BA Today

[The Unseen]

 

 

You can declare a charge on anything that is within 12". It doesn't matter whether or not it's possible for a model to get within 1". And you don't have to pile in or consolidate into another unit if you don't want to. Consolidating into another unit is good when it can't really hurt you too much and you can stop it from shooting next turn (like a tank), but you don't want to consolidate into a unit that will wipe you.

To be honest DBH, I am a little confused by your criticism/concern about the rule. I feel like I am missing something and don't completely understand what you're saying.

Well, say you drop a unit down 9" away from a screening unit, and the opponent has left a 3.1" gap between the screening unit and an actual target.

You use Descent of Angels to charge 3d6.

It doesn't matter, you can't declare a charge against something more than 12" away.

Basically, it's an arbitrary restriction on melee units in an edition full of more of the same.

Imo that's perfectly fine and proper positioning from the opponent then.

 

 

Except its just another rule buffing chaff infantry for no reason. It isn't hard to use a tape measure and make sure you screens are more than 3 inches away from what their screening, you can pre-measure everything.

 

Sure, rules as their written that's the way it works, that doesn't make it  a "good" thing. Especially with the nerf to fly, a thin wall of bodies may as well be an impenetrable force field for melee units. But shooting through units doesn't even grant a cover save anymore.

[Panzer]

Meh, it lets chaff to what they are supposed to do. Nothing wrong with that. There are problems with the chaff vs elite balance but this is hardly an issue. Actually the more people can do things like this the better it is for the game imo. Movement got a boost in relevance with 8th edition compared to 7th but it's still way too straight forward imo.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I guess it's just frustrating for a unit you consolidate into to get free attacks. And the fact they hyped up consolidating into gun lines, and giving armies the fight fight twice stratagems made it seem like that was meant to deter armies from bunching up. Being able to disengage with only a minor penalty of not being able to shoot dor non fly armies is so strong. Too strong in my opinion. But this is something weve been complaining about since the 2nd week of 8th editions release. And in my opinion it's still one of the worse rules in current 40k and I dont think they will address it.

[Panzer]

I'll gladly let some shooty unit punch me with wet noodles if it means they can't shoot next turn. I don't think that's a "minor" penalty. That's a major penalty and often the sole reason why I charge things imo. ^^

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I'll gladly let some shooty unit punch me with wet noodles if it means they can't shoot next turn. I don't think that's a "minor" penalty. That's a major penalty and often the sole reason why I charge things imo. ^^

Until the screen backs up and the real guns shoot the unit to death, after that marginal chance of whiffing a save after that noodle arm takes out an MEQ model or two.

 

I get it. I really wish we went back to break tests and the ability to push units off the board via 5th edition. The fact the units could still shoot also made it at least moderately balanced versus what we have now which isn't very balanced at all.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

So I have 2 redemptors. I'm thinking of using them as hammers since they have 4-5 attacks with strength 14.

[BluejayJunior]

I got ya, DBH. When you touch an infantry squad or something similar and it can just fall back while everything else shoots you, it's not great. But if you can touch a couple of tanks, then them not being able to shoot may be a big difference.

[Xenith]

I joined the dark side.

I also made a tutorial for freehanding the Flesh Tearers Chapter Badge - check out the tutorial in my painting log:

http://www.bolterand...-ics/?p=5194071

[Panzer]

One of us! One of us!

[Jolemai]

Two weeks remain to complete your RTS entries!

[Indefragable]

Regarding Falling Back, I think it should be a dice roll. Kinda “Wyches for everyone!”

 

Certain units should be great at running down fleeing units (maybe get to fight again if the fleeing enemy fails their roll?) and others should be better st punching hard. Kind of a featherweight vs heavyweight thing.

 

So in SM terms Terminators would hit very hard but be less mobile while day ASM could fight again if a unit tries to Fall Back. Makes ASM a niche harassment unit.

