XIII - How I stopped worrying...Painting Started! ^_^

[Bryan Blaire]

Aquilanus, I think I'd limit the split color to just the head and maybe arm (but not pauldron) for the squads you want to be "mostly Legion" and spread it out from there for the Chapter squads growing more independent. I would also keep the chest aquila an ancient gold tone, to set it off more from the chest and keep the Legion tie visible, possibly the shoulder trim as well.

 

As far as the symbol, have you thought about doing a reversed capital Alpha? An Ahpla? Or an interlocked Ahpla and Agemo?

[Aqui]

Aquilanus, I think I'd limit the split color to just the head and maybe arm (but not pauldron) for the squads you want to be "mostly Legion" and spread it out from there for the Chapter squads growing more independent. I would also keep the chest aquila an ancient gold tone, to set it off more from the chest and keep the Legion tie visible, possibly the shoulder trim as well.

You mean like this?

I quite like it, plus it shows a transition between the XIII and the eventual Inceptors Chapter

As far as the symbol, have you thought about doing a reversed capital Alpha? An Ahpla? Or an interlocked Ahpla and Agemo?

I hadn't I've just tried making an Alpha and Agemo interlinked (as in, the lowercase alpha and upper case Agemo), but either my lack of drawing skill, or just the fact that it just looks wrong has meant that I'll not try too hard to make it work. However, if I get you right, you mean something similar to "Turn A Gundam"'s symbol (or an "A" upside down?). Nice idea, but a little too close to the Genesis Chapters' symbol

I have seen the following symbols/combinations though:

Upper case Alpha/Agemo interlinked

Another variant of the above

both symbols on an open book - Perhaps a nod to the eventual Codex (although it also alludes to the Word Bearers)

I've also considered using the lower case Omega. I checked to see what symbol the actual Omega Marines have and it's an Agemo with a skull in it, so I should be okay with the lowercase version If anything, the symbolism of using the lowercase could be down to the Inceptors ever aspiring to the feats of it's parent (and forever feeling the smaller sibling...or something like that ) It also helps that a lower case Omega isn't too difficult to paint and characters could get a more stylised version

[Conn Eremon]

One of the current Alpha Legion symbols is an omega-alpha chained together. Not sure turning it upside down is one you would like to go for, but it would look pretty.

[Aqui]

One of the current Alpha Legion symbols is an omega-alpha chained together. Not sure turning it upside down is one you would like to go for, but it would look pretty.

I've seen a few pictures where they're attached, but not chained together...

 

Going back to using Calth as a possible symbol: http://weirdthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/skitched-20111222-134913.jpg Perhaps something like this. The planet bathed in shadow to represent its ruin?

[Bryan Blaire]

See, the Genesis Chapter has always looked like a right side up Alpha with a white triangle point down behind it to me, but I guess they do look similar. If I can draw what I mean, I'll see about getting it posted.

 

What about the regular Agemo with a small capital Alpha inside it, but not touching?

 

I like the scheme. I think if you still wanted to do the split helm, that would probably still work also.

[Conn Eremon]

If you go with a Calth-based symbol, what was their symbol before then? Do you use the old symbol for the mostly-blue, then slowly make the Calth symbol dominant as you progress to the 2nd Founding?

 

Alternatively, I suppose the Chapter could be formed in the wake of Calth's destruction. There were survivors that followed Guilliman out, and others as time wore on. Perhaps this Chapter of yours was formed from those survivors whose former Chapters suffered such losses as to be unrecoverable. So their identity begins with Calth burning, and is forged in that furnace. Just a thought.

[Aqui]

See, the Genesis Chapter has always looked like a right side up Alpha with a white triangle point down behind it to me, but I guess they do look similar. If I can draw what I mean, I'll see about getting it posted.

What about the regular Agemo with a small capital Alpha inside it, but not touching?

I like the scheme. I think if you still wanted to do the split helm, that would probably still work also.

I know this is the lower case Alpha, but it was fairly easy to reproduce using GIMP:

If you go with a Calth-based symbol, what was their symbol before then? Do you use the old symbol for the mostly-blue, then slowly make the Calth symbol dominant as you progress to the 2nd Founding?

Alternatively, I suppose the Chapter could be formed in the wake of Calth's destruction. There were survivors that followed Guilliman out, and others as time wore on. Perhaps this Chapter of yours was formed from those survivors whose former Chapters suffered such losses as to be unrecoverable. So their identity begins with Calth burning, and is forged in that furnace. Just a thought.

I didn't know you could read minds! I've been considering the latter point all day! I thought that more than a few Chapters/Companies were served a serious blow and were undermanned to the point that amalgamating the remainder was the only viable choice. From these survivors would eventually come the Inceptors. I've been mulling over the idea that the first Chapter Master would be a Sergeant who was raised to Captain level after Calth to bolster the command structure. I'm not completely sold on it, as there must still have been a number of Captains etc who could become the Inceptors' Chapter Master...

