++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Sonoftherubric21]

My summations were correct! 2 points infernos, 3 point combi, 1 point pistol. and 20 point soul reaper. 

 

Unit of 10 with soul reaper, comes out to 243! and icon of flame is 10 points, but i havent seen confirmation of rules yet. 

 

Warp flamers are EXPENSIVE. 15 each, Soul reapers 20, warp flame pistol is 7. 

So tossing a couple into the unit isnt a bad idea, but beyond 2 it gets prohibitive. 

[Scammel]

The rule of one is a really hard pill to swallow in larger games. What was that guff about Magnus no longer hogging all the powers? I quite like Smite but I'll be damn sick of it after attempting to cast it for the 20th time in a single game.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Id say we will be fine once we get our own 3 spell lore, and remember daemons are a thing for us to.  So we have access to Tzeentch, Hereticus, and obviously tons of smite.....

Its not awful when you realize that well our psyker phase may have been nerfed, our actual ARMY became capable in of itself. Which is a huge massive step in the right direction. 

[Zodd1888]

I'm confused.

 

The chaotic daemon prince of sorcerers and his followers don't have their own psychic powers but the puss filled puke faced Nurglers have Contagion?

 

 

Something stinks... And it isn't just Nurglings.

[MoGuy]

Little bit disappointed that we don't have our own discipline in the index but Deathguard does... 

 

About rule of one: Can I attempt to cast a power multiple times with different Sorcerers until I successfully get if off? Or can I try only once and then have to wait again till my next psychic phase?

 

The Exalted Sorcerers actually granting a buff to the units around them is quite nice! 

[Scammel]

I'm confused.

 

The chaotic daemon prince of sorcerers and his followers don't have their own psychic powers but the puss filled puke faced Nurglers have Contagion?

 

 

Something stinks... And it isn't just Nurglings.

At this point I think it's safe to assume that a dedicated Sons book/pamphlet is on the way - they do, after all, get a discrete mention on the new site: https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/

[Sonoftherubric21]

Ill bet money we are the second codex for chaos to come out after Death Guard. thats why they have contagion, we have the newest models aside from DG, give it some time gents. 

Please have perspective, we have been given a TON of bonuses and abilities to compensate for our sorcerers being a bit more..shall we say "toned down"? which i am 100% okay with, we are dangerous as hell in both Melee and shooting due to high AP volume shooting, and of course D3 per force weapon in melee 

Along with the ability to SPAM mortal wounds.  We will be A; okay.  And as I said; Rubricae are now a premiere troop unit. Dust bunnies have just come into their own gents. 

[Archaeinox]

Working on the Ahriman Tactica this weekend. Gonna test Ahriman hard.

 

Ahriman on foot will probably be superior.. Cheaper in points.

 

Prescience on Scarab Occult ftw.

 

(Glad I only have 4 Rubrics with warpflamers out of 20)

[Zodd1888]

I know we're going to get our own dex but it just seems so redundant and laborious to do these partial, nearly full, releases for TSons.

 

WoM for end of 7th, partial release at start of 8th, and another dex within the year (or around that)? Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with how things have played out stats and rules for the most part.

 

My issue is I chose TSons as Masters of Magic and they're releasing them as rend jack of all/master of none.

 

Magic in 40k is being reduced (granted I do like TSons updated style). As the faction that is entirely based around casting as Psykers they currently lack there uniqueness in their chosen trade. No other faction is about spell slinging. Grey Knights hunt demons, Eldar are a dying race who utilize warp energies but don't take it upon themselves as a driving characteristic of their factions. TSons are Sorcerers for Tizca's sake!

 

You're telling me the loyalist chapters, or DG, that have their own disciplines at launch make more sense than the dusted remnants of the most psychicly focused humans in the galaxy? That seems like some significant oversight from a lore standpoint alone.

 

Edit: Sorry for the rant. I'm just shocked more than anything. I'm a hobbyist more than a gamer so it doesn't impact me as much. From a business standpoint, I feel like this is a significant marketing error to the TSons brand. Even if a dex is in the works you shouldn't avoid including a discipline if it's already made, or cause your key sales demographic undue hardship when comparing to a similar product (ie. DG) by including it without a dex.

[Paladin777]

As someone who was in love with the psychic phase for the most part, I'm very underwhelmed with our sorcerers now. If you take Magnus or Ahriman, either one can completely tap out your non-smite spell casting per psychic phase.

