++ Iron Within, Iron Without An Iron Warriors Community ++

[Irate Khornate]

 

 

 

 

On Obliterators:

 

Terminator Lord w/Daemonsmith and Spitespitter

3x 3 Slaanesh Oblits.

 

All Oblits benefit from Daemonsmith when they drop in, All reroll 1's with exploding 6's for the Oblits. Lord uses Spitespitter to hose down some Infantry/Primaris.

 

One squad can use Rampant Technovirus, another can use Vets, and the third can use Tank Hunters to target a vehicle.

 

Any one of them can use Endless Cacophony to shoot again as needed.

 

It looks like multiple squads might be more worth it now.

Matched play? That goes just over the 50% points limit in a 2k game for reserves.

Wow.....just double-checked the math and yeah, you're right. Over 1000. Would have to drop 1 unit, then.

It's all good, I've actually tested a few lists where I ran your build with two units in place of three with moderate success. Best one was used in conjunction with Monster Mash using 3x Lords Discordant with baleflamer and 3x Maulerfiends with tendrils.

[nanosquid]

I just want to point out a combo that I'm consistently shocked isn't thrown around more. The Dark Apostle prayer "Illusory Supplication" provides units around it with a 5++, meaning that with the mark of Tzeench, Weaver of Fates will buff that to a 4++. So, my blob of 30 cultists? Yeah, they're going to go ahead and ignore 50% of the shots you pump into them, and the Obliterators behind them are now untargetable.

 

This costs 348pts but is an absolutely impenetrable wall. Even if you pass on Cold and Bitter for some of the new traits your apostle is giving out leadership 9 along with invuln saves because he's just that generous. My opponent in our test game playing space wolves had no answer for the sheer amount of meat blocking his way to the Oblits, who were smashing out a venerable dreadnought per turn. Sure it's CP hungry but I can save some on Endless Cacophony since I know they're still going to be there next turn.

 

By the way, my cultists are wearing red and black, and I'm working on a conversion for a certain Iron Warrior with an Iron Hand...

[DkMiBuch]

I just want to point out a combo that I'm consistently shocked isn't thrown around more. The Dark Apostle prayer "Illusory Supplication" provides units around it with a 5++, meaning that with the mark of Tzeench, Weaver of Fates will buff that to a 4++. So, my blob of 30 cultists? Yeah, they're going to go ahead and ignore 50% of the shots you pump into them, and the Obliterators behind them are now untargetable.

 

This costs 348pts but is an absolutely impenetrable wall. Even if you pass on Cold and Bitter for some of the new traits your apostle is giving out leadership 9 along with invuln saves because he's just that generous. My opponent in our test game playing space wolves had no answer for the sheer amount of meat blocking his way to the Oblits, who were smashing out a venerable dreadnought per turn. Sure it's CP hungry but I can save some on Endless Cacophony since I know they're still going to be there next turn.

 

By the way, my cultists are wearing red and black, and I'm working on a conversion for a certain Iron Warrior with an Iron Hand...

 

Throw in a second Dark Apostle with Benediction of Darkness, and those Cultists will get a -1 to hit on top!

[Iron_Within]

Alternatively ignore the tzeentch thing and stick a nurgle sorcerer in for another -1 totalling -2, which I suspect would be more efficient

[nanosquid]

Alternatively ignore the tzeentch thing and stick a nurgle sorcerer in for another -1 totalling -2, which I suspect would be more efficient

Maybe, but there are way more ways to ignore or cancel out hit penalties than there are ways to cut through invulns.

[DkMiBuch]

 

Alternatively ignore the tzeentch thing and stick a nurgle sorcerer in for another -1 totalling -2, which I suspect would be more efficient

Maybe, but there are way more ways to ignore or cancel out hit penalties than there are ways to cut through invulns.

 

 

 I ran some simulations, and found that 100 bolter shots vs Cultists with:

1.  Benediction of Darkness, Illusory Supplication and Miasma of Pestilence kills 14.81 models

2.  Benediction of Darkness, iIllusory Supplication and Weaver of Fates kills 16.67 models

3.  Benediction of Darkness, iIllusory Supplication and Delightful Agonies kills 14.82 models

 

Sure, there are definitely ways to ignore hit modifiers. Chaos Knight with Helm of Warpsight comes to mind.

Should factor that in as well.

 

Also, as soon as weapons start having more than damage 1, Delightful Agonies falls off a cliff.

