XIII - How I stopped worrying...Painting Started! ^_^

[Aqui]

Hello! I don't come in to the Age of Darkness forum often as until recently, I was not really sure which direction I wanted to go. There are a number of Legions I wanted to model and paint for my foray into the Heresy:

Blood Angels

Iron Hands

Space Wolves

And the Ultramarines. I decided on the latter, but then the next problem came up. I wanted to do a force that would eventually become a Second Founding Chapter to tie into my 40K forces. I pondered for months for a way to get my Rainbow Warriors as a Second Founding Chapter, but I found it too difficult to find a convincing way of doing it. It doesn't help that their official Founding status is unknown, and if GW/FW officially put them in a later one, then all my work would be undone

I was just going to go ahead and do Ultramarines proper, but earlier on this evening I was idly looking through Lexicanum's entry on the Ultramarines' successors and came across the Inceptors. They are (according to Lexicanum) Second Founding, but they have no known Chapter symbol, no known colours. Virtually nothing.

This Chapter allows me to flesh out a Chapter that has little detail on, which satisfies the part of me that gravitated to the Liber.

Result!

I hope to get the three current rule books around Christmas, when (hopefully) the bonus the company I work for comes through (assuming the targets head office have been met). I'll be making a trip to GWHQ to get them, plus a few models to start them off. There will be Beakies. Many Beakies, plus a good number of Mark III and IV for good measure

So, whilst this topic may go quiet due to lack of suitable models, I hope to use it to build the background framework that brings them to life. I've only read "Know no Fear" regarding the Ultramarines, which is what decided which Legion to do in the first place If there are any books that are recommended reading in this endeavour, I'd appreciate it greatly if I was given a heads up!

So, to their look. I've been mulling over their colours. Naturally, I'd love a really cool scheme, but I'm realistic in that I have to be able to paint it to a standard I'm happy with many times over. I'm currently considering a half and half scheme similar to the Marines Errant, a Chapter I've always been fond of. I've never done a half and half before, but I figured that I should push myself a bit for this project.

The colours. I'm kinda stuck here. I don't want red, mainly as that always invokes in my mind either the Blood Angels or the Word Bearers later in the Heresy. Also, the Genesis Chapter are red, so I wish to avoid confusion with them. I won't rule it out completely, however. I'm not good at painting white, but if I could get a good contrast colour, then it might be cool. Perhaps an off white, or ivory similar to the Deathwing?

As for the Chapter symbol, I want something that invokes their name (but is relatively easy to paint or make a decal for). Searching for something suitable has brought no results so far, but this project is early onin it's...okay, no jokes!

Hopefully, I'll be able to keep momentum going on this topic. I'll be painting a few Mark VII Marines (the snap together ones), to get an idea of what I'll go with. I also hope to do a 1K 40K Inceptors army eventually, so it'll help with that too

Thanks for looking!

[Slips]

Welcome to the Heresy dear Aquilanus, you've just taken the first step down this rabbit hole and what a ride it shall be :D

[Conn Eremon]

When I think of the Inceptors, I imagine them in a pale green. Don't know why, though (EDIT: Invaders. I was thinking of the Invaders). How are you planning to do the scheme? Is it going to be dominantly Ultramarines blue, with a pauldron or other markings being picked out in this Chapter's colors, or just the banners? Or are you completely getting rid of the Ultramarines look?

 

In case you still might harbor some interests in doing a Rainbow Warrior Chapter set in the Age of Darkness, I would like to point out that it is established lore that multiple Chapters with the same name, colors and iconography have existed thanks to recycling identities, and could potentially even exist simultaneously. Though it is likely rare, but it allows you to do what you want to do, with either of those Chapters, and not worry about if it gets changed on you. Of course, Inceptors less so, because as a 2nd Founding there might be some possibility of expansion come the Scouring.

