++ Iron Within, Iron Without An Iron Warriors Community ++

[BrainFireBob]

Anyone try an Insidium Master of Possession yet? Intrigued by it

[MegaVolt87]

Buffing the enemy CSM army is pretty metal, that actually don't bother me.

[Eldorien]

Anyone try an Insidium Master of Possession yet? Intrigued by it

Why give it to a MoP when you can give it to a Daemon Prince or Lord Discordant?

 

;)

[BrainFireBob]

Eh, it lets him benefit from his own aura powers

[Guzzlrr]

Controversial opinion I don't like insidium on the already high T Characters. Especially when both already have a :cuss tonne of attacks best on T4 characters but that's just me.

 

What do you guys think of the demon weapons I quite like the talons

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I'm a fan of the Talons, the Fist, and the Tzeentch Sword, actually. There are probably some niche builds with the other two.

[Iron_Within]

I want to give a terminator lord the insidium but dunno what weapons would be best... Suggestions?

[MegaVolt87]

I want to give a terminator lord the insidium but dunno what weapons would be best... Suggestions?

 

I like the exo for the wound re-gen though. Mine has combi plasma and power axe, although I really would like to do chainfist and combi melta, but its spendy. I might put insidium on warpsmith to up his tank so he can rep my tanks longer. 

[MegaVolt87]

Sell me on Vindicators for 8th ed IW's. Anyone having success with them? 

[El_Dicko]

Sell me on Vindicators for 8th ed IW's. Anyone having success with them?

I ran two the other day against Imperial Fists, with a Warpsmith behind them. It was a close game and they did pretty well. Would have splattered the captain with them if I hadn’t been rolling pretty much constant ones. For sure it’s not worth investing in three for the strat especially since we can’t squadron them.

[The Iron Augur]

I've only been able to play a couple of games with my two Vindicators but they have been pretty fun. Methodical Annihilation, Unholy Vigor and Tank Hunters can help them do some work. They're also pretty handy as mobile LoS blockers for chain cannon havocs.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

 

[sNIP}. For sure it’s not worth investing in three for the strat especially since we can’t squadron them.

 

 

Why does squadronning them matter?  In 8th ed, one is generally better off with models taking more slots, not less, as that is how we get CPs and the "HQ tax" generally isn't too bad as HQ units are generally useful.  Now, if you were using the old missions with the player who finishes deploying first goes first (provided the other player doesn't seize the initiative), that's a big reason to want to be a squadron - but I had that basically no one (except my friends, as we have one player who is a "the letter of the rules" kind of guy) played that way anymore.

 

That said, I think Vindicators are potentially playable now that they are just a straight D6 shots - but are way too random for most people's tastes.  A couple of rounds of rolling 1s and 2s for their shots and they look like a whole lot of wasted points.  Haven't played one, though, so take that with a grain of salt.  I know Prot is thinking of fielding them in his Thousand Suns army, but I don't know if he has done so yet - he plays a ton of games, so if he has he'd be a good one to get feedback from.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Dr_Ruminahui

[MegaVolt87]

I did the math for the FW vindi's, if you are only needing two the GW to FW price difference isn't as big a deal. So for two FW ones you could get three from GW, but if you won't use three in an army then it won't matter. ($AUD prices). Hmmmmm. 

[El_Dicko]

 

 

 

[sNIP}. For sure it’s not worth investing in three for the strat especially since we can’t squadron them.

Why does squadronning them matter? In 8th ed, one is generally better off with models taking more slots, not less, as that is how we get CPs and the "HQ tax" generally isn't too bad as HQ units are generally useful. Now, if you were using the old missions with the player who finishes deploying first goes first (provided the other player doesn't seize the initiative), that's a big reason to want to be a squadron - but I had that basically no one (except my friends, as we have one player who is a "the letter of the rules" kind of guy) played that way anymore.

 

That said, I think Vindicators are potentially playable now that they are just a straight D6 shots - but are way too random for most people's tastes. A couple of rounds of rolling 1s and 2s for their shots and they look like a whole lot of wasted points. Haven't played one, though, so take that with a grain of salt. I know Prot is thinking of fielding them in his Thousand Suns army, but I don't know if he has done so yet - he plays a ton of games, so if he has he'd be a good one to get feedback from.

Fair point but when I’m already taking multiple detachments(such as a battalion of Red Corsairs) they are competing with havocs and Obliterators for space even in a vanguard.

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

Did any of y'all feel bad for Perturabo during the Siege of Terra when it talks about how he realizes he's the only sane traitor primarch left? I did.

[Iron_Within]

Did any of y'all feel bad for Perturabo during the Siege of Terra when it talks about how he realizes he's the only sane traitor primarch left? I did.