[Indefragable]

With Mark of snuggle* you can toss Grandfather’s Blessing on the cultist bomb to bring <drum roll> a single cultist back for 2CP. Probably the single worst use of CP in he game, but hey, it’s an option and just maybe it gives you that extra model you need to outnumber a foe and grab a game winning objective. 
 

If nothing else you just made a cultist’s day.

 

 

 

 

*auto-correct changed “Nurgle” to this...too good not to keep

[Closet Skeleton]

I just want to point out a combo that I'm consistently shocked isn't thrown around more. The Dark Apostle prayer "Illusory Supplication" provides units around it with a 5++, meaning that with the mark of Tzeench, Weaver of Fates will buff that to a 4++. So, my blob of 30 cultists?

 

Its models within 6" for illusory supplication, so your dark apostle has to be right in the middle of the blob.

[Iron_Within]

 

I just want to point out a combo that I'm consistently shocked isn't thrown around more. The Dark Apostle prayer "Illusory Supplication" provides units around it with a 5++, meaning that with the mark of Tzeench, Weaver of Fates will buff that to a 4++. So, my blob of 30 cultists?

 

Its models within 6" for illusory supplication, so your dark apostle has to be right in the middle of the blob.

 

Argh dam I think we all missed that. No wonder nobody takes it!

I think Benediction of Darkness+Miasma of Pestilence wins it then.

[Wayniac]

I still dislike cultists, but part of that is I don't like the models and don't want to convert my own (although the "militia" looking cultists with the autoguns are okay). But I'm interesting in a few ideas just off the top of my head:

 

1) The aforementioned Discolord with the WLT that lets you ignore heavy weapon penalties and a bunch of daemon engines. Forgefiends, Venomcrawlers, even the Defiler suddenly become pretty good. The drawback is that the Discolord is pretty easy to kill.

 

2) Havocs with a cheapo Lord with the WLT that lets you re-roll 1s to wound, maybe with the Stargate for a 5++ save.

 

3) Lord with the ignore heavy penalties WLT and a bunch of 5-man heavy weapon CSM squads (you would have to do sort of a star arrangement). Say Reaper Chaincannons in front (I advocate Chaincannons on CSM squads because they have good synergy with bolters) and Heavy Bolters behind (reason being the Heavy Bolter has the second most shots, and with a longer range they now provide covering fire for the Chaincannon squads)

 

4) Obliterators with a blob of cultists in front of them, using the stratagem so they can't be targeted.

 

I'm noticing the biggest issue is there are a lot of good WLTs, and no way to be able to take more than one of the Legion ones (IIRC Field Commander is only the specialist detachment's WLT). So you really have to pick one of the styles and build around it. If only we had a way to take multiple WLTs then you could do a nice bit of threat saturation with a few of these options.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Wayniac

[nanosquid]

 

I just want to point out a combo that I'm consistently shocked isn't thrown around more. The Dark Apostle prayer "Illusory Supplication" provides units around it with a 5++, meaning that with the mark of Tzeench, Weaver of Fates will buff that to a 4++. So, my blob of 30 cultists?

 

 

 

Its models within 6" for illusory supplication, so your dark apostle has to be right in the middle of the blob.

Oof.

[Heliomanes]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but can the Discolord take the Insidium relic? +1T, W and S would do a lot for him, especially since his weapons go by his base S. So now he'd go up to S10 on the charge. The Tank Hunters strat could also really help him take down a knight, if you had to use your daemonforge on something else - like another discolord?

Going by 1d4chan's write up of the rules, so I'm not sure if I got the wording right.

[MegaVolt87]

I still dislike cultists, but part of that is I don't like the models and don't want to convert my own (although the "militia" looking cultists with the autoguns are okay). But I'm interesting in a few ideas just off the top of my head:

 

1) The aforementioned Discolord with the WLT that lets you ignore heavy weapon penalties and a bunch of daemon engines. Forgefiends, Venomcrawlers, even the Defiler suddenly become pretty good. The drawback is that the Discolord is pretty easy to kill.

 

2) Havocs with a cheapo Lord with the WLT that lets you re-roll 1s to wound, maybe with the Stargate for a 5++ save.

