaper Cannon etc. 

 

I would run multiple Sorcerers. I would also go for Exalted Sorcerers. They are more expensive but those three wounds, the better stats and the lance is just too good to pass. You will probably peril so having 3 instead of 2 wounds will make a huge difference. One of the ES should roll on Heretech. Always. That way you have some anti-tank. The spell familiar is mandatory too. A second Exalted Sorcerer can take the Seers Bane. He could roll on Biomancy but I find that he doesn't need it. The few games I've played he destroyed absolutely every unit I send him in in a single round of combat. 6 attacks on the charge plus D6 for the daemon weapon is just insanely strong. And everything that isn't T6 just evaporates. I just rolled on the Tzeentch discipline since I had another ES that rolled on Heretech and a normal Sorcerer with TDA joining the Termis who either rolled on Sinistrum for Twisted Fate (I find that a bit cheesy to be honest) or on Ectomancy for the movement powers. Give him the Astral Grimoire and just push the Termis up the field and into your opponent's face. 

 

If you fight MEQs an ES on disc with the Burning Brand of Skalathrax is also very deadly. Being able to fly 12" and then just roast stuff with a torrent flamer is really nasty. 

 

I've also managed to do alright without Daemon allies. The Exalted Sorc who rolled on Tzeentch manages to get Siphon Magic quite reliably and thus becomes almost self-sufficient. Only question I have is if he generates warp charges himself...?

[Archaeinox]

If Siphon is up, he gets 1 charge from spells he cast after.

[MoGuy]

 

If Siphon is up, he gets 1 charge from spells he cast after.

 

 

I think so too but my LGS is disagreeing, saying that he isn't inside the 18" bubble, since we measure from his base. And rules as intended sound a lot like GW didn't mean for it to work for the caster himself.

[Prot]

Had a couple of small games last night and came away with two conclusions.

1-daemons really are the ideal back objective WC batteries we need.

2-im not sure how im going to want to kit out my exalted on disc. I tried one game casting from heretech equipped with the scrolls and a familiar and it was...ok i guess. The other game i had him equipped with the seers bane and he got warp fate and daemonic blood from sinistrum and he just wrecked face in cc!

What do you guys think? Anti-tank or cc beast?

  

 

I think with seers Bane you become the challenge boss. Use you Psychic powers accordingly. Ahriman is there to roll on Heretech but only if there's lots of armour.

 

I gotta start getting a better understanding of Daemons and summoning myself or it's going to be a rough go with this armynfor me. It wasn't a route I wanted to go on but don't see much of a choice now.

 

 

 

If Siphon is up, he gets 1 charge from spells he cast after.

 

I think so too but my LGS is disagreeing, saying that he isn't inside the 18" bubble, since we measure from his base. And rules as intended sound a lot like GW didn't mean for it to work for the caster himself.

Honestly as written I think it should work, but whatever. I've hardly found it to be a big deal breaker. It's so funny how people react to it but what they rarely realize is the true limiting factor on this is the Siphon user is limited to Psychic attempts based on mastery level +1 at best. Include the fact it's using dice to cast and a power use itself and it's really a joke for people to get worked up on it. In fact I just flat out stopped using it on low level sorcs....it's not worth the risk of dice.

[Archaeinox]

So I guess Boon of Mutation doesnt work on the psyker, either. Your group is funny

[Prot]

So I guess Boon of Mutation doesnt work on the psyker, either. Your group is funny

Oh I agree with you. I play in a few groups so I just go with the flow. I literally don't think it's that big a deal but if my opponent thinks it's abusive ( which I really don't believe it is for reasons I mentioned) then I have no trouble not using it at all.

 

Arch, hindsight being what it is, what do you think you could have done to be more effective against that Iton Hands list? It is a fairly common build.

[MoGuy]

 

 

So I guess Boon of Mutation doesnt work on the psyker, either. Your group is funny 

 

Yeah, I know. But tabletop is always a social contract. If my opponent thinks that generating extra dice is too cheesy then I'll say alright and play it his way. 

[Archaeinox]

I hear ya man

 

Prot, I do agree with you that the minimum/maxed Cabal's effectiveness is dictated heavily by its power list. So in keeping with that, I am not sure I could have done anything other than default to Summoning and just keep stuff delayed until I can claim objectives with the terminators and sorcerers. The master is unkillable unless you use Baleful Devolution, get 6s, and he just rolls terribly.

[Prot]

Hey guys, I just ran into a bit of an issue.... 

 

Flyers.

 

Any suggestions that would make sense for Thousand Sons while still keeping the list non-tailored? I keep thinking there must be something psychic wise I can lean on? Aside from Corrupt Machine, I'm not sure if the psychic phase can help us there?