[Panzer]

An LD test for falling back would be awesome. Maybe I should send GW another mail about it. I doubt they'll make it happen tho unless they see it being a huge problem in tournaments.

[Indefragable]

I just see everything as a matter of risk/reward, pros/cons......well designed games, IMHO, are about options: A, B, or C where each has a pro and a con and deciding which is best for what situation is up to the general.

 

So just like Charging is reliant on a dice roll, so too should Falling Back reliant on a bit of luck and/or open you up to potential negative effects. Do I risk those Berzerkers tearing through my Conscript blob if I attempt to Fall Back so I can shoot them? Or do I sacrifice the Conscripts in hopes that it buys me time to reposition my forces away from them?

 

Pros and Cons and choices.

[burningsky25]

An LD test for falling back would be awesome. Maybe I should send GW another mail about it. I doubt they'll make it happen tho unless they see it being a huge problem in tournaments.

 

I've long thought morale and leadership in general shouldn't exist as a universal principle - there's just too many armies that it doesn't make sense for.  Space Marines by and large, Eldar in general, and especially Necrons simply shouldn't be running away.  There's other ways to imagine it but it's obvious the intent of the rule is to most directly reflect losses from morale.  And more often than not it seems the armies of the far future shouldn't be affected by this.

 

Now I still think that morale applied to everyone is generally not a great idea, but I have heard some fantastic suggestions for alternate or additional usages for leadership.  You've touched on the general concept here, namely that leadership could be used as a roll outside of just morale; for actions that would require trained soldiers to execute well or even to simply follow orders.  I think falling back is a good example, though I've also seen suggested things like shooting at enemy units that aren't the closest, or maybe for making a charge into monstrous creatures of some sort.  

 

Generally spitballing here, and it could obviously change a lot about the game if actually implemented, but I do think it would be a far more accurate way of depicting the differences of armies that rely on lots of poorly trained or scared soldiers compared to emotionless or highly trained warriors.  Now that's a neat idea, and would add more depth to the game to armies.

[Indefragable]

Interesting point, @burningsky25. I think it's too integral to the game to be removed....but then again they did away with the Initiative stat line in 8th...

 

I do think it's in a weird place where it's really only used for casualties. Kinda to your point, I think they need to either include it in a lot more ways or lessen it's effect even more.

 

I.e. Psykers take a Ld test before each power they cast (or perils = Ld test). If an OBJ is contested between OBSEC Troops units from two different sides, then they roll off on Ld or such.

 

Things that balance it out between hordes and Elite units and don't make it obvious that you can just throw bodies at something to solve any problem. Hordes suffer from Morale the most...in theory....but almost every Horde army has a deliberate way around it or to lessen it (Mob Rule, Commissars, Synapse, et al...)

[Jolemai]

New Unit of the Week entry:

• Stormhawk Interceptor

[Indefragable]

Delayed post as well, but this past Sunday I fought Orkz for the first time post-Codex launch for them.

 

I love Orkz. Who doesn't? I think they're in a pretty good place at the moment: quite strong yet in a brutish way....not too many shenanigans or cheese-rage antics, but rather simple tools with which the brutally kunnin' (or kunningly brutal?) Warboss can pull out of the toolbox to get some good results.

 

My win streak snapped. We had to end the game due to time (lights shutting off in the place), but he had a commanding 12-4 lead and had killed my WL, so things were looking....like a TRAP FOR HIM muahahahahah.