 

But branching out is always cool. I look forward to seeing what you do, but I have one suggestion: You absolutely must make mention of their flagship being an assault transport. I'm not sure if the Minotaurs article makes mention of the vessel's name, but I can look around.

[deathspectersgt7]

Thought I seen someone do them some where I was wrong IA:10 says the type of ship but no name.

[Aqui]

Welcome to the Heresy dear Aquilanus, you've just taken the first step down this rabbit hole and what a ride it shall be

Thanks for the welcome!

I don't recall taking a pill of any colour However, as this is a long term project (as it would seem the XIII aren't going to be featured in a HH book for some time), I can take the time to explore the "rabbit hole" in greater detail

When I think of the Inceptors, I imagine them in a pale green. Don't know why, though. How are you planning to do the scheme? Is it going to be dominantly Ultramarines blue, with a pauldron or other markings being picked out in this Chapter's colors, or just the banners? Or are you completely getting rid of the Ultramarines look?

I haven't fully decided on whether the Chapter will be mainly clad in UM blue, or slowly wending their way to an "independent" scheme. Green is a colour I'm okay with, although there are a few UM Chapters in that colour (albeit later ones). Thinking about it, perhaps the scheme could be half blue and an off white, the latter being a point of honour, or mark of remembrance. Oooo! Perhaps it's a mark of shame. Perhaps they were so ashamed by their failure to stop the Word Bearers on Calth that they painted half of their armour to denote the fact, or to preserve the blood of their fallen brethren? Hmm...perhaps painting half of their armour red would be more appropriate for that last bit...White and red? Although that evokes White Scars to me...I'll think on it

In case you still might harbor some interests in doing a Rainbow Warrior Chapter set in the Age of Darkness, I would like to point out that it is established lore that multiple Chapters with the same name, colors and iconography have existed thanks to recycling identities, and could potentially even exist simultaneously. Though it is likely rare, but it allows you to do what you want to do, with either of those Chapters, and not worry about if it gets changes on you. Of course, Inceptors less so, because as a 2nd Founding there might be some possibility of expansion come the Scouring.

I had considered the point that there might be more than one Chapter over the millennia who had the name "Rainbow Warriors", but in the end, I decided to make a clean break and keep them (for me at least) 40K. The point you make about the Inceptors and a possible highlight in subsequent books, is both very valid and something I hadn't considered. Still, I think I'll go with it At worst, it means I have an alternate version of them to GW/FW.

But branching out is always cool. I look forward to seeing what you do, but I have one suggestion: You absolutely must make mention of their flagship being an assault transport. I'm not sure if the Minotaurs article makes mention of the vessel's name, but I can look around.

I'll be sure to do so The Lexicanum entry on the Minotaurs mention their flagship being "Daedelos Krata - Heavy Assault Carrier/Relic-Ship " Might this be it?

'Sarge - I need to get around to getting IA 10 and 11 (that's the Badab War ones?) as well I need to sate the itch to do Lamenters as well!

[Conn Eremon]

What source did Lexicanum use for that ship? I'll check more deeply on it.

[deathspectersgt7]

Daedelos Krata is the Minotaurs fortress Monastery( Relic- Ship ) The Inceptors ship was a Crusade era Assualt Transport.

[Aqui]

What source did Lexicanum use for that ship? I'll check more deeply on it.

IA:10 page 104, but the Inceptors weren't involved, so it's very doubtful it was theirs. - 'Sarge got there first!

Just had a thought on their motivations. The word inception according to dictionary.com means:

noun

1.

beginning; start; commencement.

2.

British.

the act of graduating or earning a university degree, usually a master's or doctor's degree, especially at Cambridge University.

the graduation ceremony; commencement.

3.

(in science fiction) the act of instilling an idea into someone's mind by entering his or her dreams.