 

There may have been some real problems with the psychic phase, but I felt that it was the first time our space wizards actually felt like the sorcerous monsters that I always thought they should have been.

 

So while I'm very excited to see how the rubrics are on the tabletop, I just can't say the same about our sorcerers as they look now.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I forsee my 50 rubricae army on the horizon.....And for maximum Lulz a unit of 10 Rubricae coming out of a land raider with 9 warp flamers / warp pistol.  Inefficient points use? certainly.  Fun? HELLLLL YES. 

Scarab Occult are also quite nice, and good news gents! 

Sorcerer with stave/combi, soul reaper, hellfyre rack, 4 power swords, 3 combis, 262 points according to what we have here!

 

 Not bad for a full squad load out!  FAR cheaper then last edition, and an innate 1+ armor save meaning we can suffer -1 ap and still have a 2+ on termies.  With the nearby sorcerers buffing we are looking at a 2+/4++/5++ situational re-rolling 1's on INVUL saves only.   (the reason its situationally a 2+/4++ for rubrics and scarab occult is that All is Dust is still a "saving throw" therefore against high -AP rend value weapons we will still receive a 4+ invul, re-rolling ones)

 

I forsee less sorcerers in our lists as of the moment, and more actual troops/termies/tzaangors with supplementary cultists!  Autoguns and Autopstiols are 0 points, so Tzaangors with pistols are still 7 points, and have an innate 5++ invul, and guess what folks? They are infantry and as such benefit from ahriman/exalted/magnus.  This makes them INCREDIBLY points effective for what they do, and are a cut above cultists in a legit way making those extra 2 points rather nice. ill be giving them guns this edition as its free and the shooting when engaged is big. 

 

Essentially we have traded a "spam sorcerers ad-nauseam" for a Functional army list. That is less random and far more reliable on the table. 

 

TL;DR, just by going over what we have in front of us I honestly say that ill take this army against anyone, and anything. bring it. 

[Raven1]

I have 20 freaking Tzaangors without Autopistols. I dont really feel like ripping off all those arms! Also interesting that the instruments made it in but not the banners. Maybe I'll mske the last 10 with auto pistols just to switch things up a bit.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I have 20 freaking Tzaangors without Autopistols. I dont really feel like ripping off all those arms! Also interesting thst the instruments made it in but not the banners. Maybe I'll mske the last 10 with auto pistols just to switch things up a bit.

 

the blades are better in melee (duh) but the pistols give ranged threat and its the same points cost. its a trade off. and you can mix them in the unit. which I do for character differentiation letting the character be a bit more dangerous in the squad then the rest. 

[Paladin777]

I haven't seen the SO Termies. Could someone provide a link or something as I didn't see them in SotR's link.

[Prot]

My summations were correct! 2 points infernos, 3 point combi, 1 point pistol. and 20 point soul reaper. 

 

Unit of 10 with soul reaper, comes out to 243! and icon of flame is 10 points, but i havent seen confirmation of rules yet. 

 

Warp flamers are EXPENSIVE. 15 each, Soul reapers 20, warp flame pistol is 7. 

 

So tossing a couple into the unit isnt a bad idea, but beyond 2 it gets prohibitive. 

 

Warp flamers are 15? That is absolutely ridiculous. Are you sure of this?

 

What about Heavy Warp Flamers? OR is that 15 points for the Scarab Occult version? 

 

243 Pts is probably bare minimum of how I'd run them gear wise, but to be honest  I wanted a reason to use an Icon but at 243 it's really cost prohibitive.  I wonder how much 5 Scarab Termies is, because if I understand correctly you get the added survivability, 2 shots at 24" and pretty much eliminate the need for the Soul Reaper. 

 

I think the thing I was most looking forward to as far as builds is using 4 flamers in a squad for short range action but at prospectively 60 points... ugh, I just can't see it.  Especially now that we know Rhino's are about 70 points?

 

Well I guess if I really still want to hold on to the Rubric dream it means no toys. 

 

Sorcerer with stave/combi, soul reaper, hellfyre rack, 4 power swords, 3 combis, 262 points according to what we have here!

 

 

By Magnus' Horns that's what I was afraid of. Also I really don't see the need for the Soul Reaper, and the missiles are MUCH better this edition with split fire and D2 -4 AP (I think). 

 

So yea... back to Scarab Occult for real games, dust bunnies for funzies. There has to be something I'm not understanding here. 