Speaking of Calth, or rather the Mark - I read on Lexicanum today that the "Mark of Calth" is still counting even after 10K years, and won't stop until Logar and every Word Bearer are dead. I was thinking that after their creation, they are tasked specifically, or take it upon themselves to destroy the XVII.

Practical? Or Theoretical?

[Slips]

I think it could give them a cool crusaderish / vengeful vibe especially for an ultramarines successor. To reflect that, down the line maybe after the second founding, have a series of special honors dedicated to how many word bearers the Astartes has killed / plans foiled, etc?

 

As for a sergeant becoming chapter master, the celestial lions had to have this forced upon them when the BT decided that : no they werent going to go extinct they're sons of Dorn and they'll perservere! Thus Halbrehct forced the most senior sergeant to take the oath of a chapter master.

 

So all in all, most lf the ideas here could be inplemented as some to have prescendence while others are just too damn cool!

 

Either way this is shaping up good haha!

 

 

 

 

 

P.s forgive any spelling errors and the like, wrote this on my phone...in bed... >_>

[Aqui]

I think it could give them a cool crusaderish / vengeful vibe especially for an ultramarines successor. To reflect that, down the line maybe after the second founding, have a series of special honors dedicated to how many word bearers the Astartes has killed / plans foiled, etc?

I don't know of many Ultras successors, if any at all, that are of a Crusading mindset (there are probably some, but I can't think of any currently), so I thought it kinda cool to make one. As for Codex adherence, I would like to take them non-adherent, but if they are one of the early successors in the Second Founding, then there would have to be a really good reason why they should decide to go that way...

As for a sergeant becoming chapter master, the celestial lions had to have this forced upon them when the BT decided that : no they werent going to go extinct they're sons of Dorn and they'll perservere! Thus Halbrehct forced the most senior sergeant to take the oath of a chapter master.

So all in all, most lf the ideas here could be inplemented as some to have prescendence while others are just too damn cool!

Either way this is shaping up good haha!

P.s forgive any spelling errors and the like, wrote this on my phone...in bed... >_>

I didn't know the Celestial Lions have had their fluff changed! However, that's off topic (I'll have to read up on that at some point...)

I thought that using a Sergeant who eventually becomes Chapter Master is interesting and not inconceivable, mainly due to the sheer number of losses in both rank and file and within the command cadre. Also, assuming that the Marines who eventually become the Chapter are from various other broken companies and Chapters, perhaps their mindset is rather stubborn and would only take orders from "one of their own", despite the usual decorum afforded to the command structure. Or something like that...

Either way this is shaping up good haha!

Thank you I just wish I could afford the rulebooks etc earlier so I can actually get started on lists and modelling Roll on December...

[Kol Saresk]

Sorry I'm so late on replying to the whole "non-Codex compliant" thing. Took a while to think about and I believe I may have found the answer.

 

I'm sure everyone remembers Aeonid Thiel from Know No Fear, right? How he was being censured for developing practicals against other Astartes?

 

Well when we see him in Censure again, there is a bit where he is covering his armor with different tactics that he was developing while fighting on Calth because that type of warfare was new and everything.

 

So maybe that's how they can do it. They don't have to disregard the Codex in order to be non-Compliant, just have a penchant for tactics and practices that exist outside of its boundaries. Maybe they like to collect identifying icons of the various Word Bearer Chapters they've fought on and since Calth as kill-counts and trophies.

[Slips]

It could be more specific as in only taking the non-chaosy identification marks (since corruption and all that) of Dark Apostles, Champions and Lords only within the Word Bearers, ignoring anything that doesn't come from a son of Lorgar. Maybe have them have a "hunstman" special demi-company or have it as their veteran company, tasked with hunting down and enacting their eternal vengeance upon the WB's? Though...that starts to sound rather like other things we've read/heard about, I think it might give them their non-compliancy bit since they'd be dedicated Word Bearer hunters; ranging far and wide throughout the galaxy ever stalking their hated foes.

 

 

Though I think Kol's idea is a bit more coherent than mine.

[Aqui]

Sorry I'm so late on replying to the whole "non-Codex compliant" thing. Took a while to think about and I believe I may have found the answer.

I'm sure everyone remembers Aeonid Thiel from Know No Fear, right? How he was being censured for developing practicals against other Astartes?

Well when we see him in Censure again, there is a bit where he is covering his armor with different tactics that he was developing while fighting on Calth because that type of warfare was new and everything.

