BA Today

[Dont-Be-Haten]

We've been at this edition for almost 2 months now, and I still don't know what the hell I'm doing with my boys in red list wise.

 

I'll build 8 lists. call them all rubbish and start all over. Supposedly you can play how you want still, but I keep running out of points.

 

Been trying so many different things. Several of my list from Angels Blade, just don't feel the same. Nor do my FTSF lists. Taking anything less than a battalion or like variant for +1 CP min feels wasted.

 

Back to the drawing board. *shoots list 29 into bucket with 28 others*

Edited August 27, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

We've been at this edition for almost 2 months now, and I still don't know what the hell I'm doing with my boys in red list wise.

 

I'll build 8 lists. call them all rubbish and start all over. Supposedly you can play how you want still, but I keep running out of points.

 

Been trying so many different things. Several of my list from Angels Blade, just don't feel the same. Nor do my FTSF lists. Taking anything less than a battalion or like variant for +1 CP min feels wasted.

 

Back to the drawing board. *shoots list 29 into bucket with 28 others*

I feel your pain, I've been playing non stop with BA and find myself in the same place as 7th but with less focus; out manned, out gunned and out classed.

 

I think we need to wait for the codex, at the very least, to have some much needed point reductions.

 

Even the stop-gap new obsec rule doesn't help if your building 7th style BA lists.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Like, I love the demi company idea with death company added for flavor.

 

that makes ObSec for me more viable. I've actually been toying with a drop pod list with devastators and sternguard.

 

With back line of whirl winds and land speeders.

[Tonius]

Well, today I've just ordered Space Hulk 2014 Ed. on eBay...

Stupid accident: I was cleaning my computer mouse while surfing when I clicked "buy" ;P

 

I love the minis so I'll have to play more termies than I intended to :)

[Indefragable]

In both 7th and 8th I find that Blood Angels Tactical Marines are in a weird place. More than any other faction, they just seem to weigh us down.

 

In 7th you could run the Tacti-Q drop pod with all flamers, at least. In 8th, for me at least, I find the only reason to take them are to satisfy Troops slots for a Battalion...if I don't have room for ASM with meltas. Otherwise Scouts can do much the same job cheaper, plus extend that 9" buffer zone to enemy Deep Strikers.

 

In 7th

Hidden Content

Dark Angels were Stubborn and had good overwatch = well suited for camping OBJ in MSU

White Scars could more reliably Run and jump out of bad combats

Space Wolves could be kitted up to be even more versatile, including extra attacks (chainswords) for everyone

Imperial Fists were the bolter dudes

Iron Hands were a bit hardier

Ultramarines got their Doctrine re-rolls, and lots of them

Salamanders had better Sgts (Master -crafted) and flamers and amazing meltas if you brought Vulkan He'Stan (which you were always bringing).

 

Blood Angels had....slightly better combat when they successfully charged, but without additional attacks or bonuses, or an extra power weapon or something, it was a marginal at best advantage.

 

 

My point is that my experience on the TT is that BA Tacticals have been a weak point for us. and 8th seems to be exasperating that as well. I'm hoping our equivalent of Chapter Tactics gives us Emperor's Children always-strike-first or something of equal potency as that opens a sweeping advantage for almost every unit we have. Suddenly Tacs become dangerous screening units rather than just speedbumps.

[brother_b]

I thought that tactical squads were basically our objective sitters. I am tempted to throw in either a full sized devastator squad or a full sized tactical squad into a drop pod for first turn objective grabbing. Not sure how that'll pan out but 10 marines and a drop pod appearing on the flank or objective seems like a good speed bump to me allowing more powerful units a chance to move up/seize objectives.

 

Not sure but I think I'll try it out because painting a tactical squad is in my near future and I have a drop pod.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I thought that tactical squads were basically our objective sitters. I am tempted to throw in either a full sized devastator squad or a full sized tactical squad into a drop pod for first turn objective grabbing. Not sure how that'll pan out but 10 marines and a drop pod appearing on the flank or objective seems like a good speed bump to me allowing more powerful units a chance to move up/seize objectives.

