BA Today

[Rhavien]

His mini is indeed beautiful to put together. I'm a bit nervous getting paint on him, though. There is so much to mess up. But I guess it's just as always, when the wash has dried everything comes together and looks good. 

[Jolemai]

You can always strip it if you don't like it too 

[Blindhamster]

Folks seen that apparently blood angels are currently the worst performing faction in the game? That seems a little off when we shouldn't really be much different from "space marines" right?

[Paladin777]

I saw that too. Not sure how that is either. 

[DemonGSides]

According to who?

[Blindhamster]

 

[DemonGSides]

 

AT is fine enough. His voice is impossible to listen to for very long for me. I'm sure he's not "Wrong" but it also doesn't feel right.  His specific points basically lay out why the data doesn't really give enough to give a picture of where BA are; one of the less played, a faction within a faction that didn't get the points update the rest of the faction got, and not a lot of data to speak of.

[Blindhamster]

36 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

AT is fine enough. His voice is impossible to listen to for very long for me. I'm sure he's not "Wrong" but it also doesn't feel right.  His specific points basically lay out why the data doesn't really give enough to give a picture of where BA are; one of the less played, a faction within a faction that didn't get the points update the rest of the faction got, and not a lot of data to speak of.

What’s weird, is 40K stats actually has blood angels much higher at 45% and also as quite a popular army

[BluejayJunior]

14 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

What’s weird, is 40K stats actually has blood angels much higher at 45% and also as quite a popular army

It could depend on how each actually defines Blood Angels in the stats. Whether you only count as Blood Angels while using the Sons of Sanguinius detachment and the Gladius Task Force falls under generic Space Marines. Or if being Blood Angels includes any detachment. 

[Karhedron]

Here is the latest from GW Metawatch which does show BAs near the bottom of the pile but I agree, it does not distinguish what Detachment is being used.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/10/19/warhammer-40000-metawatch-sisters-of-battle-triumph-in-tampa/?utm_source=SM&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=metawatch&utm_content=40kmetawatch19/10/23&fbclid=IwAR0ny3YF36A6jz4E80QWm56-y01u46TBhS-aVlLTwOVToy9KtjhDpGPd9w0

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Karhedron

[Jolemai]

 

Pure coincidence that I now have one painted, honest! 

[Rhavien]

4 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Here is the latest from GW Metawatch which does show BAs near the bottom of the pile but I agree, it does not distinguish what Detachment is being used.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/10/19/warhammer-40000-metawatch-sisters-of-battle-triumph-in-tampa/?utm_source=SM&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=metawatch&utm_content=40kmetawatch19/10/23&fbclid=IwAR0ny3YF36A6jz4E80QWm56-y01u46TBhS-aVlLTwOVToy9KtjhDpGPd9w0

 

I would be concerned, but seeing that 4% would shift us right in the middle of the pack I am not. 

Quite funny that my regular gaming pals play Custodes, Grey Knights and AM. Looking forward to play some totally balanced matches 

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

Looking at that Metawatch, I think Sons of Sanguinius is what counts as Blood Angels, Gladius armies counting as generic SM. Honestly, I'm glad about that. How can you be BA without the Red Thirst? Still, the Sons of Sanguinius detachment is very underwhelming. Is there anything you guys would do to improve it? 

[Paladin777]

Some way to improve charge range. Maybe replace the +1 Str on the charge with +1 distance, and an advance+charge stratagem would be nice too. 

[Karhedron]

Going back to the old +1 to Wound rather than just +1S would be a big improvement. Melee just isn't the kicker it was in 9th so a melee-centric rule is going to struggle to be as effective as a shooting one. 

 

SoS compares OK on paper to Firestorm as both Detachments provide +1S (BAs in melee and Firestorm for shooting within 12"). Firestorm also gives all weapons Assault while Red Thirst also provides +1A so they seem evenly matched. Firestorm looks like it has better Stratagems and Enhancements as the BAs look particularly weak in this area with Red Rampage being the only one that really looks to get work done.

 

It doesn't help that Sanguinary Guard and Dante are still too expensive. SG should be 30ppm max IMHO as there is no way they are better than Bladeguard Vets. Similarly Dante does not perform much better than a regular 85 point Jump Captain. The real kicker is that all the other named Chapter Masters have 3 Damage melee weapons while the Axe Mortalis only does 2 Damage. Also Dante is Regent of Imperium Nihilus, how come both Azrael and Calgar generate extra Command Points while he does not.

 

Really our only good signature unit is the Death Company with Jump Packs as they are about the only jump squad that can still load up on power fists and thunder hammers. But as that is only the Firstborn version, I don't know if they will retain that once our codex drops.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Karhedron

[Paladin777]

I think there's a case to be made for the Librarian Dreadnaught, the Baal Predator, as well as the Jump Sanguinary Priest. 
 

being able to yeet squads all over for secondaries/far-flung objectives is every bit as useful as it sounds, the Baal Predator is a very potent overwatch threat, and the SP's 5+++ and extra pip of AP is a wonderful combo on a large of jump infantry, regardless if it's VV or jump intercessors. 