I greatly appreciate the post Kol

Is the highlighted part in KnF as well? I remember Thiel (he's the Sergeant who figures that if he's in deep then practicing with Guillimans' personal collection isn't going to make it much worse?), but I didn't know he gets censured twice...If it's in Mark of Calth, I'll have to try to get a hold of that book (amongst others) as soon as possible

So maybe that's how they can do it. They don't have to disregard the Codex in order to be non-Compliant, just have a penchant for tactics and practices that exist outside of its boundaries. Maybe they like to collect identifying icons of the various Word Bearer Chapters they've fought on and since Calth as kill-counts and trophies.

I especially like this idea. If not for the fact that it lends a grim sense of duty to the Chapter, it also lends itself to converting and kitbashing etc I think that perhaps the head or helm of the leader of each Word Bearer Chapter or warband should be taken back to the Inceptors' flagship to be proffered to the Chapter Master and the Librarians/Chaplains, to full ensure that that Warband/Chapter has indeed been wiped out. Thus, the tally is adjusted accordingly. I'll have to think of a cool name for the list.

Nice ideas Kol, thanks!

It could be more specific as in only taking the non-chaosy identification marks (since corruption and all that) of Dark Apostles, Champions and Lords only within the Word Bearers, ignoring anything that doesn't come from a son of Lorgar. Maybe have them have a "hunstman" special demi-company or have it as their veteran company, tasked with hunting down and enacting their eternal vengeance upon the WB's? Though...that starts to sound rather like other things we've read/heard about, I think it might give them their non-compliancy bit since they'd be dedicated Word Bearer hunters; ranging far and wide throughout the galaxy ever stalking their hated foes.

Though I think Kol's idea is a bit more coherent than mine.

I suppose a group that acts outside the typical Chapter organisation could work (Tyranid Veterans anyone?) Perhaps that aspect of them alienates them from other successors, as their need to fulfil a vow 10K years old gets in the way of more current duties, resulting in them leaving a battlefield to chase after a rumour of Word Bearer activity.

[marine7312000]

I like the idea of a former line officer taking command of a chapter. Since the chapter will be a second founding perhaps initially they were codex-compliant but have, over time, taken an attitude of using whatever works, within reason. I'm not suggesting they start using daemon weapons against the Word Bearers but instead, they adopt tactics from other chapters that they come into contact with over the years. So instead of looking at a situation and saying what does the codex say to do, they look at it and compare it to things they've seen other chapters engage using different tactics and use what works best.

[Aqui]

I like the idea of a former line officer taking command of a chapter. Since the chapter will be a second founding perhaps initially they were codex-compliant but have, over time, taken an attitude of using whatever works, within reason. I'm not suggesting they start using daemon weapons against the Word Bearers but instead, they adopt tactics from other chapters that they come into contact with over the years. So instead of looking at a situation and saying what does the codex say to do, they look at it and compare it to things they've seen other chapters engage using different tactics and use what works best.

If I do take them into non-compliance, this is most likely what I'd do. No Daemon weapons, but exposure to other Chapters certainly would have an effect. But that's more for the Chapter when it's nearer 40K than 30K

[Kol Saresk]

No, in KNF he was simply being censured for creating theoreticals(my bad, they weren't practicals yet). In Censure(which can be found as either an audio or an ebook; is not any anthology to date as far as I am aware), he returned to Calth and is writing down every tactic he uses that works onto his armor. For example, in the beginning we see two cultists sniping an Ultramarine. Then before they can do anything "another" Ultramarine comes out of nowhere and kills them. Then Thiel writes down on his armour how using the corpses of fellow Ultramarines works great for distracting enemy snipers who don't realize what they're shooting is already dead. More than likely that is a tactic that will never make it into the Codex as it would strike me as being distasteful to someone as Guilliman.

[Aqui]

No, in KNF he was simply being censured for creating theoreticals(my bad, they weren't practicals yet). In Censure(which can be found as either an audio or an ebook; is not any anthology to date as far as I am aware), he returned to Calth and is writing down every tactic he uses that works onto his armor. For example, in the beginning we see two cultists sniping an Ultramarine. Then before they can do anything "another" Ultramarine comes out of nowhere and kills them. Then Thiel writes down on his armour how using the corpses of fellow Ultramarines works great for distracting enemy snipers who don't realize what they're shooting is already dead. More than likely that is a tactic that will never make it into the Codex as it would strike me as being distasteful to someone as Guilliman.

I've bookmarked four BL items (most likely will get them all as ebooks - Mark of Calth, Censure, Unremembered Empire and Betrayer), so hopefully I'll get a much better understanding of events around "this" time

Thanks for the welcome and all of the replies folks! I really feel like I'm getting somewhere!

[Slips]

You could say this the....Inception... of a chapter!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o

[Aqui]

You could say this the....Inception... of a chapter!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o

Beat ya to it!

As for the Chapter symbol, I want something that invokes their name (but is relatively easy to paint or make a decal for). Searching for something suitable has brought no results so far, but this project is early onin it's...okay, no jokes!