[Archaeinox]

It's 15pts for a Warpflamer, looking at it right meow

[Prot]

I have 20 freaking Tzaangors without Autopistols. I dont really feel like ripping off all those arms! Also interesting that the instruments made it in but not the banners. Maybe I'll mske the last 10 with auto pistols just to switch things up a bit.

 

oh.... man, I have 30...! I have to rip arms off of at least 10. I just finished 10 Cultists and to be honest they will work because dirt cheap at 50 points is what I'll need to play with some toys. But Tzaangors seem a better buy, especially with pistols/swords. I am so kicking myself in the butt for doing them ALL in double armed load out. 

 

I do have all the pistol sword bitz though. I think I just probably will have to buy another 10 bloody goats... ack. 

 

I will have to wait for the rest of the news before I start ripping stuff apart... Magnus may not make it in lists at this point though unless psyker wise there's good news we don't know about. 

 

One good piece of news here is I can definitely stop painting Flamers.  (I just for the life of me can't figure out why they are 15 when they are replacing an uber bolter?)

[MoGuy]

So if those new Primaris Marines would shoot at our Scarab Occult Termis, they would still get their 2+ armour save because of the "All Is Dust" rule, correct? And about 260 points for a fully outfitted squad is AWESOME! 

 

I mean just think about it! You deepstrike these guys somewhere on Turn 1, the Termi Sorcerer pops Warptime and moves them 5" closer (I assume he'll be able to cast Smite + 1 additional power so you can just choose the movement one). They are now 4" away from their target and just blast the HELL out of it with either 20 S4 AP-2 shots (4 of which are S5 from the Soulreaper) or the Hellfyre Termi doesn't shoot his bolter and instead throws some rockets in there. And then they charge their target, swinging with their forceweapons. Sweet, Tzeentch, THE PAIN! >_>

 

I just hope my normal vanilla Cultists will be good for something, now that Tzaangors are actually a viable alternative, lol. 

[Archaeinox]

SOTs have force weapons? Surely just the sorcerer?

[MoGuy]

I assume they all have force weapons since normal Grey Knights Squads also all have force weapons.

[Paladin777]

But grey knights have always been all psykers all with force weapons. Our scarab occult termies are terminator dust bunnies led by a sorcerer. I don't think that's a fair comparison.

[Prot]

I assume they all have force weapons since normal Grey Knights Squads also all have force weapons.

We don't have brotherhood of Psykers historically. Thus is why I've been saying perils s super nasty for us. GK can just remove a low point model, we will effectively lose the actual sorcerer. But I am still of the belief we have some mitigating factor.

 

Anyway I would not suspect at this point that Scarabs are brotherhood of Psyker and Rubrics most certainly will not be.

[Paladin777]

Another reason I'm really disappointed in sorcerers. It's very high risk for far less reward.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

So yea... back to Scarab Occult for real games, dust bunnies for funzies. There has to be something I'm not understanding here. 

 

Prot what the heck are you talking about? Rubricae are the best they have ever been by a HUGE overwhelming margin. they are a tourney-worthy unit man.  I do agree that Flamers are overpriced at 15 a pop, but id still take 1 in a unit, maybe 2, it punishes charges hugely. 

 

I see it, I see how that unit within our army list truly benefits. The Rubricae are FANTASTIC. for 20 points a model? 240 for a unit? Whats the issue man? they got cheaper AND better in almost every conceivable way.  They are a premiere troop unit at least in my eyes. I mean thats how I see them, they have more ability now more so then ever to threaten almost anything in the game. and not in a "plink you to death" kinda way.  The Icon is debatable, a 16% chance for an automatic wound.....not bad, and if it goes off once a game it probably paid itself back. 

 

How good would they have to be for you to consider them worthy of "real" games? I really cant wrap my head around it.  I plan on taking them into even hyper-competitive games.  Although I know you said that your luck with... 2+ save is perhaps lacking which I am sure is part of it lol. 

 

Albeit I will say this for the analysis: for their points scarab occult are also VERY good. and obviously ill use plenty of them :p  but Rubrics are...really really good IMHO. 

 

 

[Archaeinox]

5 Scarabs with Staff, TL Inferno Bolter x5 and Helfyre Missiles are 249.

 

10 Rubric Marines with Staff, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Inferno Bolters, 2 Warpflamers and a Soulreaper are 275.

 

Fair cost, I'd say. 

 

Rhino x2 are in my list to help the 2 units of Rubric Marines along.