 

Not sure but I think I'll try it out because painting a tactical squad is in my near future and I have a drop pod.

Honestly you're better off taking 2 separate squads in the drop pod. especially if you were just going to run them as a combat squad or MSU.

[Indefragable]

I thought that tactical squads were basically our objective sitters. I am tempted to throw in either a full sized devastator squad or a full sized tactical squad into a drop pod for first turn objective grabbing. Not sure how that'll pan out but 10 marines and a drop pod appearing on the flank or objective seems like a good speed bump to me allowing more powerful units a chance to move up/seize objectives.

 

Not sure but I think I'll try it out because painting a tactical squad is in my near future and I have a drop pod.

Tacs are our OBJ sitters, but that's a role that Scouts can arguably play as well as if not better than Tacs.

 

My meta has a "standard" loadout of melta/combo-melta Tacs in Rhino or Razorback. Since we are vanilla Marines + some unique units this edition (so far), I've experimented with that loadout as well. It's not bad at all...but it's far less efficient for us since we can get melta in so many other places. Secondly, our unique stuff is so pricey that the cost of the above setup is felt ever more.

 

A problem I am working through.

[brother_b]

 

I thought that tactical squads were basically our objective sitters. I am tempted to throw in either a full sized devastator squad or a full sized tactical squad into a drop pod for first turn objective grabbing. Not sure how that'll pan out but 10 marines and a drop pod appearing on the flank or objective seems like a good speed bump to me allowing more powerful units a chance to move up/seize objectives.

 

Not sure but I think I'll try it out because painting a tactical squad is in my near future and I have a drop pod.

Honestly you're better off taking 2 separate squads in the drop pod. especially if you were just going to run them as a combat squad or MSU.

 

 

Don't small units just get focused down too quick and you lose the special/heavy weapons without those "ablative" regular marines? I'm brand new to 8th and only have 2 games in so just wondering out loud.

[Panzer]

 

 

I thought that tactical squads were basically our objective sitters. I am tempted to throw in either a full sized devastator squad or a full sized tactical squad into a drop pod for first turn objective grabbing. Not sure how that'll pan out but 10 marines and a drop pod appearing on the flank or objective seems like a good speed bump to me allowing more powerful units a chance to move up/seize objectives.

 

Not sure but I think I'll try it out because painting a tactical squad is in my near future and I have a drop pod.

Honestly you're better off taking 2 separate squads in the drop pod. especially if you were just going to run them as a combat squad or MSU.

 

 

Don't small units just get focused down too quick and you lose the special/heavy weapons without those "ablative" regular marines? I'm brand new to 8th and only have 2 games in so just wondering out loud.

 

Yeah but you could have two heavy weapons and two Sergeants instead of one special weapon, one heavy weapon and one Sergeant.

Also it gives you the option to split them up to cover more ground.

Oh and there are weapons that get twice as many shots when a unit contains 10 models or more.

And then there's the general advantage of MSU which is that the opponent is more likely to waste firepower by shooting at smaller units than he would've against a single bigger unit.

 

The contra would be that it would be an additional killpoint (if you play with killpoints) and that bigger units benefit better from unit buffing effects (psychic powers and stratagems for example).

 

It has advantages and disadvantages and it's up to the individual player to decide what fits his army and his playstyle better.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Hey guys,

 

some of you might remember me from a while back. In 7th edition I kinda left 40k because of reasons without ever playing a single game!

Then my beloved Old and New World got killed off by GW and the ursurper AoS was set in their place - which I hated. Still do, for Fantasy.

 

From what I've heard, 8th edition sounds promising in some regards? Are the Blood Angels in a worse spot than before? Is there a new codex out?

And what's all this with the Primaris dudes? Is GW doing truescale now?