 

I fought against a Speedboyz army consisting of:

Hidden Content

-new Wartrike Warboss

-big mek with KFF

-bonecruncher with Mek and KFF

-Warboss on foot with big choppa and kombi-flamer

-2 of the new buggies

-2x squads of boyz + trucks

-1x squad of tankbusta + truck

-2x10 bikers

-1x10 Nob bikers

something else I'm forgetting

 

I brought:

Hidden Content

 

HQ:

Captain

-jump pack

-2x lightning claws

-Death Visions of Sanguinius

 

Captain

-jump pack

-thunder hammer

-storm shield

-DVoS

 

Lemartes

 

Sanguinor

-Warlord

 

TROOPS:

Scouts x 5

-bolt pistol

-cqw

-Sgt bolter + chainsword

 

Scouts x 5

-bolt pistol

-cqw

-Sgt bolter + chainsword

 

Scouts x 5

-bolt pistol

-cqw

-Sgt bolter + chainsword

 

Scouts x 5

-bolt pistol

-cqw

-Sgt bolter + chainsword

 

Scouts x 5

-bolters

-Sgt bolter + chainsword

 

Scouts x 5

-bolters

-Sgt bolter + chainsword

-heavy bolter

 

ELITES:

Company Ancient

-jump pack

-bolter

 

Sanguinary Guard

-Power fists + angelus boltguns

 

Death Company x 14

-jump packs

-bolter + chainsword x 11

-bolter + power sword x 2

-bolter + power fist x 1

 

Death Company x 5

-jump packs

-bolter + power fist x 2

-thunder hammer x 1

-bolter + chainsword x 2

 

HEAVY SUPPORT
Devastators x 5

-lascannons x 2

-Armorium Cherub

 

Devastators x 5

-lascannons x 2

-Armorium Cherub

 

Devastators x 5

-heavy bolters x 2

-Armorium Cherub

 

 

 

How it went:

Hidden Content

 

Hidden Content

Pretty much, although it was a much fairer fight then it seemed. I just made some key rookie mistakes early on.

 

I also rolled like :cuss especially on damage rolls (not a single lascannon did more than 2 damage the entire game). The number of characters wobbling around with a single wound left on both sides was hilarious. But, as always with the Orkz, when he has more 1 wound things left than I do, he's going to win.

 

We did Deployment # 5 and Tactical Gambit. Having two Red Wuns go Fastah armies facing off against each other with a short DMZ in between was the makings of a bloodfest.

 

Basically, I deployed in an Echelon Left formation.I deployed 3x CQC Scouts and the Heavy bolter Scouts on my right flank up close to his lines, with all 3x Devs, the characters, the SG, and the DC blob all up high in a set of ruins with commanding views in my DZ. the bolter scouts and 5man DC were far off to the left holding an OBJ. My intent was to try to draw him in to my left where I could pounce while getting the Scout blobs in early to tie things up.

 

Of course he Siezed, since the laws of the universe state that whenever Indy has -1 to go first and STILL manages to roll higher, the opponent therefore MUST roll a 6 on Seize the Initiative.

 

He wiped all 4 of my scout units on my right flank (gee....should have seen that coming) in Rookie Mistake #1. He pushed forward quite a bit, just within jump + charge range.

 

My turn I popped out the DC + Lemmy up the center to take on 2x trukks and a buggy while the SG + Sanguinor + banner pushed right to engage his 2x bikerz, 1x nob bikerz, and another buggy. Captain Smash WoF'd behind his lines to be in prime charge range of his WL (Wartrike) while Captain Blender (2x LC's) stayed to buff the guns. I proceed to do a mere 6 damage to a freakin' wartruck and 1 damage to another with all of my dev squads, including Signum + Cherub on 2x lascannons AND Hellfire Shells + Cherub. Massed bolters from Scouts and DC plink off a 2 more wounds from the trucks and Angelus boltguns work over a few bikes (those things are pretty decent). For once I actually remembered that the Sanguinor has grenades, but no effect. I get all the charges off I want and manage to pop both wartrukks, "tri-locking" the inhabitants to death although the single-model Warboss has just enough room to escape. I which with my power fist on the Scrapjet so that thing escapes with just a wound or two missing. But of course one of the trucks explodes, killing a DC and bringing Lemartes down to a single wound. I :cuss -ing HATE that rule. SG get into combat with a prime # of units, but he pops the interupt stratagem and kills 5/8 SG with his nobs. Ouch. They fight back and thanks to WL Sanguinor's buffs kill all but one of the Nobs. Sanguinor wipes the regular bike squad he solo'd. Captain Smash uses DoA to get into combat with his WL....and I only get 1 extra attack from Red Ramapage, for a grand total of 6. I whiff a bunch so that his WL has 4 wounds left. He punches back but Smashy makes all his saves. I pop HTC, depleting my CP, and manage to whiff 4 more attacks, so that only 2 wound and only 1 failed save on his part, leaving his WL with a single wound.