The first meaning is a given. The second is pretty useless in this context, unless it was the Inceptors that Guilliman indoctrinated the Codex to first, NOT the Genesis Chapter. Perhaps this even leads to an unease between the two? Or perhaps both Chapters make claim to the "honour" of being the first after the Ultramarines themselves, the truth being unknown or vague? The third, well, perhaps the Chapter is determined to show themselves to be exemplars of the eventual Codex. But the Genesis Chapter amongst others already wears that hat. I was thinking of taking the first definition further, but the more I think on, I think the second idea has some merit. After all, even the Ultras and their successors must have issues between them at some point...

[deathspectersgt7]

They could also be the Company where the Bulk of the Librarians come from( Dream Walkers) Or something close to that or the Company was led by a former Librarian.

[Kol Saresk]

Or the first Successor to be "non-Codex compliant". O_o

[Conn Eremon]

The Codex/Genesis thing has merit, I feel. I think the third definition is in reference to the Inception movie. There is a short story, Something of Engagement?, that talks about the early stages of what will become the Codex. Maybe you can be inspired by it, perhaps link yourself to the Ultramarines forces involved.

 

As for the colors/Calth thing, prior to Calth red was the mark of shame. Calth actually saw the moment where it might have begun to change to be a mark of honor. Since you mentioned white, perhaps have your Chapter bear ash-white markings in remembrance. Blue and white go together well, and you can add a third dominant color to Chapter banners or the like of your choosing to break it up and give your specific Chapter an identity within the Legion. Post-Heresy, maybe they replace the blue with this third color but keep the white, forging their colors as the 2nd Founding Inceptors. Just my thoughts on a cool way to do the colors, while still keeping a dominant look in line with the Legion they are still a part of.

 

As for the ship, it might actually be the Daedelos Krata. The incident with the Inceptors is pre-Badab, and the only other Battle-barges they had were post-Badab. We don't know when the Minotaurs got it, but it is their main flagship, is considered a relic, and is a heavy assault type.

 

Meanwhile, the Inceptors lost their flagship to the Minotaurs, which was from the days of the Great Crusade, where the most ancient of Chapter relics originated, and was an assault type.

 

I think that we could very easily infer that these two ships are one and the same. And while the name is very Minotaursy, it is also very Ultramarinesy. Up to you if you go with it, but I think it would be a cool way to connection with their 40k future.

[Aqui]

The post below was what I was going to put before I realised that Cormac and Kol had posted. Rather than start over, I'll post it and then reply their posts (it'll hurt my head less that way!)

They could also be the Company where the Bulk of the Librarians come from( Dream Walkers) Or something close to that or the Company was led by a former Librarian.

A nice idea, but I wasn't sure whether or not the Ultras kept to the Edict of Nikaea until well after the Second Founding (I'm way behind on reading HH novels etc ). It's an idea I might pursue though

A first idea for their colour scheme:

It's a little too much like the Eagle Warriors and their successors, the Marines Errant, but it's a starting point (and rather rushed I missed a few parts, but the general idea is there )

Or the first Successor to be "non-Codex compliant". O_o

Well, it's another idea that I'm not adverse to having a go at Just want to get the reason(s) why they'd disregard their Father's tome, especially so close to the event that the Codex was written to prevent from happening again, ever.

The Codex/Genesis thing has merit, I feel. I think the third definition is in reference to the Inception movie. There is a short story, Something of Engagement?, that talks about the early stages of what will become the Codex. Maybe you can be inspired by it, perhaps link yourself to the Ultramarines forces involved.

I figured it was, but I doubt I'll see that film, so not so important. The short story sounds interesting though I'll have to get my hands on it soon.

As for the colors/Calth thing, prior to Calth red was the mark of shame. Calth actually saw the moment where it might have begun to change to be a mark of honor. Since you mentioned white, perhaps have your Chapter bear ash-white markings in remembrance. Blue and white go together well, and you can add a third dominant color to Chapter banners or the like of your choosing to break it up and give your specific Chapter an identity within the Legion. Post-Heresy, maybe they replace the blue with this third color but keep the white, forging their colors as the 2nd Founding Inceptors. Just my thoughts on a cool way to do the colors, while still keeping a dominant look in line with the Legion they are still a part of.