 

Many questions. I hope the brothers in these hallowed halls have answers. Thanks in advance.

 

 

PS: I hope that those of you in the US, especially Texas, are safe and sound.

[Riot Earp]

Hi Snorri welcome back. I remember you. ;) BA are at the moment in an strange position. Without chapter tactics and relics they are in a weaker spot thqn codex marines. I would wait for the codex which is planned for the end of the year.

[Blindhamster]

Great to see you back snorri!!

[Panzer]

Hey guys, some of you might remember me from a while back. In 7th edition I kinda left 40k because of reasons without ever playing a single game! Then my beloved Old and New World got killed off by GW and the ursurper AoS was set in their place - which I hated. Still do, for Fantasy. From what I've heard, 8th edition sounds promising in some regards? Are the Blood Angels in a worse spot than before? Is there a new codex out? And what's all this with the Primaris dudes? Is GW doing truescale now? Many questions. I hope the brothers in these hallowed halls have answers. Thanks in advance. PS: I hope that those of you in the US, especially Texas, are safe and sound.

Right now Blood Angels aren't in a particularly bright place but that counts for most armies. Vanilla Marines, Grey Knights, Chaos Space Marines and soon Death Guard have their Codex. The rest is still waiting.

However GW is releasing them MUCH faster than in the past to get everyone on the same level (roughly) so we won't have to wait that long.

 

Primaris Marines are Space Marines that got three more organs implanted by Cawl (adMech guy) and thus became physically more capable and taller than regular Space Marines. Apparently a plan set in motion about 10k years ago. They also get all the new toys Cawl made for them over the years (better Bolter, better Plasma, better Jump Packs, etc.).

They apparently are the future of humankind and the days of regular Space Marines are numbered according to Guilliman. Doesn't mean they are going anywhere anytime soon tho.

Marketing-wise GW tries to give their products a more modern look and at the same time make them more "their" thing for copyright reasons. Basically the same they did with all the new/old races in AoS. Imperial Guard getting the additional name Astra Militarum, Eldar Aeldari, Tau becoming T'au and Primaris Marines are just the next steps. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by sfPanzer

[SnorriSnorrison]

Cheers, brothers!! Good to see some of the old names :D

 

I guess I'll get into the core rules then and see if 8th is for me. I kinda want to get some games in, and since I found a local gaming group that has many players, might as well give it a try soon-ish.

 

About the Primaris...so Guillaume is back? Like, he was in stasis though? I saw the model...looking sweet, but if Primarchs are starting to get back from the (almost) dead, we're in for a rough time. Don't know if I like that :-)

[Arkhanist]

Guilliman is back due to reasons; basically he got healed up between death-cult eldar and a 'new' 10k year old Archmagos (Cawl) with custom life support armour. Magnus is back for the 1k sons and Mortarion is about show up for the Death Guard. 

 

8th edition is set about 100 years after the fall of Cadia (end of 7th). The galaxy has been split by a warp rift down the middle, largely cutting off the northern half of the galaxy from the rest of the Imperium and allowing chaos to turn up all over. Despite this, Guilliman has been zipping around in a new crusade with a ton of super-marines (Primaris) that Cawl made and equipped in secret over the last few thousand years. Blood Angels were poised to be wiped out by the 'nids - that's been resolved (I'll leave the detail for you to read up).

 

Most chapters have been reinforced with primaris marines, and new ones have been created of them. They're basically truescale, tougher, and have different equipment to mini-marines. They haven't obsoleted mini-marines yet, but that's widely expected to happen eventually, and they're unlikely to get any new models.

 

There's definitely a power-level difference between index armies (the tide-us-over books) and those that have got codexes so far. Once everyone has a codex - they're doing 10 this year in total, and BA are potentially one in November - it should settle down a lot more. So far it's promising that there's not the massive difference between the codexes compared to 6th or 7th, and they've said they're going to push to get them all out fairly quickly, particularly as they're not doing new stuff for most of them. Overall, it's been a lot less 'blow it all up' to the setting than AoS was, though its much of the same streamlining to the mechanics - the main rules are only 8 pages, with much of the detail pushed to unit datacards.