[Slips]

ARGH! oh well...

[Aqui]

I've thought some more on this project, mainly as I haven't any 30K era models. I've stripped some 40K era models for the task of hammering out the colour scheme, but I'll be painting them later on within the next week or so.

Anyway, here are some musings on what I want to explore:

First Chapter Master is a former Sergeant who was selected to lead a group of Ultramarines who are survivors of destroyed Legion Chapters. The group has no formal ties save that many are survivors of Calth and other notable battles before the Legion makes their way to Terra.

The Chapter is rumoured to be the first (or one of the first) Chapter(s) to take the Codex as their formal doctrine, mainly as the Marines had taken to completely unorthodox methods of fighting. Guilliman himself had instructed the Chapter on the contents, feeling that this new Chapter above others needed a measured hand and be an example to others.

The Chapter, because of their collective pasts, have a burning hatred of the XVII. So much so, that they have taken it upon themselves to actively hunt for them, record every Warbands' defeat in a ledger (name yet to be decided), vowing to never rest, never falter until the entire XVII is destroyed, including their (now Daemon) Primarch.

The Chapter, at its infancy took to painting the right arm (possibly the helm) white to permanently seal the dust, detritus etc of Calth to their armour as a dedication to those who fell. Eventually, the entire right side of the armour (save the helm) is white/light bone colour.

The Chapter is Codex adherent, but have taken to implementing tactics observed by other Chapters. This and their belief that they were the first Chapter to follow Guilliman's tome has left relations with other Ultramarine successors rather frosty to say the least. Relations with the parent Chapter are generally cordial.

The Chapters symbol is the Agemo with an Ahpla (lower case Alpha) inside it (see my sig)

I realise that much of the above is really more 40K based, but I feel if I explore the "end" or "current" aspects, then it's easier to work out their "beginnings"

[Kor'Vesh]

So I've just been reading through and enjoying this thread - I realise I'm very late to the party, but I had an idea on a possible background angle for this chapter.

 

Tieing in with your link to Calth, hatred of the word bearers, the notion of planting ideas, and the pale alternate armour colour...

 

... What if the Inceptors were a chapter founded on the principal of propagating the imperial truth in the scouring era - their name would signify their aim of placing this idea on the worlds they conquer. The could see themselves as fulfilling the original mission of the word bearers, or imperial heralds, and loathe them for their fall and desecration of ultramar. You could replace your 'dirty white' with a pale grey, like the original world bearers colour, and have a crusading like theme - essentially questing to crush the word bearers and their influence on the Galaxy.

 

What is also cool with this theme is that their ideology - propagating the emperor's imperial truth - would put them at increasing odd with the imperium with the rise of the imperial cult post-heresy. It could be pretty fun to work with, especially with a subsequent 40k compatible army.

 

Obv. I'm a bit late with this, and it might be nonsense. But I thought I'd put the idea out there!

 

Good luck with the project .

[Slips]

Y'know, seeing the lower case Alpha inside the Agemo made me think about something.

 

Since "Alpharius" is the one who put Guilliman in his current predicament, what if the Inceptors Veterans/Specialists were also Alpha Legion Hunters? Trying to enact vengeance upon the Hydra spawn that so wounded their Primarch?

 

Though would mostly be a Scouring thing, I think...

[Aqui]

Y'know, seeing the lower case Alpha inside the Agemo made me think about something.

Since "Alpharius" is the one who put Guilliman in his current predicament, what if the Inceptors Veterans/Specialists were also Alpha Legion Hunters? Trying to enact vengeance upon the Hydra spawn that so wounded their Primarch?

Though would mostly be a Scouring thing, I think...

I didn't know that Alpharius had any dealings with the XIII overt or otherwise. I'll have to look into it I'm still looking into the Inceptors having a "seek and destroy" Crusade against the XVII to ultimately end the Mark of Calth (which I'm lead to believe is still counting in the 40th Millennium)

[Grotsmasha]

Colors look fine, but I wonder if the blue would look better on the side with the Legion symbol?

I was wondering too The second scheme was just another test. I prefer the first one, mainly due to the point you made above.

I actually prefer the second scheme with one alteration. Rather than alternating trim/pad colour, just have solids. So, Blue on the legion side, and white on the other.

Cheers,

Jono

[Aqui]

Colors look fine, but I wonder if the blue would look better on the side with the Legion symbol?

I was wondering too The second scheme was just another test. I prefer the first one, mainly due to the point you made above.

I actually prefer the second scheme with one alteration. Rather than alternating trim/pad colour, just have solids. So, Blue on the legion side, and white on the other.

Cheers,

Jono

Having looked at it again, I'm now torn as to which to go for, unless I compromise and have one or the other schemes used by the First Company to denote their status. I'll have to think more on it...