 

3) Lord with the ignore heavy penalties WLT and a bunch of 5-man heavy weapon CSM squads (you would have to do sort of a star arrangement). Say Reaper Chaincannons in front (I advocate Chaincannons on CSM squads because they have good synergy with bolters) and Heavy Bolters behind (reason being the Heavy Bolter has the second most shots, and with a longer range they now provide covering fire for the Chaincannon squads)

 

4) Obliterators with a blob of cultists in front of them, using the stratagem so they can't be targeted.

 

I'm noticing the biggest issue is there are a lot of good WLTs, and no way to be able to take more than one of the Legion ones (IIRC Field Commander is only the specialist detachment's WLT). So you really have to pick one of the styles and build around it. If only we had a way to take multiple WLTs then you could do a nice bit of threat saturation with a few of these options.

 

Move and fire havocs are a trap. You would be better off with the autocannons over the heavy bolters on havocs for dmg. Double rotor CSM's (x5 w/ 1 rotor x2 or x10 w/2rotor) in rhino's is arguably our best rhino loadout for basic CSM's. Specials spam from chosen I would much prefer over oblits. 

[nanosquid]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but can the Discolord take the Insidium relic? +1T, W and S would do a lot for him, especially since his weapons go by his base S. So now he'd go up to S10 on the charge. The Tank Hunters strat could also really help him take down a knight, if you had to use your daemonforge on something else - like another discolord?

 

Going by 1d4chan's write up of the rules, so I'm not sure if I got the wording right.

 

He is a character, so yes. The Daemon keyword is added if they don't have it already; that doesn't mean you can't give it to one that already does have it.

[Iron_Within]

So I played my first game with iron warriors against the death guard.

So.... They're shooty, they're also *very* CP intensive, you have to choose carefully.

Cannon fodder is a more skilled strat than I first thought as it occurs at the start of the opposing shooting phase. However placing miasma of pestilence and benediction of darkness on the Cultists to make them -2 to hit is hilarious and basically makes them unkillable.

 

+1 to hit, votlw, siege master, methodical annihilation and endless cacophony on Lascannon havoc's=1 dead mortar tank thingy and one on down to 4 wounds even with mediocre rolling.

I think obliterators are better than havoc's now. I think obliterators with Daemon Smith will be brutal.

Vaguely hopeful. But it was sail a fight

[Guzzlrr]

I had a few battles pre CA points drop. Land raiders seem decent with Methodical annihilation and with a warlord with siege master seems to be interesting although cults with -2 to hit and Cannon Fodder sounds :cussing brilliant

[Iron_Within]

I think one of the big takeaways I'd say for us is you need double Battalion if you squeeze it in, which in anything between 1700 to 2k shouldn't really be a problem. I would always take 1 blob of 30 Cultists if you can, I actually found their nerfs they've received a benefit; they're just not enough of a threat to direct serious firepower towards if you've received a volley from the Iron Warriors themselves but they remain a constant nuisance, my opponent never killed more than 4 of them as he was too busy trying to flame the Havocs.

 

A CSM squad with a Lascannon seems an "ok" to mediocre backfield camper, but it's 80 points and I'm not sure it's that great, I think I prefer more mobile marine units if they're marines, personally I would leave the backfield camping to the Cultists. I personally think I still prefer a Helbrute with Twin Lascannon and fist for something to suggest not DS into the backfield.

I've found that a squad of Havocs with Chaincannons and a unit of 5 Marines in one Rhino to be a scary proposition for some, the Marines jumped out first to block a charge on the Rhino with the Havocs (and claim an objective) and the Havocs jumped out next turn suddenly supported by DS Terminators, a Terminator Lord and 3 Obliterators.

Oh the Insidium Relic is fun on a Terminator Lord with the right load out as he's a baby Daemon Prince. Load up with an appropriate weapon (probs Thunder hammer, though, TBH I'm not sold with the sheer cost of them at 40 pts)

 

One thing I would say, I'm agonising over which is better, but I'm leaning towards Obliterators being better than Havocs (save Chaincannons).

Point for Point I think Lascannon Havocs are better at killing tanks than Obliterators (assuming but have buffs), but Havocs are squishier by far.

Chaincannon Havocs are insane against most things with the right buffs, but are still squishy and without the CP are "okay" against tougher targets.

[Kythnos]

Regarding the Thunderhammer, afaik that is not available for Terminator models.

[Eldorien]

So I played my first game with iron warriors against the death guard.

So.... They're shooty, they're also *very* CP intensive, you have to choose carefully.