[Jolemai]

Hey guys, some of you might remember me from a while back. In 7th edition I kinda left 40k because of reasons without ever playing a single game! Then my beloved Old and New World got killed off by GW and the ursurper AoS was set in their place - which I hated. Still do, for Fantasy. From what I've heard, 8th edition sounds promising in some regards? Are the Blood Angels in a worse spot than before? Is there a new codex out? And what's all this with the Primaris dudes? Is GW doing truescale now? Many questions. I hope the brothers in these hallowed halls have answers. Thanks in advance. PS: I hope that those of you in the US, especially Texas, are safe and sound.

Who are you again?

[Indefragable]

 

 

 

I thought that tactical squads were basically our objective sitters. I am tempted to throw in either a full sized devastator squad or a full sized tactical squad into a drop pod for first turn objective grabbing. Not sure how that'll pan out but 10 marines and a drop pod appearing on the flank or objective seems like a good speed bump to me allowing more powerful units a chance to move up/seize objectives.

 

Not sure but I think I'll try it out because painting a tactical squad is in my near future and I have a drop pod.

Honestly you're better off taking 2 separate squads in the drop pod. especially if you were just going to run them as a combat squad or MSU.

Don't small units just get focused down too quick and you lose the special/heavy weapons without those "ablative" regular marines? I'm brand new to 8th and only have 2 games in so just wondering out loud.

My experience with 8th is that units that an opponent wants to shoot to death WILL be shot to death in a single Turn. So it's about maximizing the damage output when you actually get some a chance to fire. That's why you see so many lists that are ridiculous since they are all about absolutely deluging the opponent when it comes time for their Turn.

 

8th, IMO, is closer to Chess than ever before. You need to put a pawn in the enemy's face so that he wastes a knight taking that pawn so you can take his knight win your queen.

[Xenith]

 

Hey guys, some of you might remember me from a while back. In 7th edition I kinda left 40k because of reasons without ever playing a single game! Then my beloved Old and New World got killed off by GW and the ursurper AoS was set in their place - which I hated. Still do, for Fantasy. From what I've heard, 8th edition sounds promising in some regards? Are the Blood Angels in a worse spot than before? Is there a new codex out? And what's all this with the Primaris dudes? Is GW doing truescale now? Many questions. I hope the brothers in these hallowed halls have answers. Thanks in advance. PS: I hope that those of you in the US, especially Texas, are safe and sound.

Who are you again?

 

 

He is Snorri, son of Snorri.

[LutherMax]

Hey guys, some of you might remember me from a while back. In 7th edition I kinda left 40k because of reasons without ever playing a single game! Then my beloved Old and New World got killed off by GW and the ursurper AoS was set in their place - which I hated. Still do, for Fantasy. From what I've heard, 8th edition sounds promising in some regards? Are the Blood Angels in a worse spot than before? Is there a new codex out? And what's all this with the Primaris dudes? Is GW doing truescale now? Many questions. I hope the brothers in these hallowed halls have answers. Thanks in advance. PS: I hope that those of you in the US, especially Texas, are safe and sound.

Welcome back Snorri! I've only had two games of 8th but in my opinion they (GW) have achieved their objective of streamlining the game and making it a simpler, quicker and more enjoyable experience. There are still nuances that take some learning and plenty of strategies to be considered.

 

Currently any army without a Codex is at a significant disadvantage going up against an army with one – mainly due to the powerful and varied Strategems* available in the Codices vs the limited selection in the main rule book. And then there are Chapter Tactics which give each faction one or more army-wide ability or bonus.