As per the post above, I've tried a white/blue scheme. I quite like it, despite not being keen on painting it (and the masochist that I am decided on a non board friendly army that is predomninently white! :banghead: ). However, if I make it a less "clean" white, I could work with that. The idea of honouring Calth in such a way is very cool. Perhaps some of the actual ashes from Calth was mixed in as a reminder? I think that I should start my army with models painted in Ultramarine colours to start, and then work up to having more and more painted in the eventual successor ones.

As for the ship, it might actually be the Daedelos Krata. The incident with the Inceptors is pre-Badab, and the only other Battle-barges they had were post-Badab. We don't know when the Minotaurs got it, but it is their main flagship, is considered a relic, and is a heavy assault type.

Meanwhile, the Inceptors lost their flagship to the Minotaurs, which was from the days of the Great Crusade, where the most ancient of Chapter relics originated, and was an assault type.

I think that we could very easily infer that these two ships are one and the same. And while the name is very Minotaursy, it is also very Ultramarinesy. Up to you if you go with it, but I think it would be a cool way to connection with their 40k future.

Well, there's nothing at all to stop the Minotaurs from renaming the ship, possibly to rub the insult in even further - it's bad enough when someone nicks your stuff, but the effrontery of renaming it thereby erasing it's past history and every deed and honour it ever had, is just taking the . Something that I think they'd do

[Frostmourne]

I sense...much awesome is to come..

[Aqui]

I sense...much awesome is to come..

I hope I can live up to that I think I need to attack the local libraries for as many Heresy books as I'm able (it'll be cheaper and quicker than waiting for me to eventually be able to afford stuff). I'll have to make a likely list later after I've gotten some sleep...

[Frostmourne]

Whats your starter force looking like, or are you not thinking like that and thinking "Whole Force"?

[Aqui]

Whats your starter force looking like, or are you not thinking like that and thinking "Whole Force"?

I don't have any models yet, nor do I know what a "typical" set up for 30K as I don't have any rules Hopefully be able to get at least either the rules or a few models around/after Christmas, but for now, I'm concentrating on background.

In any case, my approach will be the same as it is for 40K - I'll choose the units I like, I'm not so affected by unit performance, although a win now and then is nothing to be sneezed at! This army is more for plunging down into a very rich vein of awesome stuff and seeing what I find (when I say awesome stuff, I mean the Heresy in general and not trying to imply that anything I subsequently come up with is "awesome"...). I don't play 40K much (still haven't got 7th ed yet...), so this will be more about collecting the models I love, but with a view to being able to play if I get in contact with other 30K'ers and being able to dual use some units in 40K.

Okay, that was a long winded explanation....definitely need sleep!

[Conn Eremon]

By Guilliman's order, as the Emperor's only local proxy, the Nikaea Edict was repealed in The Unremembered Empire, which is the other XIII-centric book outside of the Mark of Calth anthology. Both of those I would say are required reads to get a feel for the Legion. The First Heretic, Betrayer and The Battle for the Abyss also have big sections on the Ultramarines, though the first two are focused on the Word Bearers and World Eaters and the third is generally disliked. "Rules of Engagement" is in the Age of Darkness anthology. Those are all that come to mind.

 

I almost said the same thing about the flagship. It's exactly something the Minotaurs would do. But then again, the Ultramarines are heavily greco-roman in theme, so that ship name would not be out of place in a XIII Legion fleet.

[Frostmourne]

I am re-reading The Unremembered Empire now and its such a good read. Properly advise reading that!

[Jareddm]

The split colors 'mark of shame' idea actually has some precedence. The Black Wings chapter took up a similar mark of shame when half of their chapter went renegade and they swore to only return to their original scheme when their fallen brothers had been hunted down.