 

He's the only one of the Primarchs present still fighting the war that started at Istvaan. The Daemon Primarchs are not, neither is Horus anymore really as he is falling into being the "sacrifice".

This will mean that the Perturabo is going to get his time to shine. He's been waiting for years for the moment to breach the walls of Terra and in the fluff the Iron Warriors claimed they were the first to do it.

I think they will. But ofc,as is the way with the Iron Warriors and Perturabo, they will be betrayed.

I think that's the point Perturabo will fall to despair once and for all. 

[MegaVolt87]

 

Did any of y'all feel bad for Perturabo during the Siege of Terra when it talks about how he realizes he's the only sane traitor primarch left? I did.

 

He's the only one of the Primarchs present still fighting the war that started at Istvaan. The Daemon Primarchs are not, neither is Horus anymore really as he is falling into being the "sacrifice".

This will mean that the Perturabo is going to get his time to shine. He's been waiting for years for the moment to breach the walls of Terra and in the fluff the Iron Warriors claimed they were the first to do it.

I think they will. But ofc,as is the way with the Iron Warriors and Perturabo, they will be betrayed.

I think that's the point Perturabo will fall to despair once and for all. 

 

Yeah I think it will involve WE, they probably go first through the breach IW's made after butchering the IW vanguard units or something. 

[Iron_Within]

It would be typically callous of the iw and Perturabo to be the first to breach the walls and then let the WE and Angron die trying to be the first to get through.

[MegaVolt87]

It would be typically callous of the iw and Perturabo to be the first to breach the walls and then let the WE and Angron die trying to be the first to get through.

Strongly disagree. That would be one meat grinder they would actually want to do. WE taking that away would be like the stolen glory when IW were loyalists. It would add more to the buildup of IW in the same frustrations that caused them to rebel with Horus. Of course, the supporting ordinance fire could always land on the WE's, causing the whole thing to not work out.

[Iron_Within]

 

It would be typically callous of the iw and Perturabo to be the first to breach the walls and then let the WE and Angron die trying to be the first to get through.

Strongly disagree. That would be one meat grinder they would actually want to do. WE taking that away would be like the stolen glory when IW were loyalists. It would add more to the buildup of IW in the same frustrations that caused them to rebel with Horus. Of course, the supporting ordinance fire could always land on the WE's, causing the whole thing to not work out.

 

I can see your point but it would depend IMO on Perturabo's outlook. 

Perturabo uses warriors he's most displeased with in his forlorn hope attacks, ones he does not want (nor expect) to see again. I cannot for the life of me remember which novel it's from but it is shown that he's done this.

If Perturabo viewed this as a crucial moment where the wall will be taken (but with high casualties) then yeah I absolutely I can see him being infuriated by Angron stealing his thunder.

Similarly, if Angron and the WE Leeroy Jenkins the assault mucking it up then Perturabo would be apoplectic with rage.

OTOH. Perturabo is the one that subdued Angron and brought him to heel, he knows how blood mad the WE and Angron are, there is an equally weighted argument that Perturabo would have with this knowledge planned around it, throwing the WE an Angron into the very worst of things conserving his troops (no doubt with the Iron Warriors laughing about it's time the other legions got a dose of their medicine they've been having to take for 2 centuries). This would mean it's Perturabo's plan and execution, exploiting the WE and Angron (no doubt Khârn dying (for the first time) as he's doomed to do at the walls).

I mean... Perturabo is going to be angry and bitter about something he always is, it's his ground state of being! Perhaps the WE and Angron survive far more than they should do, carving a swathe through the defenders. Perhaps the Imperial Fists hold out longer than Perturabo envisions and he blames the minute errors of his own soldiers as the cause. Perturabo is ever a perfectionist and he knows nothing is perfect in reality (unlike Fulgrim who thinks he's perfect) which causes him constant disappointment and bitterness.

I mean, remember in Angel Exerminatus where he builds his Amphitheatre at Fulgrims request and for a moment he's happy before it's "ruined" by others. There is only a certain level of "not that bitter" Perturabo can attain and it's not high.

[Indefragable]

 

 

It would be typically callous of the iw and Perturabo to be the first to breach the walls and then let the WE and Angron die trying to be the first to get through.

Strongly disagree. That would be one meat grinder they would actually want to do. WE taking that away would be like the stolen glory when IW were loyalists. It would add more to the buildup of IW in the same frustrations that caused them to rebel with Horus. Of course, the supporting ordinance fire could always land on the WE's, causing the whole thing to not work out.

 

I can see your point but it would depend IMO on Perturabo's outlook. 

Perturabo uses warriors he's most displeased with in his forlorn hope attacks, ones he does not want (nor expect) to see again. I cannot for the life of me remember which novel it's from but it is shown that he's done this.