 

The Codices so far have all been great, so there's no reason not to be hopeful that ours will be too when it comes out (purportedly before Christmas). As long as GW finally figure out our 'identity', that is

 

 

* If you haven't read about it, the new Matched Play system uses Command Points (which you get mainly from using certain Detachments in a Battleforged army), which can be spent on Strategems – special abilities that vary from army to army to be used in certain phases or situations. As claimed in the rules they can be very powerful, and really turn the tide of the battle.

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey guys, some of you might remember me from a while back. In 7th edition I kinda left 40k because of reasons without ever playing a single game! Then my beloved Old and New World got killed off by GW and the ursurper AoS was set in their place - which I hated. Still do, for Fantasy. From what I've heard, 8th edition sounds promising in some regards? Are the Blood Angels in a worse spot than before? Is there a new codex out? And what's all this with the Primaris dudes? Is GW doing truescale now? Many questions. I hope the brothers in these hallowed halls have answers. Thanks in advance. PS: I hope that those of you in the US, especially Texas, are safe and sound.

Who are you again?

 

 

He is Snorri, son of Snorri.

Pretty much that. B)

 

Thanks for the welome, guys.

Been looking through the rules a bit and also build a list based on an army builder app....

It looks like initative is gone, that's going to be a weird one for sure! If I understood correctly, he whose turn it is decides that one unit goes first, then the other player? A bit unusual, as far as combats go!

 

DC seem...unimpressive. So they only get 1 attack when they charge and a 6+ FnP? Whoa. Damn.

Lemartes does look cool though.

 

I'm going to sift through the rules a bit more and might paint up my Captain for the Second Company - he's been sitting/flying around my apartment in 80% finished stage.

Thanks again all for the explanations!

[Xenith]

 

It looks like initative is gone, that's going to be a weird one for sure! If I understood correctly, he whose turn it is decides that one unit goes first, then the other player? A bit unusual, as far as combats go!

 

Charging units or those with a special rule activate first, you then take it in turns to activate, but can interrupt using command points.

 

DC seem...unimpressive. So they only get 1 attack when they charge and a 6+ FnP? Whoa. Damn.

Lemartes does look cool though.

One extra attack. With chainswords they get like 2 basic, +1 for sword, +1 for charge.

I'm going to sift through the rules a bit more and might paint up my Captain for the Second Company - he's been sitting/flying around my apartment in 80% finished stage.

Thanks again all for the explanations!

 

 

Good to see you getting back into it!

[Karhedron]

DC seem...unimpressive. So they only get 1 attack when they charge and a 6+ FnP? Whoa. Damn.

Lemartes does look cool though.

DC are not a power-house unit for sure but they are pretty cheap costing just a 17ppm or 20 with Jump Packs. Bonus attacks are harder to come by in 8th edition so they do quite well. You can kit them out with Chainwords for and additional +1A which makes them pretty good at blending low-armour unit. Alternatively you can kit them out fancy weapons as the extra attacks will make them more cost effective, particularly if you throw in someone like Lemartes for rerolls.

 

A feature of Blood Angels in 8th is that most of our characters have bonus bubbles and you often need to stack a couple of these to get the most out of units.

[Indefragable]

More than playing the enemy in 8th, a BA player has to play his bubbles. It's annoying especially considering just how dependent we are, but such is life so far in 8th.

 

As for DC...

 

...I am struggling to find a really useful place for them in my lists beyond building an entire list around them (fluffy?). On paper, the "best" use is Astorath + Sanguinor + 15x Thunder hammers, but that's not realistic. A neat-o loadout is a power weapon + chainsword. I.e. Power sword + chainsword so you can swing 3x with the sword and get a "free" bonus attack with the chainsword. Especially with a Sang Priest around, that can be dirty.

[OrbOfAntioch]

Hey guys, pedantic rule question here:

 

Can you reroll Overwatch hits and wounds? Guy I played earlier today insisted that his Gulliman & bubble friends can because "Rerolls" is not considered a "Modifier". 

I couldn't find the proper ruling to tell him otherwise..