[BluejayJunior]

With Oath of Moment changing to only rerolling hits, I'd prefer for our codex to replace that with the +1 S and +1 A as our faction ability. And then be able to build on that with detachments. I feel that we'd be less pigeon-holed into being just melee focused that way. I like being able to take vehicles and ranged units without feeling like they get no benefit. Red Thirst being our faction rule would still let us focus on melee, while still getting to pick a detachment that will complement the units we want to take. 

[Paladin777]

Considering they only saw fit to give the 1st company detachment a single turn of RR'ing wounds, there's no way we'd get the full OoM reroll wounds. 
 

Perhaps rerolling melee wounds against OoM target might be a little more realistic. 
 

I think I might be pretty good with that if they made a detachment that did that with strat support for charge distance boosts. 

[Goranged]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Going back to the old +1 to Wound rather than just +1S would be a big improvement. Melee just isn't the kicker it was in 9th so a melee-centric rule is going to struggle to be as effective as a shooting one. 

 

SoS compares OK on paper to Firestorm as both Detachments provide +1S (BAs in melee and Firestorm for shooting within 12"). Firestorm also gives all weapons Assault while Red Thirst also provides +1A so they seem evenly matched. Firestorm looks like it has better Stratagems and Enhancements as the BAs look particularly weak in this area with Red Rampage being the only one that really looks to get work done.

 

It doesn't help that Sanguinary Guard and Dante are still too expensive. SG should be 30ppm max IMHO as there is no way they are better than Bladeguard Vets. Similarly Dante does not perform much better than a regular 85 point Jump Captain. The real kicker is that all the other named Chapter Masters have 3 Damage melee weapons while the Axe Mortalis only does 2 Damage. Also Dante is Regent of Imperium Nihilus, how come both Azrael and Calgar generate extra Command Points while he does not.

 

Really our only good signature unit is the Death Company with Jump Packs as they are about the only jump squad that can still load up on power fists and thunder hammers. But as that is only the Firstborn version, I don't know if they will retain that once our codex drops.

this plus fixing Leader assignments: SP able to joing SG (they need to be more resilient since we cannot go  7 SG now. Also Meph joining BG . Tycho + Devastators, Seth + something other than Tacticals. Finally if you do the math Inceptor does similar damage than Baals but Inceptors are more durable and can deep Strike  3'. So, point adjustment would be awesome. Why not also a rules around FLY keyword to give BA more. flavor and focus.

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Goranged

[Goranged]

52 minutes ago, BluejayJunior said:

With Oath of Moment changing to only rerolling hits, I'd prefer for our codex to replace that with the +1 S and +1 A as our faction ability. And then be able to build on that with detachments. I feel that we'd be less pigeon-holed into being just melee focused that way. I like being able to take vehicles and ranged units without feeling like they get no benefit. Red Thirst being our faction rule would still let us focus on melee, while still getting to pick a detachment that will complement the units we want to take. 

yeah, how Red Thirst is a detachment lore wise? I mean you should not be able to choose, it's just there (army rule) +1 to W. But tactically, yeah BA should be able to me more mobile as a detachment  (+"1 charge) with strat to allow extra 2" movements ala old SG ancient. Finally,  current enhancements are useless.

[Father Mapple]

I have been running the following in my league, and it has been close losses or wins for me so far, since hitting 2000. 

Captain/Chaplain Terminator (changed to Chaplain after point drops in Codex so I could get scouts)
Ancient Terminator
Librarian Terminator
10 Tactical terminators, 2x Assault Cannons
5 Assault Terminators
5 Assault Terminators
Predator Destructor (better than Annihilator in games I've played. Autocannon rapidfire is hilarious!)
Baal predator (flamestorm)
Stormraven Gunship (used in hover mode. Hurricane bolters are amazing!)
Landraider
Death Company Dreadnought
After codex, I added 2x units of Scouts, 5 models each, to infiltrate or screen deployment.

In a focused unit situation like this, the 1st Company Detachment was very useful. Sticky objectives were key, and the terminators being able to re-deep strike for 1cp was great. Makes them way more moveable. 

Predators going together, with the Dreadnought behind them to counter-charge or provide cover are very deadly. 

Usually I send landraider with cargo one direction, predators and dreadnought another direction, Block of 10 terminators up the middle, and last unit of assault terminators deep striking wherever needed. 

Sons of Sanguinius was fine... but the 1st Company strategems were much better for a terminator heavy force. And we could get 1+ attack with enhancements OR 1CP if needed at a big moment.
 

[Paladin777]

ive got enough terminators in my possession for this, as well as a pair of land raiders (one's a crusader, takes the place of the storm raven!). I really need to get them all built and painted up so I can actually use them because that looks like so much fun!

Edited October 23, 2023 by Paladin777

[Jolemai]

What was the update to our Index?

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Jolemai said:

What was the update to our Index?

 

I can't see any at all. We even still have anomalies like Sanguinary Priests being allowed to join Assault Squads on foot despite those no longer existing in the new Codex. Even if we don't get any rules updates, I assumed we would at least be brought into line with the new codex. At this stage it isn't even clear if we are supposed to use the BA Index with the new Codex or with the old SM Index. 

[Karhedron]

Just checked and Space Wolves are in the same boat. I am wondering if they uploaded the wrong files.