[Aqui]

The split colors 'mark of shame' idea actually has some precedence. The Black Wings chapter took up a similar mark of shame when half of their chapter went renegade and they swore to only return to their original scheme when their fallen brothers had been hunted down.

Just read up on them. It's still something I'd like to try. There are a few things that I want to go through, so it might not be the "thing" that I end up with

Here's a little something I thought up as a start:

"I saw the pain in his eyes. Not once, when the full extent of his brother Horus' betrayal became evident. Not twice when much later, when his true Brothers, Lord Russ, Lord Vulkan and Lord Dorn refused to capitulate to the idea of breaking the Legions and threatened to pitch the Imperium into war once again. No. I saw pain in his eyes three times and...anger, when he saw for himself the devastation wrought on Calth. That was the day I was truly fearful of my Father." - Augustus Prosepine, First Chapter Master of the Inceptors Chapter.

Also, version 2 of the colour scheme:

[Conn Eremon]

Colors look fine, but I wonder if the blue would look better on the side with the Legion symbol?

[Slips]

Well, if he's going for scouring Era, he could keep the left blue and put the Ultramarines symbol on that shoulder, in small, probably inside the Squad Markings in order to pay homage to the Legion since this isn't too far after the Heresy so the ties might be stronger than they are in 40k. 

 

Also, how will you display company colors? Try maybe the cooling vane on the helmet? Just an idea.

 

By the way, Aquilanus, did you start thinking about a chapter symbol? :p

[Conn Eremon]

Ah, I've been assuming a Heresy era army of an eventual 2nd Founding.

[Slips]

Well, we'd need Aquilanus to clear that up since I just took a shot in the dark with that assumption :p Though with his Paint Scheme Idea, it seems more likely to being a Scouring Force.

[Aqui]

Colors look fine, but I wonder if the blue would look better on the side with the Legion symbol?

I was wondering too The second scheme was just another test. I prefer the first one, mainly due to the point you made above.

Well, if he's going for scouring Era, he could keep the left blue and put the Ultramarines symbol on that shoulder, in small, probably inside the Squad Markings in order to pay homage to the Legion since this isn't too far after the Heresy so the ties might be stronger than they are in 40k.

Also, how will you display company colors? Try maybe the cooling vane on the helmet? Just an idea.

By the way, Aquilanus, did you start thinking about a chapter symbol?

I've been mulling over the symbol and I did have the idea of using the constellation of Ultramar with the Agemo in there somewhere. However, as my GIMP (free program like Photoshop) skills are rather lacking, my attempt was rather poor. Here it is in any case:

I know that Sotha is in the future no longer part of Ultramar (first being the home planet to the Scythes of the Emperor, later being a dead world), but as far as I can tell, during the Crusade and up to the Founding of the Scythes, it was. So I put it in I suppose I could join each planet up in a more interesting pattern, but I haven't got around to it yet. I had considered adding an Alpha into the Agemo/inverse Omega, but the pictures I've seen online are far too Alpha Legion in appearance. Hopefully I'll work out what I want sooner than later.

Edit: I just thought of a symbol that perhaps depicts the assault and eventual devastation of Calth. Not sure how I'd depict that as I'm not good at freehand. I'm game to give it a go if I can make something simple enough

Ah, I've been assuming a Heresy era army of an eventual 2nd Founding.

Well, we'd need Aquilanus to clear that up since I just took a shot in the dark with that assumption Though with his Paint Scheme Idea, it seems more likely to being a Scouring Force.

My intention was to start with Ultramarines proper, with subsequent units starting to peel away and eventually result in what I feel the Inceptors look like (that way the later models can be used in 40K as well as 30K. Must remember to get more magnets...) in 40K. It's rather interesting to work out how a Second Founding Chapter evolves from one in the Legion.

I'm just in the middle of trying to write more about the Inceptors, but I really should read up more on the 30K Ultras first to really get a handle on them.

Thanks for the interest