If Perturabo viewed this as a crucial moment where the wall will be taken (but with high casualties) then yeah I absolutely I can see him being infuriated by Angron stealing his thunder.

Similarly, if Angron and the WE Leeroy Jenkins the assault mucking it up then Perturabo would be apoplectic with rage.

OTOH. Perturabo is the one that subdued Angron and brought him to heel, he knows how blood mad the WE and Angron are, there is an equally weighted argument that Perturabo would have with this knowledge planned around it, throwing the WE an Angron into the very worst of things conserving his troops (no doubt with the Iron Warriors laughing about it's time the other legions got a dose of their medicine they've been having to take for 2 centuries). This would mean it's Perturabo's plan and execution, exploiting the WE and Angron (no doubt Khârn dying (for the first time) as he's doomed to do at the walls).

I mean... Perturabo is going to be angry and bitter about something he always is, it's his ground state of being! Perhaps the WE and Angron survive far more than they should do, carving a swathe through the defenders. Perhaps the Imperial Fists hold out longer than Perturabo envisions and he blames the minute errors of his own soldiers as the cause. Perturabo is ever a perfectionist and he knows nothing is perfect in reality (unlike Fulgrim who thinks he's perfect) which causes him constant disappointment and bitterness.

I mean, remember in Angel Exerminatus where he builds his Amphitheatre at Fulgrims request and for a moment he's happy before it's "ruined" by others. There is only a certain level of "not that bitter" Perturabo can attain and it's not high.

 

 

There's also the whole angle with Skraviok of the NL

's Raptors making a humongous deal about being the first Traitors on top of the walls

. So there's quite a bit of pride on the line especially in a setting where survival is not the most important metric.

 

*********************

 

Got my first game in with my IW since Faith&Fury dropped.

 

I brought the following:

 

 

Hidden Content

 

Battalion 1:

 

HQ:

Chaos Lord

-Jump Pack

-Chain axe

-Combi-Bolter

-Warlord: Siege Master

-Relic: Spitespitter

 

Sorcerer

-Jump Pack

-Force Axe

-Combi-Bolter

 

TROOPS:

Cultists x 10

-Brutal melee weapon + auto pistols

 

Cultists x 10

-Brutal melee weapon + auto pistols

 

Cultists x 10

-Brutal melee weapon + auto pistols

 

ELITES:

Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought

-Butcher Cannon x 2

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Havocs

-Lascannon x 4

-Champion bolter + chainsword

 

Havocs

-Lascannon x 4

-Champion bolter + chainsword

 

Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought

Aka “The Butcher”

-Butcher cannon array x 2

-Hellflamers x 2

 

 

Battalion 2:

 

HQ:

Daemon Prince

Aka “The Tickler”

-Wings

-Malefic talons x 2

-Mark of Slaanesh

-Relic: Intoxicating Elixir

 

Daemon Prince

Aka “Mr Giggles”

-Wings

-Malefic talons x 2

-Mark of Khorne

-Relic: Talisman of Burning Blood

 

TROOPS:

Chaos Space Marines x 10

-Reaper Chain cannon x 2

-Bolters

-Champion Bolter + Chainsword

 

Chaos Space Marines x 10

-Reaper Chain cannon x 2

-Bolters

-Champion Bolter + Chainsword

 

Chaos Space Marines x 5

-Flamer x 1

-Bolters

-Champion Combi-flamer + Chainsword

 

DEDICATED TRANSPORT

Rhino

 

Rhino

 

Rhino

 

 

...vs my frenemy's Black Legion:

 

Hidden Content

 

Battalion 1:

 

HQ:

Abaddon

 

Sorceror

-Terminator Armor

-Force Axe

-Mark of Slaanesh

-Smite

-Prescience

-Delightful Agonies

 

TROOPS:

Chaos Space Marines x 10

-Bolters

-Champion power sword + bolter

 

Chaos Space Marines x 10

-Bolters

-Champion power sword + bolter

 

Chaos Space Marines x 10

-Bolters

-Champion power sword + bolter

 

Chaos Space Marines x 10

-Bolters

-Champion power sword + bolter

 

ELITES:

Chaos Terminators x 10

Aka "Justarean"

-Combi-plasma + Chain axe x 10

 

Battalion 2:

 

HQ:

Master of Possession:

-Cursed Earth

 

Daemon Prince

-Wings

-Malefic Talons x 2

-Mark of Slaanesh

-Relic: Intoxicating Elixir

-Smite

-Warptime

 

TROOPS:

Cultists x 10

-Autoguns x 10

 

Cultists x 10

-Autoguns x 10

 

Cultists x 10

-Autoguns x 10

 

Spearhead Detachment:

 

HQ:

Lord Discordant

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Venomcrawler

 

Venomcrawler

 

Venomcrawler

 

 

 

This was the best game I've ever played in 8th using my IW, although in fairness, my opponent is new to BL and many of the units he is using. Does that count?