Cannon fodder is a more skilled strat than I first thought as it occurs at the start of the opposing shooting phase. However placing miasma of pestilence and benediction of darkness on the Cultists to make them -2 to hit is hilarious and basically makes them unkillable.

 

+1 to hit, votlw, siege master, methodical annihilation and endless cacophony on Lascannon havoc's=1 dead mortar tank thingy and one on down to 4 wounds even with mediocre rolling.

I think obliterators are better than havoc's now. I think obliterators with Daemon Smith will be brutal.

Vaguely hopeful. But it was sail a fight

I was thinking on a big blob of cultists of slaneesh with Illusory Suplication and Delightfull Agonies instead of Benediction of Darkness and Miasma of Pestilence...

 

What do you guys think is more resilence? Even you start the game or go second...

 

I think that slaneesh combo is better because you can make your Obliterators and Havocs more resilence with Delightfull Agonies...yes, Illusory Suplication is useless on Oblits, but not in the rest of the army such Havocs, Hellbrutes or even Chaos Space Marines.

[MegaVolt87]

It would be better to take a nocto crown for 80pts, then take benediction of darkness on the DA to get the 5++ and make the cultists -1 to hit. Or could take deredeo dread for 5++ bubble, then make the deredeo -1 to hit instead. 

[Eldorien]

It would be better to take a nocto crown for 80pts, then take benediction of darkness on the DA to get the 5++ and make the cultists -1 to hit. Or could take deredeo dread for 5++ bubble, then make the deredeo -1 to hit instead.

Not enough points or money for Noctilith. Points by points and same units but different skills or marks (Illusory Suplication and Delightfull Agonies vs Benediction of Darkness and Miasma of Pestilence).

 

I think both are viable but as I said, you want Oblits and Havocs with Mark Of Slaneesh for Endless Cacophony, so I think the Slaneesh combo is better in overall all circunstances. Once the cultists are dead and you dont have Nurgle units, you wont be able to cast Miasma of Pestilence on any unit...just IMHO

[MegaVolt87]

 

It would be better to take a nocto crown for 80pts, then take benediction of darkness on the DA to get the 5++ and make the cultists -1 to hit. Or could take deredeo dread for 5++ bubble, then make the deredeo -1 to hit instead.

Not enough points or money for Noctilith. Points by points and same units but different skills or marks (Illusory Suplication and Delightfull Agonies vs Benediction of Darkness and Miasma of Pestilence).

 

I think both are viable but as I said, you want Oblits and Havocs with Mark Of Slaneesh for Endless Cacophony, so I think the Slaneesh combo is better in overall all circunstances. Once the cultists are dead and you dont have Nurgle units, you wont be able to cast Miasma of Pestilence on any unit...just IMHO

 

 

All good, was just throwing other possibilities out there. I converted a DA with seigebreaker mace, seemed the right time now to add a DA to my IW collection. 

[Iron_Within]

It would be better to take a nocto crown for 80pts, then take benediction of darkness on the DA to get the 5++ and make the cultists -1 to hit. Or could take deredeo dread for 5++ bubble, then make the deredeo -1 to hit instead.

All I heard was something about actually taking buildings and my brain went "FORTIFY THIS POSITION! IRON WITHIN! IRON WITHOUT!"

I mean I have not much of an idea what the crown does....

Edited December 10, 2019 by Iron_Within

[Iron Father Ferrum]

It's good for a gunline army, I think. It has two auras: one that provides a 5++ to all Chaos models wholly within, and another that 1. Allows Chaos psykers to reroll failed psychic tests and 2. Makes non-Chaos psykers Perils on any double. The second sure grows from 6" to 12" over the first three turns.

 

The downside is that when destroyed, it can explode for d6 mortal wounds within 6".

[Dr_Ruminahui]

That's almost it, IFF.  It does have 2 auras:

 

1.  Gives all chaos units wholly within 6" a 5++ save, and can reroll psychic tests for chaos psychers within 6".  Both grow to 9" on turn 2 and 12" on turn 3.

2.  All non-chaos psychers within 24" perils on any double, not just double 1s and 6s.

 

It also has a 6" D6 pistol that is S 7 AP -2.  And yes, when destroyed, on a 6 it explodes as described by IFF.

 

Interesting to note, all the above rules don't care about whether the model/unit is friendly or not, only if it has the chaos keyword.  So, if playing against another chaos player, it may well be buffing both your psychers and giving both your units invulnerable saves - though, your opponent obviously wouldn't get the benefits unless he moves within the auras range.