 

...this proves disastrous as his WLT allows all Ork Speedboyz (bikes and buggies and stuff) to Fall Back and Charge. Yea, that proves nasty next Turn. DC get wiped, Sangunior and Smash go down. 2x SG live to Fall Back and try to get Behind Enemy Lines while the Banner castles up with the Devs. Lemmy goes over to meet up with the 5man DC unit bounding up.

 

More bad rolls and whiffed attacks on my part leaves the game at 12-4 before we had to call it for time.

 

 

Lessons:

-use your noggin'. Almost all of my army had Fly. Almost all of his army was bikes or vehicles. There were plenty of Mechanicam scenerey around. I could have danced around him, but greedy for CQC kills instead.

 

-this would have been a textbook example of when to "Starburst:" essentially castling up, picking off the enemy with ranged gunfire, and then exploding your units out in multiple directions to pounce/take OBJ later in the game at a time and place of your choosing. I thought about it, but overruled myself out of greed for the kills. Rookie Mistake #2

 

-Orkz get their best results when they can swamp you. I should have used my jump packs to help spread the field. Instead I played into his hands by charging across a wide front. It would have been better to play a bit more tactical and kill a few things in CQC with a single unit (DC) to lessen the risk of exposing myself as well as to bait him into a better opportunity for my units to charge in and do work.

 

-Forlorn Fury: this is one of the best Strategems in our book. I should have gone with my gut and put my DC in a prime 1st Turn charge position, only to pop FF to get them safely back out of harm's way after he Seized. I failed to make use of it at all. But more and more I feel that if you're bringing DC, you'd better be using FF either offensively or Defensively.

[Arkaniss]

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself Indefragable we're all susceptible to the Red Thirst from time to time Personally when I play 40K I'm here to have fun and kill things, we can all play the objectives game and be tactical and thoughtful but now and then it's just nice to descend from the heavens and chainsword things to death  

 

The only Ork player I know is only just starting out (so we've only played KT) but playing a new codex is always enlightening. There will be so much new for you to learn about what they can do, not to mention the various Strategems available. You'll do better next time forearmed with this knowledge :tu:

[Dont-Be-Haten]

To those of you on this side of the pond. Happy Thanksgiving. To those on the other side. Happy normal Thursday.

 

Thanks for such an awesome place for me to escape reality for a little while. B&C and all of you are one thing I'm truly thankful for.

[9x19 Parabellum]

What a great post, DBH!

[Charlo]

To those of you on this side of the pond. Happy Thanksgiving. To those on the other side. Happy normal Thursday.

 

Thanks for such an awesome place for me to escape reality for a little while. B&C and all of you are one thing I'm truly thankful for.

WOOO! THURSDAY! YEAH!

 

Good to have you aboard matey.

[brother_b]

To those of you on this side of the pond. Happy Thanksgiving. To those on the other side. Happy normal Thursday.

 

Thanks for such an awesome place for me to escape reality for a little while. B&C and all of you are one thing I'm truly thankful for.

Plus it was your birthday. Happy belated.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Oh yeah, I forgot I put that on here! Thanks for the birthday shout out.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

So the new Calgaris model gives me hope for our chapter's archaic models. It's just too bad Tycho won't get a Tychoris model. RIP.

[sebs_evo7]

Yes a jacked up mephy would be great

 

I hope Gabriel does not get a primaris version to stay true to fluff