 

It's the second time I've faced him with his BL (first was with my BA) and his overall concept is to spread out the CSM for board control while applying early pressure with the Venomcrawlers and Disco Lord, all getting 4++ and DtW support from the Master of Possession. Abby backs up the CSM with his preferred High-Low* tactic and T2 the Terminator bomb drops in and annihilates things with the classic Endless Cacophony double-tap while getting Prescience'd and re-rolls To Hit of 1 from the Sorceror (using the BL Strategem to give him a WLT). The Slaaneshi DP is the secondary pressure, using <Character> for protection from all the Troops until double-whammy'ing the wings + Warptime setup for a charge (I taught him that <proud look>). The Cultists do what they do best and hold backfield objectives and hope to go unnoticed. It's a variation of his tried-and-true playstyle regardless of army (he used to do Eldar waaaaay back in 6th, then Dark Angels in 7th, then Black Templars in 8th, now BL): put early pressure with distraction units that will pull their weight if they get close while having tons of Troops that are hard to shift take over most of the board, all backed by a killer HQ.

 

As for me, my list was not the most optimized, in part because it was built with the plan of Battalion 2 running as Red Corsairs (I know, I know....scummy**) to get that juicy extra CP and also give the dual DP's the ability to Advance + Charge. I decided upon arrival that I wanted the whole thing to be IW both for flavor and to really get the most of the new stuff in F&F. If I had planned better as well, I would have put the Cultists in a giant bomb unit and gone 5x5 with the CSM as well, but I wanted to test out both the new Cannon Fodder Strat as well as Reaper Chancannons which I just recently assembled.

 

Without going any longer in this post with a blow-by-blow, suffice to say I shot him off the board and he conceded T2 since I had killed everything but the cultists, a CSM squad, Abbadon (cowering in his backfield) and his Terminator bomb which was rendered in effective by the board control I established with CSM, Rhinos, and Cultists being the only units he would have been able to shoot up when he came in.

 

The big takeaways for me:

 

-Siege Master WLT works wonders when you have the right targets...but quickly goes away once enemy vehicles are gone (duh!). I was most excited about this WLT, but now I'm thinking it's effects can be replicated on-demand by either spending 2CP for a Devastation Battery or the Tank Hunters strat.

 

-I really like Spitespitter. I took it on a whim to test out any new relic and man did it work wonders. The thing is a beaut, especially if you can get Bolter Discipline rolling as well. Putting it on a jump lord was nasty since I was able to hop up to high ground with a commanding field of vision, buff nearby Havocs, and get bolter disc in T2. Combined with Siege Master it did work in polishing off the disco lord, freeing my havocs up to annihilate characters.

 

-Cannon Fodder is game changing. That's probably obvious, but I think any self-respecting legionnaire of the IV should never leave home without his human grots.

 

I may add more to this later.

 

*High-Low:

Hidden Content

 

a military doctrine, primarily in terms of fighter aircraft, where you use lots of cheap relatively expendable units to flood the ground/air backed up by a low number of high-cost yet extremely capable "silver bullet" units that can respond to enemy threats that are identified by the cheaper units that are all over the place

 

High numbers, Low effectiveness = cheap units

High effectiveness, Low numbers = expensive units

 

 

**but part of the appeal of the IV Legion/IW to me is the fact they are calculating :cuss 's who would do just the sort of thing as deploying other tactics and coating them over in their own colors

[Kythnos]

Congratulations on your victory! Your list feels quite a bit stronger than your opponent's, but that should not take away anything from a triumph in the name of the IV.

 

Since you used only one of the new relics, what do you think about the ones that you did not choose?

Congratulations on your victory! Your list feels quite a bit stronger than your opponent's, but that should not take away anything from a triumph in the name of the IV.

 

Since you used only one of the new relics, what do you think about the ones that you did not choose?

 

And do you think that bigger cultist squads would have made Cannon fodder even stronger?

[Mallios]

Your list feels quite a bit stronger than your opponent's

To be fair, isn't list building a key part of the game? Having a stronger list is still a part of out-playing your opponent and winning.

 

Iron Within!

[Kythnos]

 

Your list feels quite a bit stronger than your opponent's

To be fair, isn't list building a key part of the game? Having a stronger list is still a part of out-playing your opponent and winning.

 

Iron Within!

It surely is, though I value games more where both lists are roughly of equal strength (obviously, there are great scenarios for unbalanced armies too). In any case I did not want to devalue the victory of a fellow warsmith.

[Mallios]

There's certainly something to be said for closely marched armies.